Jap Captured 1941 Johnson for sale

[Robert H]

Gentlemen, I have a question of value and best auction site to use.

Due to current circumstances, sadly, I will be selling my 1941 Johnson Rifle and most of my WW2 collection.

To view my collection, follow this link to Robert’s Collection (http://s236.photobucket.com/albums/ff87/ww2guns/) and use “collector” as the password. Once there, select an album on the left hand side and then the sub album. I am not selling any of my class 3 items. Thank you, Bob

The Johnson is serial #15** no letter prefix and according to Bruce Canfield it would have been in the first shipment of 5,000 shipped to the Dutch East Indies which are the ones that were captured by the Japanese and later recaptured by the Allis during WW2.

My rifle looks exactly like the rifle on the front of the Johnson book. The finish, stock and condition are nearly indistinguishable from the rifle on the book cover. They literally look like twins.

It has the original barrel (dark inside) but I have a new Joseph Scott barrel that will be included.

Years ago I purchased several NOS complete rotary magazines (100% perfect original finish) from John Darling and installed one onto this rifle but will include the original complete magazine which is in 50% finish condition (sweaty palms affected finish).

The rifle has a John Darling stock on it and is absolutely beautiful but I will also include the original stock (not a Winfield) that is broken.

I also purchased a new old stock butt plate from John to really make the rifle look perfect.

My question are; what’s it worth and where is the best site (i.e. Gunbroker, Auction Arms etc.) to sell it? Have any of you tried Gunrunner Auctions?

I also have what maybe the last NOS (100% perfect original condition) magazine assembly and 2 VGC bayonets and sheaths that I will be selling separately. Any suggestions on values would also be much appreciated.

Thank you and I appreciate any information or advice. Bob

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff87/ww2guns/WW2%20Battle%20Rifles/1941%20Johnson%20Rifle/A-1.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff87/ww2guns/WW2%20Battle%20Rifles/1941%20Johnson%20Rifle/C-1.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff87/ww2guns/WW2%20Battle%20Rifles/1941%20Johnson%20Rifle/B-1.jpg

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff87/ww2guns/WW2%20Battle%20Rifles/1941%20Johnson%20Rifle/JohnsonRifleAccessories.jpg

[Bob K]

Between gunbroker and auction arms; I'd go with gunbroker. I'm not familiar with gunrunner auctions. As to value, I don't know. I don't follow Johnsons.
I can give you info on the para knives though.
Are you selling everything but the class 3 weapons?

[Robert H]

Between gunbroker and auction arms; I'd go with gunbroker. I'm not familiar with gunrunner auctions. As to value, I don't know. I don't follow Johnsons.
I can give you info on the para knives though.
Are you selling everything but the class 3 weapons?

I won't be selling everything just most of everything. I will be keeping the SS Lugar & holster, Radom & holster, the Colts, my unfired US&S 1911A1, M1 Garand and a couple of boxes of the shotgun ammo. Most everything else is for sale. I’ll go ahead and delete the photos of the stuff I’m going to keep. Everything including the accessories shown in photos will be for sale.

I am a member of the Ohio Gun Collectors Association and have always gone to larger gun shows like Louisville but I haven't been able to go in the past 2 years. That's why I'm asking about current values.

Since I’m out of touch with current values, I do intend to sell everything at auction. However, if anyone is interested in any particular piece of my collection, let me know and I will inform you when & where I place it up for auction.
Thanks very much for the help guys, Bob

[emmagee1917]

...I'd be interested in the 38spl tracer and the navy ammo pouch.
Chris

[Robert H]

...I'd be interested in the 38spl tracer and the navy ammo pouch.
Chris

Thanks Chris, I will PM you the info when & where they will auction. Kindly, Bob

[Bob K]

Robert,
I sent you a PM

[Robert H]

Robert,
I sent you a PM

Hi Bob, thanks for the info. I changed the title of the photo to reflect the German para is a repro. The other, I'm looking for the original photo I took to replace the one with the incorporated text.

Looks like I may have been had. For my education, what should I look at to verify the German para knife is or isn't a repro? It has the stampings on the awe blade.

What did the US para knives from WW2 look like? Weren’t the orange plastic handles used at all in WW2? Thanks again, Bob

[Bob K]

Bob,
The dead give-away on the German para is the copper rivets.Also, on real takedowns, the individual parts are numbered.
The orange switchblade is a MC-1 and was made by 3 different makers. In WWII, they used the M2 switchblade which was made by Schrade and did not have a shroud cutter.They had either black or brown handles that were made of plastic(maybe bakelite) or steel.

[Brian Alpert]

What you have is a nicely restored JSAR with lesser condition original components (stock, magazine, bbl.) included. This puts the rifle in the $4000 range. There are currently 9 JSARs of varying values on Gunbroker with very little interest judging from the lack of bids. Gunrunner Auctions has generally done well with JSARs. Indeed, a few years ago they had the record of $7700. Since that time, it has been surpassed so the current record is somewhere around $8800. As one who kinda deals in JSARs, I can tell you they are not selling now and it is a good time to buy.

[Robert H]

Bob,
The dead give-away on the German para is the copper rivets.Also, on real takedowns, the individual parts are numbered.
The orange switchblade is a MC-1 and was made by 3 different makers. In WWII, they used the M2 switchblade which was made by Schrade and did not have a shroud cutter.They had either black or brown handles that were made of plastic(maybe bakelite) or steel.

