Model 12

[leswad]

Hey Guys (new to the forum), I was wondering if I could get a little help on a model 12 trench gun? A few years ago I bought a Remington Model 11 for $100 and then found out after the fact it was a US marked riot gun... It is not in the greatest of shape, so don't get too jealous. After that, I started to researching model 1897's and fell in love with the weapon. During this research, i found a Model 12 trench gun on a reputable Gun auction house. Anyway I bought the gun, and it has finally gotten here. I wanted to get your opinions to see if this gun looks correct (SN 9605XX 1943):

It is an arsenol refinish, and the previous owner added a pachmyer recoil pad:mad:... There is no cartouche, as I think it was sanded off during the refinish process, and if it is a fake, the recoil pad would not have been added? It was missing the swivel, so I purchased a replacement but still need a swivel for the Bayonet lug.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm190/leswad/DSC_0090.jpg?t=1248470222

The barrel is marked 42, but the parkerizing is a little darker than the receiver. Also, above the loading port it is stamped with a "W"

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm190/leswad/DSC_0086.jpg?t=1248470491
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm190/leswad/DSC_0087.jpg?t=1248470538
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm190/leswad/DSC_0088.jpg?t=1248470583
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm190/leswad/DSC_0089.jpg?t=1248470758
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm190/leswad/DSC_0091.jpg?t=1248470882
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm190/leswad/DSC_0093.jpg?t=1248470925

Thanks for your opinions!

Leswad

[Tom Doniphon]

Hello, leswad.

The gun was originally a riot gun that has been converted to a trench gun. The Govt' did do some of these riot to trench gun conversions.

If you look at the underside of the barrel just behind the bayonet adaptor, you can see the barrel band for the riot gun takedown lever. Model 12 trench gun barrels don't have this barrel band on them.

Also, the magazine tube has an xtra large hole in it for the riot gun takedown lever. Magazine tubes on original Model 12 trench guns don't have the takedown lever hole.

The gun would have originally had a blue finish. And, the parkerized "W" marked bayonet adaptor is only original to the very late made parkerized Model 12 trench guns.

Because of the smaller diameter of the riot gun barrel, a sleeve had to be added to the muzzle end of the barrel in order to make the bayonet adaptor fit properly. See if you can see this sleeve.

[leswad]

Tom, do you think that conversion would have taken place at the Arsenal? Kind of makes sense to me if it is a low SN and gets refinished with the later shield. I did check the end of the barrel and it does have a sleeve of which I thought that was a part of shield.

[Tom Doniphon]

Yes, it probably is an arsenal conversion.

Many of the Military Model 12 riot guns were converted to trench guns after the War. The arsenals that converted them used the sleeve on the barrel. Rock Island Arsenal was one of the facilities that did the conversions, and the stock on your shotgun is Rock Island Arsenal marked. Perhaps RIA did the conversion.

[leswad]

That is exactly what I wanted to hear! Thanks! Here is the cool part about this gun:

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm190/leswad/DSC_0092.jpg?t=1248502458

It served it's second life protecting for the US Atomic Energy Commision, Nevada Test Site.

[Dave.S]

Did all the trenchguns get the us ordinance bomb markings?Mine doesnt have them?Dave

[Derrick R.]

Dave what is the serial number of your gun ? Would be interested in a picture or two also. Thanks Derrick

[Sgt Rock]

Who cares if it is rebuilt, a converted riot or what?! That USAEC property tag trumps all that. I remember a bunch of these shotguns being advertised in SGN, there was a dealer in Vegas that had riot and trench guns from and AEC facility for sale. All marked exactly like this one. Wish I had bought them all, but no, being the purist collector I only wanted original finish, original configuration shotguns for my collection. Nice find. Let me know when you want to sell it!

[leswad]

Who cares if it is rebuilt, a converted riot or what?! That USAEC property tag trumps all that. I remember a bunch of these shotguns being advertised in SGN, there was a dealer in Vegas that had riot and trench guns from and AEC facility for sale. All marked exactly like this one. Wish I had bought them all, but no, being the purist collector I only wanted original finish, original configuration shotguns for my collection. Nice find. Let me know when you want to sell it!

That is exactly what I was thinking when I bought it.... Unfortunately, this weapon cost me an arm and a leg. Now I have to find a Model 97.

[Rob13]

USAEC, That reminds me of something I wrote a long time ago about Carbines after seeing a bunch of troops in battle gear with their weapons and taking part in nuclear bomb tests in Nevada. My question was, and also for this shotgun now, "Have you ever checked it for radioactivity?" I would always wonder!
I was stationed on Johnston Island right after nuclear testban and while there, received probably a goodly dose of radiation from contaminated earth from previous dud missle launchs (with nuke warhead on top).

[leswad]

USAEC, That reminds me of something I wrote a long time ago about Carbines after seeing a bunch of troops in battle gear with their weapons and taking part in nuclear bomb tests in Nevada. My question was, and also for this shotgun now, "Have you ever checked it for radioactivity?" I would always wonder!
I was stationed on Johnston Island right after nuclear testban and while there, received probably a goodly dose of radiation from contaminated earth from previous dud missle launchs (with nuke warhead on top).

I have not even thought of that! Unfortunately I am lacking the Geiger counter to check it.