Single Shot Target Pistol

[usmc69]

A friend runs the local gun shop. He took in a old target pistol in trade. It appears to be a copy of a Remington Rolling Block. It has double set triggers, the barrel is 9 3/4 inches long, has adjustable sights (the front is windage adjustable and the rear is elevation adjustable) and the stock appears to be walnut. We are guessing it is chambered for .44 Russian (barrel is 44 cal and a .44 Special lacks about a 1/16 or so from chambering. The only markings I can see are a crown over JA&C; a Belgium oblisk proof mark, a British proof mark(E/LG/star); and what looks to be French (star over something-obscured by the stock). No caliber marking at all. Any guesses would be welcome or directions to a site where I could find out some info.

Thanks,
AJ

[Patrick Chadwick]

Remington did indeed make a 1901 Rolling Block Target Pistol (see Flayderman`s Guide to Antique American Firearms). And they did indeed make them in, among other calibers, .44 S & W. However, from what follows, you will understand that I am not sure if your example is actuallya Remington product.
Unfortunately you did not say WHERE the markings are, hence my use of the word "typically" below.

Markings: Belgian obelisk proof mark is the "perron", the old city seal of Liege, where Belgian guns and barrels were proofed. Typically found on the chamber/action body.

E/LG/star is NOT British. It is the Belgian proof mark, the letters ELG being derived from Epreuve Liege (Liege proof). The form E over LG over star, all in an oval, is in fact a black-powder proof mark for a standard load. Typically found on the barrel. If there was a crown above the oval his would indicate a proof with an excess load. Used since 1811, so not much help with dating.

Crown over JA&C is most likley the manufacture's initials, JA&C(ompagnie).
Compagnie is otherwise usually abbreviated to Cie (similar to English Co.)
There was a complete dynasty in 19th century Liege with the name Ancion, stretching from 1789 to 1935.

In 1866 JULES and ALFRED ancion set up J. Ancion & Cie, so my guess is:
A Belgian copy of the Remington Rolling Block Target pistol, probably caliber .44 S & W, made post-1866 by a reputable firm, and therefore quite possibly under license from Remington.

[usmc69]

Remington did indeed make a 1901 Rolling Block Target Pistol (see Flayderman`s Guide to Antique American Firearms). And they did indeed make them in, among other calibers, .44 S & W. However, from what follows, you will understand that I am not sure if your example is actuallya Remington product.
Unfortunately you did not say WHERE the markings are, hence my use of the word "typically" below.

Markings: Belgian obelisk proof mark is the "perron", the old city seal of Liege, where Belgian guns and barrels were proofed. Typically found on the chamber/action body.

E/LG/star is NOT British. It is the Belgian proof mark, the letters ELG being derived from Epreuve Liege (Liege proof). The form E over LG over star, all in an oval, is in fact a black-powder proof mark for a standard load. Typically found on the barrel. If there was a crown above the oval his would indicate a proof with an excess load. Used since 1811, so not much help with dating.

Crown over JA&C is most likley the manufacture's initials, JA&C(ompagnie).
Compagnie is otherwise usually abbreviated to Cie (similar to English Co.)
There was a complete dynasty in 19th century Liege with the name Ancion, stretching from 1789 to 1935.

In 1866 JULES and ALFRED ancion set up J. Ancion & Cie, so my guess is:
A Belgian copy of the Remington Rolling Block Target pistol, probably caliber .44 S & W, made post-1866 by a reputable firm, and therefore quite possibly under license from Remington.

The markings are at the left rear of the barrel/chamber area, just above the wood.

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n1/usmc690303/SP1.jpg

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n1/usmc690303/SP3.jpg

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n1/usmc690303/SP4.jpg

[usmc69]

Shot a couple of more pictures.

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n1/usmc690303/RB4.jpg

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n1/usmc690303/RB5.jpg

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n1/usmc690303/RB9.jpg

[Patrick Chadwick]

Hving seen the photos, it is clear that the pistol is not a copy of the Remington R-B target pistol, but either a pistol built around a R-B action OR possibly a center-fire percussion target pistol that was converted. Either way, it is a fine looking piece made by a prominent dynasty of Liege gunsmiths (see Stöckel).

Features common to percussion target pistols of the time are: barrel is octagonal over full length, double set trigger, percussion style wood encloses the action, decorative boss on the butt. On percussion pistols this was often hinged, with a small compartment behind in which one could keep spare percussion caps (I have one). So if there is indeed a butt trap behind the boss, that would indicate a conversion, as a cartridge pistol would not need a butt trap. Check it out.

I am slightly bothered by the adjustable rear sight, which appears to have an unnecessarily large range of adjustment for a pistol, and looks very much like a type of sight found on early black powder cartridge rifles.This is unusual enough to warrant careful investigation.

Patrick

[Teleoceras]

Usmc69:

Neat looking pistol! It would be interesting to know the history behind it.

Thanks for sharing the photos.:beerchug: