When guns become nothing more than steel and wood clubs?

[Redhand]

I am presently at a state of mind that I will not purchase anymore firearms or ammunition because of the hyper inflated prices on both. This mania is crazy and un-called for in my opinion and I know about opinions. I can excuse the S&D issues for military style ammo because our military is expending it, but the availability of .22, .380, 9mm, .308 and other cal. is outrageous. Someone is going to find themselves with an awful lot of over priced ammo and firearms that they can't get rid of unless its at bargain basement prices. And what are the brokers going to do when they run out of ammo to sell at these ridiculous prices? Go pay hyper-inflated prices to try and re-sale it? When you take all the enjoyment out of collecting and shooting firearms then it will become only a game of survival. And if I have to depend upon my firearms for survival, I will get ammo from whatever source is available, be it given or not given. All is fair in Love and War. Sometimes we are our own worst enemy. Sticks and Stones can break your bones but ill chosen words and actions can suck the marrow out of them. My opinion only.:madsmile::confused::dunno::yikes::surrender: :runaway:

[Mike in NC]

The price of ammo is also driven by a worldwide jump in price of various metals in the commodities markets. Lead, copper, and brass have taken a huge jump in price. China is about the only country world with money to spend and has been on a spending spree buying up metals, access to potential oil fields, etc.

Even without the recent buying frenzy, the price of ammo was steadily climbing. Surplus 223 / 5.56 won't ever be 10 or 15 cents a round again. It is worth too much as scrap for that to happen.

[ScottR]

Redhand. may I ask how old you are and how long you have been shooting?

Scott

[Redhand]

Scott, I've been shooting since I was 8 yrs. old and if my mind still serves me correctly, thats 52 yrs. After I posted today I went out and put 24 rounds of Wolf 9mm down range. I shot 12 rounds at 7 yds and 12 at 15 yds to prepare for qualification tomorrow. I would have ordinarly shot about 50 rds. of quality ammo but due to the insanity in the market, I only shot 24 rounds of non-reloadable ammo. Not to brag but all 24 rds were within a 3" group, at center mass. I'm ready for tomorrow and so is my pistol. I'll fire approx. 50 rounds of Wolf tomorrow. And as far as the price of metal goes, how much metal would it take to make say 50,000 rounds of ammo? And how much would that amt. of metal bring in the scrap market compared to the two months ago prices for a box of ammo? The panty waisted crowd on Wail Street almost took other commodities markets to ruin with their greed and now they are trying to do it to the Firearms market. A gun is useless without bullets and ammo is worthless without guns for their intended purposes, except for the scrape metal value.:madsmile::confused::dunno::eek::surrender:: yikes::bitch:

[Redhand]

And as a side bar, I wished I had those 200-300 rds of 5.56 I expended the last 10 days of May, forty yrs. ago this month. Just think it didn't cost me anything and think what it would be worth today?:madsmile::confused::dunno::yikes::surrender :

[0311Shooter]

So, are you chastising gun owners for the shortages? I don't get it.

I didn't stock up on anything, I always kept what I felt was more than I needed if the SHTF. I WISH I had stocked up more just for the price element. Thought I had a stash of 380 but looked the other day and I only have around 100 rounds.

But, here's the jist. The gun rage is fueled by, what else, president Obammy. One of my best friends had only a .22 before last October. Now he has about 10 milsurp guns and hundreds of rounds of ammo. Multiply that by thousands of other "fear mongers" and you see the situation we are in.

Personally, I am glad. I know we have many, many, many gun owners that we didn't have last year at this time. NRA membership is soaring. It has to be telling them higher up, that this country will not stand by and accept more gun control.

I bet that Obammy is watching, and thinking. Hell, with the situations all over the world, he may be glad to have more Americans "watching his back".

[ScottR]

Are you shooting a 48rnd combat match?

Scott

[Redhand]

Scott, It is a combat or tactical course of fire. I only dropped a few points but for legal reasons I can't give you my score. I did discover something about Wolf 9mm. I was shooting my Ruger SR-9 and could not get the mags to take more than 8 rounds. That really put the pressure on because of having to reload before the next course of fire. When I got home I measured a Wolf round against a UMC 9 mm and found the Wolf bullets were either longer or not seated as deep. The Wolf mikes at 1.175 and the UMC 1.1. You live and learn. I think if I had used the UMC I would have aced it.:madsmile::thdown::thup::beerchug::surrender::y ikes::bash:

[M1Riflenut]

I don't see that the problem is all that bad around here. Yes the shelves are not as stocked up as much as they used to be but the local shops still have ammo. Yes the prices are higher but then so is everything else,like groceries,gas,car parts etc. You can complain about the high ammo prices but its not "just" the ammo,it's anything that is made of metal or transported by truck.
The only thing thats empty around here are the primer shelves,can't seem to be at the right place at the right time for those. Two local dealers tell me they still get some in,just not as much and when they put them out they are gone that same day. I see the local WalMart is thin on ammo but they have also cut way back anyways and got rid of all gun sales in that store. The local gunshops though,they still got ammo. I don't shoot my 380 or 9mm much at all so I have'nt checked prices latey but I will tonight when I stop by the local shop. I always go on thursday or friday nights. I know they have it,just never looked at the price.

[Redhand]

I'm not chastising gunowners. I just believe that there is more too this shortage than is being told. I do blame the dealers in many situations that are taking outrageous advantage of fear mongering. And although the price of most scrape metals have gone up, my question still applies" How would the amount of metal going into producing 50,000 rds of ammunition compare to the amt being scraped and the prices both would realize. I don't care how supply side economics works but there comes a ceiling where guns and ammo are no longer affordable to many people. I glad the sheepole are waking up and purchasing more guns and ammo. But its been my experience that guns and bullets that aren't being used are useless. Practice makes perfect but if you can't afford to practice then you become rusty like your firearms will do. And it a practical,tactical situation you should ask yourself, How many guns and how much ammo can I feasibily carry. I know you have to equip your family and close friends for TSHF situations but they also need to practice. My take on this whole situation is to take a moratorium on buying for about a month and see what happens. Prices will come down, supplies will come up and we will have more proficent riflemen ready for the bad times. Prefacing that statement with the idea that if this is a Gruber-in-mint backdoor approach to making firearms useless without outright banning them.:madsmile::beerchug::dancingbanana::dunno::yi kes::surrender::runaway:

[John Kepler]

And any competition shooter will tell you that dry-fire practice is actually more beneficial than live-fire....so what's the problem?

As for the metal....raw material costs are always at the "head-end" of any manufacturing operation and have a disproportionate effect on the final cost of the item. The scrap price (please note the correct spelling) of any metal is not necessarily reflective of the cost of virgin alloy...you ain't buying a coil of AISI 1110 for the same price as #2 Bundle!

[John Sukey]

Not to worry redhand, even if you NEVER purchase any more firearms or ammunition, NOBODY IS GOING TO NOTICE! ;)

I am not puirchasing any firearms for one simple reason, I have run out of room!:D

[Dave in Pa]

Okay,interesting statement, "but for legal reasons I can't give you my score",care to elaborate.

[0311Shooter]

Probably didn't "Qualify".

[Festus]

Probably didn't "Qualify".

I'm guessing it may be same way I used to run a firearms program.You got a pass or fail entered in the records.This was for the benefit of shysters,internal affairs,news media,or anybody else who thought they might be privy to firearms scores for whatever reason. If an actual numerical score is entered it can be subpoenaed. A"fail" also meant you couldn't carry until you qualified.
If this is not what he meant then I typed a bunch of stuff for nothing.
Festus

[Redhand]

Festus, you win the battle of wits. O311shooter you lose big time. By the way does your handle have anything to do with your m.o.s? I use to shoot on the H.P circuit and know quiet well how dry firing helps you with the fundamentals, but not quite the same as live fire. I love to shoot and shoot often and can usually hit what I'm aiming at in most circumstances. I just hate that I can't shoot as often now due to the expense. I don't need anymore firearms all though there are lots of examples I would probably purchase if the price is right. And as far as the metals commodities markets go, they are down now. I still say that the amount of metal it would take to produce 50,000 rounds of most cal. is minimal compared to the actual manufacturing cost. Lets use .22 l.r as an example. Everything these days is based upon Fear mongering and I would take this opportunity to say " I ain't SKEARED" Did I spell that right?:madsmile::madsmile::madsmile::beerchug::yik es::surrender::bash::runaway:

[John Kepler]

"I ain't SKEARED" Did I spell that right?"

According to Nathan Bedford Forrest and Joel Chandler Harris, no....it's "skeered".

[DaveHH]

There is a worldwide recession The demand is down, copper is about half what it was in the peak 2007 price. This is something else: either a move to increase price or pressure to reduce sales by the government. Probably driven by the anti-lead situation. Would you make long term contracts for lead when it might be outlawed by the dopes in congress? The Army can buy from Britain, Belgium, Israel, their demands can be met here with ease. It is so easy to say that we are all hoarding it.

[BudT]

Redhand,

I have spent quiet a lot of time talking to my local dealer and he assures me that there are more dealers participating in this ammo/component situation than not. HTH

Regards

BudT

[RED]

There is only one plausible explanation for what is happening and raw material availability is NOT it. Fools going out and buying huge amounts of ammo and reloading supplies that they will never use is the only reason for the shortages. Guys that buy bargains and stock up when prices are cheap have not been in the market for nearly a year. There aren't any bargains out there...

You can't blame it on Obammy either. He has done zip, nada, zero to cause this situation.

"Not too bad" in your area... I don't know where you live (Kumbayah land?) but when large wholesale distributors like Graf & Sons, Midway Arms, and others have ZERO primers in stock, that is bad. I haven't seen a 1 lb jug of Unique for sale in months I use about 1 lb every 3-4 years and just happens this is the year. If you think buying 30,000 rounds of ammo when you don't even shoot is a brilliant move... I'm sorry YOU are the problem.

If everybody that could, would buy 500 lbs of chicken because it is on sale or 1,000 lbs of rice (yes you have that right), you are an idiot and I wouldn't brag about it!
:bitch: