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Cantom
10-23-2006, 04:08 PM
I have a couple of Enfields, a No 4 mk II, and an SMLE, with mega dirty barrels(recent purchases and came that way). I've put like 50 plus patches plus fired some rounds through both this weekend, they are still so filthy. Every patch comes out heavily soiled.

No sign of rust, it just looks like lead and powder fouling.
I have a brass rifle brush, kind of worn, and what I do is cut squares of an old white cotton shirt I use for a rag, soak them in bore cleaner and push them through the bore from the breech. They wind up tightly wrapped around the brush.
I have US Vietnam era bore cleaner in the green plastic bottle and CLP.

Any magical tricks to suggest? My buddy said he once took over 2 months to clean the barrel in a Ross rifle. Alternate cleaning and firing a round, and finally it came clean.

tiriaq
10-23-2006, 06:50 PM
You could try plugging the bore at the muzzle, and filling the bore with one of the copper cutting solvents. Let it soak for a bit. Some of these are quite aggressive, don't leave it to soak too long. Scrub with a brush, patch out, inspect, repeat if necessary.
Another alternative is to use the electronic system. This is described at surplusrifle.com. A really basic rig can be made with a steel welding rod, threaded through a one hole rubber stopper, which plugs the chamber, the other end of the rod stand proud of the muzzle. Put little rubber grommets on the rod so it doesn't touch the bore. Fill the bore with household ammonia. There will be foaming, a funnel pressed over the muzzle is a good idea. Use a couple of flashlight batteries to give 3v. Connect the -ve to the rod, +ve to the barrel. You will see foaming almost instantly. Metal fouling will be plated onto the steel rod, other fouling will be loosened. After 10 or 15 minutes, drain the bore, scrub it thoroughly with a brush, and patch it out. Could be repeated a couple of times. I wouldn't do this if the rifle has a fine bore, but the amount of fouling that is removed is amazing.

Claven2
10-23-2006, 07:49 PM
Have you tried outers foaming bore cleaner yet? I was surprised how well it worked and how much scrubbing it eliminated.

On tough bores, I alternate between three poructs:

1) Outer foaming bore cleaner, let sit in bore for 1 hour, wipe out.
2) hoppes Elite Bore Gel. Let sit overnight then wipe out.
3) Hoppes No.9 Copper formulation. Let sit 2-3 hours and then wipe out.

Repeat as necessary. :)

Cantom
10-24-2006, 06:20 AM
Have you tried outers foaming bore cleaner yet? I was surprised how well it worked and how much scrubbing it eliminated.

On tough bores, I alternate between three poructs:

1) Outer foaming bore cleaner, let sit in bore for 1 hour, wipe out.
2) hoppes Elite Bore Gel. Let sit overnight then wipe out.
3) Hoppes No.9 Copper formulation. Let sit 2-3 hours and then wipe out.

Repeat as necessary. :)

I've been doing some reading tonight. I need to update my technology. I don't even own a bore guide...
I think I'll get those items you mentioned as well as some better brushes and a bore guide. Better to let foaming bore cleaner do it's thing than damage the bore with too many brushings that aren't working anyway. Time for a trip to the gun store.

Dimitri
10-24-2006, 10:55 AM
Cantom,

I do not know how bad your bore is but for most gun cleaning I find cleaning like this helps:

1) Run 2 overly soaked patch of solvent down the bore.
2) Let soak for 5 minutes.
3) Run a copper brush 10 times in the bore.
4) Mop up the mess with 2-4 patches (Depending on how dirty the bore is).

If it needs more cleaning I'll repeat this (but not needed normally as I clean regularly) and it normally turns out completly clean looks shiny. Then I do a light oiling and I'm done. :)

PS. The Hopps Elite stuff is amazing.

Dimitri

Cantom
10-24-2006, 11:57 AM
I've called around and the local shops don't have bore guides. On the net in the US they are high tech and most people wouldn't clean a rifle without them.
Can anyone recommend one that will work well with my No 1 and No 4 Enfields?
One of the issues is some of them are model specific and there isn't a model made for rear locking Enfields.
There are some $5 MTM cheapos on ebay that probably fit everything...

What do you think about the stainless tornado brushes? Do they work well and are they harmful to the Enfield barrel? The copper solvents are known to dissolve the bronze brushes is why I ask...

What do people use to clean their chambers? The Enfield chamber stick with flanellette patch or something a bit more modern?



Cantom,

I do not know how bad your bore is but for most gun cleaning I find cleaning like this helps:

1) Run 2 overly soaked patch of solvent down the bore.
2) Let soak for 5 minutes.
3) Run a copper brush 10 times in the bore.
4) Mop up the mess with 2-4 patches (Depending on how dirty the bore is).

If it needs more cleaning I'll repeat this (but not needed normally as I clean regularly) and it normally turns out completly clean looks shiny. Then I do a light oiling and I'm done. :)

PS. The Hopps Elite stuff is amazing.

Dimitri

Claven2
10-24-2006, 01:03 PM
NEVER use a stainless bore bbrush - it WILL hurt the internal polish of the barrel, no matter what eny salesman tries to tell you.

For copper cutting solutions, use a stiff nylon bore brush. SIR mailorder has them.

As for a bore guide - hogwash. Buy a good quality graphite cleaning rod and remove the bolt & clean from the action end. The graphite won't harm the bore and neither will the brass tip, assuming you clean the fouling grit off the rod every couple of strokes.

Dimitri
10-24-2006, 06:01 PM
I avoid Stainless Steel and Nylon Brushes, dont have a personal reason to do it but a person that had much more firearms knowlage then I'll ever have said:


Brass brushes are softer than barrel steel and does no harm. S/S brushes are harder than barrel steel is definetly a no no. Nylon may surprise you to know is very abrasive If you doubt this look at the carbide eye on yout fishing rod where nylon line has worn groves into it.

After reading that for the first time I thought about it and it makes sense to me so I decided to avoid Stainless Steel and Nylon Brushes. :)

Dimitri

Claven2
10-24-2006, 07:39 PM
Yes, nylon can be abrasive over a long time with lots of rubbing, but you only use it for one or two strokes to put the solvent into the bore.

You don't scrub with copper cutter, it just sits in the bore chemically reacting. After a couple of hours you wipe it out with a patched jag ;)

Believe me, shooting your gun will wear it out WAY before using a nylon brush in this application will ;)

Dimitri
10-24-2006, 08:22 PM
Claven,

Well I do alot of rubbing with the copper brush to cut through the dirt and grim on the bore look up on how I clean my rifle :D

Dimitri

Brewster
10-24-2006, 08:42 PM
I use the Outers Bore Foam. It works well. Just shoot and repeat the cleaining. You'd be surprised how blue the stuff comes out the first time....the blue is copper...

crunchman
10-26-2006, 10:36 AM
New member here, but I have a lot of years working on guns of all types. I used to be a partner in a small custom rifle shop and cleaning was one of our services. For the really grundgy rifles that came in, we used an Outers Electronic bore cleaner set-up. This uses a mild electric charge through the cleaning solution to free the fouling from the barrel and attract it to a steel rod inserted into the barrel. This is a fairly pricy set-up, but here's a link to a home-built that does the same thing and it does work well. Hope this helps.
http://www.surplusrifle.com/reviews/copperout/index.asp

Claven2
10-26-2006, 10:50 AM
One problem with electrolytic cleaning is that it CAN be overdone. If you leave it on too long, the electrically charged amonia will damage the bore.

i have used the mbefore and they work if you don't overdo it, but I've since switched back to chemical cleaners as they are more idiot proof and you never know when the wife might get on your case to drop everything and go do some distracting thing around the house instead of carefully watching your electronic bore cleaner... ;)

Ian Robertson
11-21-2006, 09:12 PM
I use Wipe Out. Spray it in and give it many hours to work, don't rush, wipe it out and repeat. I have a couple of wooden P-H rod guides around for Lee Enfield, if anyone wants numbers to make some copies let me know.

Claven2
11-22-2006, 03:29 PM
Another "old hand" truck I use is I'll wet a patch with regular Hoppes No.9 and liberally coat the bore. Let the rifle sit horizontal for a week, every so often (once or twice a day) turning the rifle so it all doesn't collect in one spot.

You'd be surprised how dirty the patch will look. Even when you thought the bore was "clean".

sdh1911
11-24-2006, 12:45 AM
I have used Lanolin based hand cleaner on a couple hard cleans and found it worked pretty well HTH.SDH

powmia56
11-25-2006, 10:13 AM
Old shotgun shells work nicely as bore guides. Just pick one that is the right size for your barrel and punch the old primer out of the center for your cleaning rod to go through.

Cantom
11-25-2006, 10:58 AM
Old shotgun shells work nicely as bore guides. Just pick one that is the right size for your barrel and punch the old primer out of the center for your cleaning rod to go through.

I used to do exactly that on my M14-a 12 gauge shell fit perfectly over the flash hider.

Oatmeal Savage
12-03-2006, 07:37 PM
Anyone use bore snakes?

Cantom
12-03-2006, 09:09 PM
Anyone use bore snakes?

Lots of people do. The story is, they don't do a really first class job of cleaning, the're kind of an expedient for using at the range, before using a good rod at home. I recently bought a .22 bore snake but haven't used it yet.

Claven2
12-04-2006, 11:07 AM
Bore snakes are GREAT for the guns that aren't easily cleaned from the action end with a proper rod, think M1 Garand, M14, etc.

On a bolt gun, I tend to use a proper cleaning rod. My personal favorite is a graphite rod with brass fitting and a ball bearing rotating handle.

This is the one I use (ie, the last cleaning rod you'll ever buy):
http://sirmailorder.ca/show_prod.php?product_id=298014&cat_id=10&subcat_id=105&PHPSESSID=

Rapidrob
12-18-2006, 04:49 PM
I too have had bores that won't clean no matter what you do. I built my own Electronic Bore cleaner with outstanding results. What the bore cleaner is really doing is plating the metal deposits from the bore onto an anode. Basic electronics state that electricity flows Positive to Negative externaly, Negative to Positive internaly. This is a plus for us gun owners. I use an old computer power supply, 5 VDC is more than enough for what we need to do. I place a stainless steel rod with 2-3mm clearance from the bore of the rifle. I seal the breech with the rod going through a rubber cork stopper. The rod is insulated from touching the bore by using a small O-ring that is smaller than the bore to allow gas to escape. I place a short piece of plastic tubing on the muzzle and a funnel into this tubing to for a supply of cleaner. I use a mixture of 33% distilled H2o, White vineagar, and non-sudsy ammonia. The positive wire goes to the front sight, the other wire to the rod end that is out of the liquid in the funnel into dead air. As soon as the power is turned on, the bubbles start flowing up into the funnel. Fresh cleaner will flow downward and continue to clean. Lead,copper, metal gunk will flow from the grooves and "plate" onto the rod. The whole thing takes 20 minutes to do it's job. Your bore will be cleaner than you have ever seen it. On the down side, if the bore is pitted, you just opened the pores up for more fouling to gather in. If the bore is in good shape, it will be easy to keep the bore clean for then on. Never,ever leave the unit on and walk away. Any cleaning longer than one hour can damage the bore. Never use ammonia stronger than 11% stregnth. Never sudzy ammonia. Ammonia can remove bluing, be carful with spills.
I have used this device on most of my surplus rifles with results that have brought new life to these rifles. I hope this helps. It's easy to do.

R005t3r
08-17-2007, 10:21 PM
I had an 1896 L.E.1 that looked like it spent its life in a barn. I tried hard core bore solvents; not good enough. I plugged the muzzle, poured in brake fluid and let it brew for 24 hours. Drained and scrubbed with an oversize bore brush, patched and voila; gunk be gone.

ding
09-07-2007, 11:59 PM
I have filled the bore with stanisall avery good cleaning agent let soak for 3hours with the end of the barrel capped thean scrub out with over size bore brush and more stanisall ===ding

Cantom
09-11-2007, 07:11 PM
I had an 1896 L.E.1 that looked like it spent its life in a barn. I tried hard core bore solvents; not good enough. I plugged the muzzle, poured in brake fluid and let it brew for 24 hours. Drained and scrubbed with an oversize bore brush, patched and voila; gunk be gone.

Interesting idea...could the brake fluid hurt the bluing or metal? It dissolved stuff nothing else would touch?

Gibbs505
09-15-2007, 06:23 PM
I use Wipe Out. Spray it in and give it many hours to work, don't rush, wipe it out and repeat. I have a couple of wooden P-H rod guides around for Lee Enfield, if anyone wants numbers to make some copies let me know.

I use whipe out as well!

ganderite
09-16-2007, 10:10 PM
Fouling is layers of powder fouling and metal fouling. An old Lee Enfield can have cupronickel fouling which is very difficult to remove.

I have cleaned purchases this way a number of times. It has sometimes taken a week.

Equipment needed:

Cleaning rod and patches
Abrasive cleaner (JB paste or Rem Clean)
Copper solvent (Hoppes Benchrest, Sweets 7.62, carb cleaner or KG 12)

The procedure is to stroke the barrel about 10 times with an abrasive patch. repeat.
Stroke barrel with wet patch with solvent.
Wipe with clean patch.
Stroke with wet patch and then leave rifle overnight, muzzle down on a paper towel.


The alternating cleaners remove power fouling and metal fouling. Repeat until the stain on the paper towel is clean. This may take a week. The nice thing is the most of the work is done by chemicals over time.

My favorite abrasive cleaner is RemClean. I use JB on a badly fouled rifle.
My favourite chemical cleaner is Hopes Benchrest on a good barrel and Sweets 7.62 on a rough barrel. Your local car parts store sells carb cleaner. This stuff seem to remove metal fouling quite well.

I just saw this test for a new cleaner KG 12

www.kgcoatings.com/KG-12%20test%20results.pdf

I will try that. It looks real aggressive.

Firearms should always be stored muzzle down, so the oil or cleaner does not run out of the barrel and into the action, trigger and under the bedding.

RobSmith
09-20-2007, 01:51 AM
Try to find some break free bore cleaning foam if you can. Until I found this stuff I swore by Hoppes Elite bore gel, since then, well, the break free stuff WORKS (leave it overnight, to hell with the instructions on the can, repeat as necessary). The problem of course is that the can is damned near empty by now and I haven't found anymore of the stuff in Canada yet.

bill1
09-28-2007, 04:27 PM
Hi Tom put a cork in the chamber fill the barrel with household ammonia put a piece of tape over the muzzel so the ammonia will not evaporate out. Stand rifle up overnite next day pour out ammonia and scrub bore with snug fitting bore brush, repeat as necessary. DON'T BREATH FUMES!!!!! I have recovered some terrible bores with this method. DON'T BREATH FUMES !!! Do it outside well ventilated!!

justin_j_francis
10-13-2007, 03:06 AM
A recent discovery of mine is finding the line of m-pro 7 cleaners, use the bore gel to get the powder and lead out then follow up with the copper remover if needed AND they have no ammonia and are biodigradeable :thup: so its not so harsh on your bore.

bearhunter
10-30-2007, 01:49 AM
Cantom, a cheap and easy bore guide can be made from a piece of hollow plastic or a dowel, with a cartridge that has had the base drilled out large enough to allow your patch head and brush to pass through. The case butt needs to be glued or epoxied to the base of the tube.

Another more expensive method is to get a bolt, take out the fireing mechanism and remove the extractor head/bolt head and solder a drilled out cartridge to the base. To stop cleaners from draining back into the action/stock just slip a Buna N "O" ring over the case that will lightly seal the chamber.

I have a mixture of stuff that I make up for really difficult cleaning projects, It consists of 25% Cleens (automotive cylinder cleaner), 15% Kroil and 50% Brake Free.

Normally I use 50/50 Cleens/Kroil, but for really tough cases I use the above mixture. It really dissolves the carbon fouling that is between the layers of copper fouling and makes the whole process a lot easier.

I usually let the mixture soak for several hours before running a brush that is the next caliber smaller (7mm/.284) into the bore and pull/push back and forth several times at varying spots in the bore, a brass brush won't hurt anything. Then wipe it out a few times with a patch soaked with Motty's Bore Paste, a Parker Hale product, hard to find, JB bore paste will do the same job. Resoak the bore with the cleaner again and leave sit for seferal hours again. Clean out as before and Use Wipe Out or Sweets to finishthe copper and then swab the bore with alcohol to get rid of all the cleaning residue and oil the bore accordingly. You may have to repeat the above procedure mor aften, but it will do the job on anything I've ever come accross.