P-17 (M-17) Enfield

[Transitsc]

Just aquired one of these and will be getting it in a few days. The question I have is how rare are these in full military configuration in vg condition? I haven't seen many and the ones I have seen are usually sporterized. As for its English cousin the P-14 how rare are they, I have a line on one in full military but its a little rough do I or don't I?

[Badger]

We've got a pair of these M1917 rifles (Canadian Marked) that we just haven't had the chance to create entries for in the Milsurp Knowledge Library.

Too many rifles and not enough time..... :lol:

Anyway, they were manufactured by Eddystone, Remington and Winchester.

Here's examples of an Eddystone and a Remington.


Model 1917 U.S. Rifle Serial # 698184 (Mfg by Eddystone in June 1918) ..... 99 pic photo montage ... click here (http://imageevent.com/badgerdog/unitedstatesservicerifles/model1917usrifleeddystone)

"C" Broad Arrow Canadian Military Acceptance Mark.
NSTC (National Service Training Command?) Mark.
COTC (Canadian Officers Training Corps) Mark.

Military service cancellation mark over numeral 24 - possibly 1924?


Model 1917 U.S. Rifle Serial # 324560 (Mfg by Remington in July 1918) ..... 106 pic photo montage ... click here (http://imageevent.com/badgerdog/unitedstatesservicerifles/model1917usrifleremington)

"C" Broad Arrow Canadian Military Acceptance Mark.
Rifle # 73355, assigned to the "RCAF" (Royal Canadian Air Force)

I've also attached a really nice article by Dick Culver ...........

The U.S. Rifle, caliber .30, M1917 by Dick Culver

http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerdog/generalstorage/piclinks/icons/M1917_1_.pdf.jpg (http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerdog/generalstorage/piclinks/M1917_1_.pdf)
(Click PIC to read and save Adobe PDF File)
(Right Click on PIC and choose "Save Target As..." to download PDF file)
PDF file size = 218k

Hope this helps somewhat .... :)

We can always use more help here at MILSURPS.COM, so if anyone wants to volunteer to do a write-up on either (or both) of these pieces, we'd be happy to create an entry in the MKL for them. ;)

Regards,
Badger

[Transitsc]

Thanks for the info Badger. Great article attachment!! If you want help with a write up I could take a crack at it. PM me and let me know what has to be done.

[A square 10]

ive recently posted a breif reflection that i will recap here , i think these often get the bum wrap , they are fine rifles , while not really enfeilds[its a mauser mimic much closer related to the US M1903 which they had also looked closely at as a simple reconfiguration] they were developed there , the Pattern 1913 is sorta the holy grail here and if i had one it would certainly hold the prominent position in my collection ,
since i collect both 'enfields' and 'springfields' i think of the rifle as the link between the two ,
im sure there were those who would have prefered a M1903 in WWI in the field but the M1917 were fielded in greater numbers and soldiered on into WWII and beyond in foreign service ,
they could be a collecting area all their own , with three manufacturers , two countries original service , three commonwealth marks including reworks in the wheedon and US rearsenals , the commonwealth 'F'ine adjustment rear sights and 'T'elescopic trials as well as the postwar foreign service , and then there are the remington commercials and the later foreign contracts , so many rifles-so little time ,

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2007/08/MIKESBAYONETS034-1.jpg
i have three left , winchester M1917 , remington M1917[canadian service marked] , eddystone P1914 [early mkI with the volleys intact] ,

[Transitsc]

Thought I'd post a picture of the new to me P-17 Eddystone I just got in the mail today.

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2007/08/DSC00076-1.jpg
http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2007/08/DSC00075-1.jpg
http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2007/08/DSC00074-1.jpg

Probably the heaviest of all the milsurps I own, but definately a very well made rifle. Can't wait to take it to the range!!

[Stevo]

Looks good. :thup:

[oozlefinch]

im sure there were those who would have prefered a M1903 in WWI in the field but the M1917 were fielded in greater numbers We needed a lot of rifles in hurry in, come Spring of '17, and the Pattern '14 Enfield tooling already up and running was quickly and easily modified to run the M1917.

Alvin York didn't like what he called "the English gun", because he couldn't "lead" with the peep sight, so unlike the buckhorn rear he was used to. He used a borrowed M1903 the day he captured "the whole damned German Army", and the gun writers have had a field day with it ever since. Their preferrance has more to do with "chauvinism" than with any technical or tactical distinction between the two rifles, which has always puzzled me, as the M'03 is, after all, but a "license-built" Mauser.

I'm sure you will enjoy shooting it. I shoot both, and find little to choose between them.

[A square 10]

agreed oozlefinch , M1903 was a Mauser clone [actualy dispute over the 'license thing'and payments occured after wwI] and the P1914/M1917 were developed by enfield designers based on the M1903 ,
the big reason we fielded more 17s than 03s was to do with the low productiuon of the federal arsenals and the high output of the contractors-remington/winchester/eddystone coupled to that need you site so well , this set the stage for the outsourcing to commercial contractors in the WWII and after periods
it was evident to all thus the M1rifle , M1carbine , M1903mod/M1903A3 , into the M14 , M16 , all being contracted out , with the M14 being the last of the rifles produced by govment arsaenals

[MJ1]

Well you have got me motivated. I'm taking an '03 and my '17 out today.
http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif

Would this be a flock of Remington's?
http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif

Not near a nice looking as some pictured here. I like the no buckel slings shown above.

Cheers
MJ

[MJ1]

Found it. Knew I had another one. Well used Win. P-14.
http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif

I have never tried this one.
Cheers
MJ

[oozlefinch]

Would this be a flock of Remington's?
I like the no buckel slings shown above.CheersMJSorry, MJ, but two of anything is only a "brace". To flesh out the "flock" you'll have to get a rolling block Remington in .43 Spanish. Good luck.

The "no buckle" sling, shown above, is appropriate to the P14, but the tan or green web slings are anachronistic on M1917s, having been introduced during WWII for use on the M1. They are, however, much more practical than the leather M1907 sling, and I use them on '03s, '17s and M1s whenever I shoot the High-Power course.

[oozlefinch]

Would this be a flock of Remington's?
I like the no buckel slings shown above.CheersMJSorry, MJ, but two of anything is only a "brace". To flesh out the "flock" you'll have to get a rolling block Remington in .43 Spanish. Good luck.

The "no buckle" sling, shown above, is appropriate to the P14, but the tan or green web slings are anachronistic on M1917s, having been introduced during WWII for use on the M1. They are, however, much more practical than the leather M1907 sling, and I use them on '03s, '17s and M1s whenever I shoot the High-Power course.

[MJ1]

Ok! Ok!
http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif

Cheers
MJ

[Gibbs505]

Just aquired one of these and will be getting it in a few days. The question I have is how rare are these in full military configuration in vg condition? I haven't seen many and the ones I have seen are usually sporterized. As for its English cousin the P-14 how rare are they, I have a line on one in full military but its a little rough do I or don't I?

need more info, get Charles R. Stratton's book, 'The Pattern 194 and U.S. Model 1917 Rifles'.

ISBN 1 882391 29 2