New Long Branch No.4 Mk.1*, a few questions

[kar98k]

ok, well first and foremost hello all. i recently picked up a Canadian Long Branch No.4 Mk.1*. as you can tell by my username, Enfields aren't exactly my area of expertise. i have a few questions about it.

the 2 wooden pins through the stock and the fact that most of the metal appears to have been painted black at one point i was told mean it was sent to India after the war. i assume that's why it has an SMLE butt plate on it as well? (as you can see in the pics i posted).

on the left side just below the safety is a " '46". i assume this is the year it was re-aresenalled? would Canada have done this or would it have been India? the only marking i can find on the stock is a large "G" right in front of the trigger guard. am i correct in assuming this is a replacement stock?

here are the pics:

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i appreciate any and all help on this as i am really not knowledgeable in Enfields. thanks guys

[Amatikulu]

I modified your post to display the pics. I don't think those wood dowels were inserted in India - their process was to insert a metal wood screw. it looks like a proper armoroer's repair for a split fore stock - the kind of thing Peter Laidler would have done in his apprenticeship :)

[kar98k]

I modified your post to display the pics. I don't think those wood dowels were inserted in India - their process was to insert a metal wood screw. it looks like a proper armoroer's repair for a split fore stock - the kind of thing Peter Laidler would have done in his apprenticeship :)

really? so this doesn't look like an Indian (or worse Paki or Turkish) purchase rifle? :confused:

thanks for the posting help

[limpetmine]

Careful, there, big fellah! :lol: Lots of nice, and interesting rifles have returned via Turkey, India and Pakistan. Just because a rifle saw some use
(or misuse) doesn't diminish what it is (a fine rifle with an interesting history)
:wave:

[jona]

Those wooden pins are a form of bedding. Used extensively by the DCRA and others. This was in the days before acraglass.

[limpetmine]

That was my first thought, but these pins seem to be a little too far forward from where the bedding pins usually go, IIRC.


Those wooden pins are a form of bedding. Used extensively by the DCRA and others. This was in the days before acraglass.

:dunno:

[No4Mk1(T)]

That was my first thought, but these pins seem to be a little too far forward from where the bedding pins usually go, IIRC.



:dunno:
You are correct. The wood pins found on DCRA accurized No.4 rifles are aligned vertically near the back of the forearm roughly in line with the charger bridge. They are pushed through the stock to touch the back of the receiver which stops latteral movement of the receiver within the stock.

[Peter Laidler]

Those oak pegs are just normal Armourers methods of reinforcing a heel or toe patch in the butt (or anywhere come to that.....). The pegs either side of the SCREW, front trigger guard have been inserted to stop a crack spreading from the front of the magazine well up, along the fore-end.

Where we detected a crack, we would spread the crack, squeeze glue into it, then insert the cross screw that you all refer to as 'the ishy screw'. In fact this was a modification formuated by Britain and is incorporated into our EMER's. BUT, it looked unsightly so instead of the screw, we started to insert an oak dowel..... or even a couple, depending on the apparent length of the crack. Hammer it in, leave to dry/cure for 24 hours and make good. It wouldn't crack again, believe me! And those undercut dovetailed and pegged butt patches will last a lifetime

From this Kar98, you can rightly assume that your rifle has been in British service unless you find anything to the contrary

On the matter of the DCRA pins at the REAR of the fore-end, I could be wrong but surely they were there to reinforce the internal patches we used to call 'DRAWER PACHES', the hardwood replacement inserts used to DRAW the fore-end UPWARDS but REARWARDS against the butt socket. That as opposed to preventing the body moving left and right in the fore-end. It'd have to go some to overcome the centreing influence of the knox form/barrel reinforce

[kar98k]

ahh the many mysteries of the Enfield rifles :). thanks for the info

[No4Mk1(T)]

On the matter of the DCRA pins at the REAR of the fore-end, I could be wrong but surely they were there to reinforce the internal patches we used to call 'DRAWER PACHES', the hardwood replacement inserts used to DRAW the fore-end UPWARDS but REARWARDS against the butt socket. That as opposed to preventing the body moving left and right in the fore-end. It'd have to go some to overcome the centreing influence of the knox form/barrel reinforce

Not in this case Peter though your explanation makes perfect sense. The plugs are stacked vertically, about a quarter of an inch apart just below the level of the safety screw near the top edge of the stock on both sides. I would be more accurate to say they are positioned in line about a quarter of the way back between the charger bridge and the back sight mount (if that makes any sense). The reference I have says their sole purpose was to control any shift of the receiver sufficient to upset the bedding. The idea for the plugs was that of veteran Canadian armorer W.O.1 H.L Keech for the 1964 Canadian National Matches.

[krinko]

Undercut and pegged patches are a common feature on rifles in Indian service---the thumb is from a 1966 RFI rebuild of a Savage No4, the patch has the new Indian serial number stamped into it.
The other rifle is a MkI**IP---there is a nicely done transverse peg just forward of the SCREW, etc. (The lower black spot.)

The Indians learned much from the Brits---my friend Divia speaks better BBC English than the BBC.
-----krinko

[limpetmine]

This is a No. 4 Conversion that has the wood dowels, (for target use) as discussed.
This rifle was a predecessor of the L-39 series; if Mr. Laidler has some insight, I'd be an observant listener!



Not in this case Peter though your explanation makes perfect sense. The plugs are stacked vertically, about a quarter of an inch apart just below the level of the safety screw near the top edge of the stock on both sides. I would be more accurate to say they are positioned in line about a quarter of the way back between the charger bridge and the back sight mount (if that makes any sense). The reference I have says their sole purpose was to control any shift of the receiver sufficient to upset the bedding. The idea for the plugs was that of veteran Canadian armorer W.O.1 H.L Keech for the 1964 Canadian National Matches.

[No4Mk1(T)]

Thanks for the photo. In this case the wood dowels shown are far lower on the stock than the one used by the DCRA shooters. I have handled 3 of 4 of the rifles to which I refer and not one has the dowels placed in this manner. The ones shown in these photos are quite obviously the ones to which Peter is referring. Unfortunately I didn’t have a camera handy on the occasions I viewed the rifles however a good photo of the DCRA dowels can be found in the old NRA American Rifleman Reprint “British Enfield Rifles” pg. 18.

[Peter Laidler]

The exact location of the hardwood dowels that hold the draws patches securely in place are fully illustrated in the photos within an article I wrote to show how it was done.

Any pegs used to force the rifle body left or right within the fore-end will have to be placed within .45" of the of the TOP rear part of the fore-end. Any lower than this and they'll be redundant because that's the total depth of the body side within the fore-end.

Quite how successful such pegs would be is a matter of conjecture, BUT, consider that the wood at that area is a max of .2" thickness! I think I'd have glued in long hardwood inserts along the inner length and filed them to an exact fit.

I know, I know...... some of you naughty cynics are going to ask why all these niceties never improved a properly fitted No4T