Bob, very nice collection indeed. Thank you for the information on my knives. The only good thing about my knives is that I bought them years ago so I don’t have a lot of money in them. Thanks so much. Bob

[Robert H]

What you have is a nicely restored JSAR with lesser condition original components (stock, magazine, bbl.) included. This puts the rifle in the $4000 range. There are currently 9 JSARs of varying values on Gunbroker with very little interest judging from the lack of bids. Gunrunner Auctions has generally done well with JSARs. Indeed, a few years ago they had the record of $7700. Since that time, it has been surpassed so the current record is somewhere around $8800. As one who kinda deals in JSARs, I can tell you they are not selling now and it is a good time to buy.

Thank you Brian. I knew about Gunrunners $7,700 Johnson but not the $8,800 rifle. The information you provided was very useful. Thank you very much. Kindly, Bob

[dbarn]

Bob,
The dead give-away on the German para is the copper rivets.Also, on real takedowns, the individual parts are numbered.
The orange switchblade is a MC-1 and was made by 3 different makers. In WWII, they used the M2 switchblade which was made by Schrade and did not have a shroud cutter.They had either black or brown handles that were made of plastic(maybe bakelite) or steel.

With regard to the WWII M2 Schrade switchblade, there is a lot of different information out there. Have heard only the brown handle is actually correct for WWII use and is of bone material, while the black is plastic and is of Korean War vintage. Also only the ones with the bale or loop are supposed original US paratrooper knives while the ones without the bale were for the commercial market.

[targetmaster]

Hello All,

Sorry if this is slightly off topic, but this is about the GUNRUNNER Auctions and I need to get the word out. I won an Auction for a Finnish M-91 in the January 2010 Gunrunner Auction. The auction text said it had a nice shiny bore. I had never seen a bore so full of crud in my entire life. I wore out THREE new bore brushes, and crud was still coming out. After I got it somewhat clean, there was still NO SHINE at all, but the pitting in the lands and grooves was now quite evident.

That is not the worst part. The bolt would not lock up (The spring would not stay compressed when I pushed the bolt knob down). HE SOLD ME A BROKEN GUN. It needed a Trigger, a Trigger Spring/bolt stop(It was snapped in two), the nut for the trigger spring, and the bolt cocking piece/Safety. When I contacted him about it, he said "Send it right back", but that email was sent later in the day when I was off email. The next morning I said I want to send it back, and he told me it was now too late, as he had already paid the consignor, then the consignor DIED..

HE said to send it back to him (At MY Expense) and he would put it in the MARCH auction and try to get "SOME" of my money back. I responded and told him "You can't auction off a broken gun". His response was "Sure I can!" I responded with a list of all the parts it needed to be safe and functional, which I found out by substituting the parts from another Mosin I have until the bolt worked like it should.

I never got a response, but realized that he DELETED MY GUNRUNNER ACCOUNT! What a coward!! When I emailed him about my GUNRUNNER ACCOUNT, his exact reply was "I don't think we should do any more business... The last gun from us was pretty trying for me time-wise..."

SO, beware of GUNRUNNER AUCTIONS. He does not try to operate the guns he sells to make sure the ACTIONS don't have any issues. He also has very little concern, if ANY, for his customers after the sale. If there are any more people out there who have had problems with GUNRUNNER AUCTIONS, please contact me. Thanks for listening!!!

Targetmaster

[BlindHorseRun]

Hi, I have been a military surplus collector for many years, and I just happened to come across this forum. It's good to see so many interesting and informative discussions here. I just thought I would weigh in on Gunrunner Auctions. In the course of doing business with them for over three years, I have bought more than fifteen guns from their auctions. I must say I have always had the opposite experience of the above post when dealing with Scott and his company. I emailed him regarding the above post, and this is what he had to say:
"Hi! A couple of months ago this bidder won a Mosin-Nagant for a little over $100 and contacted me and said he didn't think the bore was correct to description. I said for him to send it right back for a full refund, but that it must be received in same condition as auctioned and the gun must arrive back before I paid the consignors/estates. He said he had completely disassembled the gun, cleaned it and refinished the stock so he did not wish to return it. I said OK. A week later he said he wanted to send the gun back because it was 'worn'. I said I had already paid the consignors, but to remedy the situation I would auction the gun at a future date and send him the money (without deducting the standard 15% commission). He then proceeded to bombard me with a series of CRAZY E-Mails and wanted to contact the owner of this Mosin-Nagant. I said the owner was deceased (his daughter had brought her father's gun collection in for auction to satisfy the probate court), so that wasn't going to happen. At that point he was trying to demand $50, but who knows what he did to the rifle... The gun was altered, we were past the date of payment to the estate, he did not want to auction the rifle and that was that. I don't have a two week inspection period! And yes, we deactivated his account and blocked his E-Mails. End of story."

[Andy]

Oh my. There's always two sides to a story, but sadly we rarely hear them both - and it's usually the vendors who get the short end .........

An informative thread with respect to the blades - thanks.

[enfield303t]

I always remember being taught that there are three sides to a story, YOURS, MINE and the TRUTH.