Is this a real Winchester Type III "EW" safety?

[paroikoi]

Hi Guys,
Does this seem authentic to you? I'd like to buy it if it seems okay.

http://207.98.189.235/safety/pix927420281.jpg
http://207.98.189.235/safety/pix927420390.jpg
http://207.98.189.235/safety/pix927420500.jpg

Thanks,
Josh

[paroikoi]

I'm guessing it is a fake, but just thought I'd ask for other opinions...

Thanks,
Josh

[dbarn]

Josh,

If you can take some macro closeup shots of the "EW" marking and opposite end, it would help.

BTW I will email photos full size tonight on the flip sight.

Based on current photos, I'm not seeing what I'm looking for and would say fake.

[JimF4M1s]

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg8/jimf4m1s/ewsafety005.jpg



http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg8/jimf4m1s/ewsafety003.jpg

[paroikoi]

Hi folks,
Thanks a lot. Here are some more photos:

http://207.98.189.235/safety/1.jpg
http://207.98.189.235/safety/2.jpg
http://207.98.189.235/safety/3.jpg
http://207.98.189.235/safety/4.jpg
http://207.98.189.235/safety/5.jpg

I'd say fake, too, but the "EW" looks the same to my eyes as the one above. Only the finish looks suspicious.

Josh

[paroikoi]

The seller says I can buy it, take macro photos, post them here to get opinions, and return it for a full refund minus shipping both ways if I am not 100% happy. I don't think I have a whole lot to lose. Thoughts?

Thanks,
Josh

[painter777]

Josh,
By chalking the markings, they make the letters look wider.
I think what the guys are looking for are any signs of 1940's style mill working. From what I can see.....the letters and placement of the ( " ) markings seem to look legit.
The "EW" marking is harder to look over when pictured from the side or angle.
The finish color is hard to make out from picture, it always is.
Your safety shows little use. The finish also appears to be dark, darker than most USGI finishes and compared to known EW safeties.
It's very possible it was re-finished while in the hands of another country, the lend lease, or by a importer before being sold.

I'm including some pictures here of 2 different "EW" marked safeties. I've seen what appears to be three types of markings on these over the years. All found on original "EW" safeties.
The impression left by a newer stamp vs an older one surely varied. They didn't use just 1 "EW" stamp to mark all those safeties. Was the part always stamped with the same amount of force?
I can't say.
One version looks as though the W is wider at the top.
Another shows the middle leg of the E extending farther to the right.
The 3rd, like JimF's....has the letters closer at the top. Note on his picture that the top leg of the E nearly touches the top left leg of the W.
I've seen them with fairly heavy milling scars and others barely showing signs of milling. The final prep before applying a finish could answer that. Winchester IMHO had some lack luster milling styles.... some almost to the point of being sloppy. Not in fit, but the milling varied greatly. Maybe operator fault.....or production style.

This first one is on the 5,573,xxx that my Father brought home from the Philippines. It is a original carbine. The letters have grease in them. I just wiped it clean enough to get a decent picture. The W is the type that looks to be narrower at the top.....

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e227/Painter8439/DSC05275.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e227/Painter8439/DSC05274.jpg

This one is on a 5,811,xxx. The W is the type that looks finer and wider at the top....

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e227/Painter8439/DSC05295.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e227/Painter8439/DSC05288.jpg

There's one thing I haven't seen the repro guys catch yet. It's not been mentioned here.

Cheers
Charlie-painter777

[paroikoi]

Thanks, Charlie. Very informative post. I appreciate it.

I bought the part. I'll post macro photos once I receive it.

Josh

[imarangemaster]

The EW I had kicking around that I just put on my Underwood is fairly light compared to the one in question. There is a noticeable difference between mine and the questioned one, though, that I won't say on the list. Mine looks like Painter's

[ScottR]

Some things to remember-
"EW" was made by Eaton Pond for Winchester.
SW was made by Sargent Co. for Winchester.
Operator.
New tooling Vs tooling that has been is use for a while.
These parts were taken from a Rebuilt carbine most likely, if you bought a Inland and it has a "EW" safety are you going to keep it on your Inland or put it on your Winchester?
As Charlie pointed out about finishes-
Original
light grey repark.
Medium grey repark
Dark repark
CMP Italian carbines, dark black finish.
CMP Bavarian/Austrian reblued parts.
And the others that I missed.
All the marked faked safeties I have seen are pretty crude and easy to spot.

Scott











Scott

[painter777]

Hi ScottR,
I should have added that the safeties for Winchester were made by Sub-Contractors. Eaton Pond for the "EW" marked ones and Sargent Co. for the SW marked ones. Also should have added that "EW" marked safeties were also used in the rotary or flip type IV style late into Winchesters production, according to Riesch. I personally haven't seen a flip safety marked "EW".

When I stated.....
" Winchester IMHO had some lack luster milling styles.... some almost to the point of being sloppy. Not in fit, but the milling varied greatly"
I had strayed from the markings of the safeties and was just throwing out a personal opinion about Winchesters milling work.
I should have clarified that in my post.

Thanks for the additional info.
As always your input is helpful and greatly appreciated.

Regards
Charlie-painter777

[imarangemaster]

Painter, is this what you are talking about with mill marks? I got this safety off of a mixmaster NPM I had about 10 years ago. When I traded off the NPM, I kept the safety.

PS it is the only early part I own!

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg134/imarangemaster/ew-1.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg134/imarangemaster/ew-2.jpg

[painter777]

As far as saying sloppy, I meant the overall milling like on the receivers, trigger housings, slides... etc.
Your EW is a real one. They were cut and lightly ground on the ends after the internal cuts were down. This is just a quick overview of the steps.

Gotta get to work.
See you Sat morn guys.....

Charlie

P.S. It's not really a early part...per say....sorry.

[ScottR]

I think I have a pic of a EW flip safety, will have to look for it.

Scott

[BrianQ]

Also should have added that "EW" marked safeties were also used in the rotary or flip type IV style late into Winchesters production, according to Riesch. I personally haven't seen a flip safety marked "EW".



They are marked E.W.

[painter777]

Brian,
I'd like to personally take this time to say Thank You on your 'Outstanding Articles' in the last couple CC Newsletters about the late 6 and 7 mil Winchesters.
Now that I think about it, I recall your picture showing the EW marked rotary safety.
Please pass along some Thanks to Newscotlander also.
We sure miss his input here on this forum.
Both of you deserve credit for the hard work put into these articles.
You've shown again that the newsletter is priceless.

Sincerely
Charlie

[Bill Hollinger]

There does not look to be any lateral wear at either end of the barrels of the safety. Like it is either new or refinished. Even when there is little to no wear on an original there are signed of the safety being pushed in and out of the trigger housing and wear in the detent grooves where the plunger rubbed back and forth as the safety was pushed in and out.

Just by looking at the finish and the "EW" I would be very suspicious of it as being real.