Some undiscovered cases

[Steve]

that I did not realize that I had. they are 1969 IVI surplus cases, including but not seen in this pic 60 rds of unfired 1969. Not valuable, but throwbacks to a time when you could get this sort of thing from CDN businesses.

What ever happened to Altantic Ordnance?

http://www3.sympatico.ca/shooters/IVI_cases2.JPG

[Gothmog]

Very nice ... how many do you have and do you have some pet loads in mind?

AO closed down awhile ago IIRC.

[bearhunter]

It's funny that you should show those cases, other than that they look to be factory fresh, you're right not unusal. I mentioned that your pic is funny because I found a case of fired IVI dated 79, in the trunk of an old car while I was hunting today. No cartons other than the wire wrapped, gov't marked box listing the container as explosives, 7.62, 1120 rounds in 20 round cartons. There were 900+ cases in the box along with 70 empty 7.62x51 blank cases stamped 65. Nice find. I used to use the blank cases to make 6.5x55 cases, when you could buy the rifles but only corrosive ammo fron International Firearms. The long necks made it a snap to cut to length and fireform with compressed oatmeal over the powder charge. There were also a bunch of empty MREs in the trunk as well as a few other bits of garbage, I guess the militia or whomever wanted to go home early. Unusual though, I thought that the brass had to be accounted for?

[Claven2]

I've got a whack of that brass too :) Technically, IVI ammo is not supposed to be released onto the surplus market, but back in the day when the military supported the shooting community more, lots used to be released to clubs for competition. As these clubs shut down or fell on hard times, the IVI ammo began appearing on the secondary market and gunshow circuit. that's how I got mine :)

The IVI 7.62 is great brass in all the lots I've had. I don't think I've worn any out yet, in fact. Some of it has dozens of reloads on it, neck sized only.

Some of the late production IVI and Dominion .303 brass though, didn;t pass muster very well - some of it giving neck splits on first or second firing! I think it depends on the lots though. The bad .303 brass is usually from 1970's lots when the tooling was getting long in the tooth.

[Stevo]

The new IVI .303 brass is very good stuff. You just need to find it.

[Claven2]

Yeah, well, not all of us can join the Canadian Rangers just to collect good brass... ;)

[Steve]

I cannot remember which year it was, but up until the late 70s or early 80s you could buy unfired surplus overrruns and empty brass from IVI on the CDN market. One of the Liberal things was to stop national sales of surplus stocks. Almost everyone had this stuff.

The last place that I was aware of that sold this and other cals with Atlantic Ordnance in Fredicton. Nowadays, the only way to obtain spent brass is to bid on individual lots of it through Crown Assets. Of course, they had overruns of unfired IVI ammunition in the States recently. Hypocritical really. You could go across the border and bring it back legally but they would sell it via a CDN distribution network.

IVI is US owned now so maybe they can work a deal similar to Indian reservation sales. We go across the border and buy stuff cheaper in the south and then bring it back.

The late 90s saw new and better equipment (resulting from ISO certifications). I did a number of tests on 303/7.62 brass. Very consistent. For a short while the service was buying Federal 303 British 180 gr. SP. Some of the est results are at my site.

[tiriaq]

The Rangers in Nunavut were being issued Winchester commercial 180gr softpoint for a while.

[Stevo]

The oldest date I've seen on the IVI issue .303 is '96 or '97, ball and SP both.

Given that I've only been with the program for the last 5 years, I can't say when the IVI was introduced, only that it's all we've ever been issued.

[Steve]

They have always issued IVI except when it was temporarily not available. Here's a peek at 2 lots of IVI cases.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/shooters/IVI.htm

http://www3.sympatico.ca/shooters/sp303box.GIF...http://www3.sympatico.ca/shooters/ball303box.GIF

[Max Power]

.that makes a millitary cartridge collector like me cry. any boxes to spare?

[Stevo]

.that makes a millitary cartridge collector like me cry. any boxes to spare?

Empty or full? Empty's no problem. Full is frowned upon.;)

[Max Power]

well, i like the boxes,,,,,5 in a stipper for the collection, from as many diff years as i can find, is what i like

[Stevo]

well, i like the boxes,,,,,5 in a stipper for the collection, from as many diff years as i can find, is what i like

Stipper? PM me your address and I'll mail you some empty boxes for your collection.

[Claven2]

He means CHARGER ;) Alot of ppl call them stipper clips, but I consider those to be an implement to hold tasses on the body parts of various exotic dancers.

Rifle magazines are topped up with CHARGERS ;)

I don;t expect everyone to see things my wy, or course, but you'll never see me refer to anything here as a "stripper clip" ;)

[markw76]

Stripper clip is the common term down here. Sometimes the Guide that is used to load magazines out of the rifle is called the Charger, but I'm not sure that is the correct usage either. I ran across a small lot of IVI 7.62 NATO cases back in the 80s, after I bought my first rifle, an M1A. Took awhile to find out where it was from, and still don't know how it got to that gunstore. Most of what was common then was RA, WCC, and LC brass, much of it ruined after being fired in M60s. Lucky to get a single reload before chucking them for scrap. I later ran across a drum of LC Match brass once-fired in m14s. I bought the whole thing and haven't gone through it all yet. I'm not a competitive shooter so my ammo lasts awhile. With neck annealing after 5 reloads I can get 10+ since I'm not a "max load" guy.

[green]

IIRC IVI started prodn of .303" Ball Mk8z in 1982.

[Garand]

Frankly as a Retired CF Ammunition Technician, I was never crazy about the quality of IVI ammo produced during the early 90's. This included the Cartridge .303 Ball, Mk 8 & Mk 8z (Cdn). I issued a number of rounds to both the Rangers, Cadets and the DCRA during that period. The CF technical orders on the ammo indicate that "The Cartridge case is crimped into the cannelure during assembly". Its my personal belief that it was a **** poor crimp. During 1 DCRA match I attended, it was fed through a 73 year old (at the time) Lewis gun and I witnessed multiple projectile separate from the cartridge case prior the round being chambered into the gun. I also had a number of rounds returned to me by the Cadets, where the bullets was pushed back into cartridge case. This never happened with 1944 DA ball ammo when I issued it. I tried reloading the empty brass and had problems with very soft primer pockets that didn't hold the primer in place after 2-3 reloads. The Forces made a wise decision when they started ordering their .303 ball from Winchester in my opinion.

[Stevo]

The Forces made a wise decision when they started ordering their .303 ball from Winchester in my opinion.

What period did they use Winchester .303? All our .303 is IVI now.

[tiriaq]

The only Winchester made Ranger issue ammunition that I've seen was softpoint. Standard commercial packaging. This was in the Arctic, and the game management folks prefer that the Rangers be issued softpoint, because most of the ammunition is expended for hunting purposes. The Rangers themselves generally prefer hardpoint, because they consider it superior for marine mammals.

[Stevo]

We're issued both IVI Ball and SP.

[Claven2]

C'mon Stevo... Fess up. We all know you're just a CFR groupie who shows up at field events to take pics for the local college newspaper... ;)

[Stevo]

C'mon Stevo... Fess up. We all know you're just a CFR groupie who shows up at field events to take pics for the local college newspaper... ;)

CFR? Canadian Finals Rodeo?

Yeah, I just freeze my nuts off so I can hang around with old guys in red sweatshirts.:lol:

We don't have a local college newspaper either.;)

[Claven2]

CFR = Canadian Forces Rangers ;)

C'mon Stevo... where's your sense of humor???

[Stevo]

Note the "laughing" icon.:) If I didn't have an excellent sense of humour, I couldn't be a Ranger.:thup: