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View Full Version : Mexican milsurp?

c9er
10-25-2006, 11:34 PM
Not sure if this qualifies as a milsurp? If it is not worthy delete it.

Let's see what you guys can tell me about this old thing. I'm not being coy; I don't have any info other than a friend of my dad who was an archaeologist found it in Mexico. The rest of the story adds to the piece's intrigue somewhat. The friend was later shot and killed by a Mexican rancher who said they (the archaeologists) were trespassing on his land. Anyways, here it is.

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/adeskin/hobby/th_IMG_2146.jpg (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/adeskin/hobby/IMG_2146.jpg)

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/adeskin/hobby/th_IMG_2147.jpg (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/adeskin/hobby/IMG_2147.jpg)

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/adeskin/hobby/th_IMG_2150.jpg (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/adeskin/hobby/IMG_2150.jpg)

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/adeskin/hobby/th_IMG_2151.jpg (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/adeskin/hobby/IMG_2151.jpg)

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/adeskin/hobby/th_IMG_2152.jpg (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/adeskin/hobby/IMG_2152.jpg)

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/adeskin/hobby/th_IMG_2153.jpg (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/adeskin/hobby/IMG_2153.jpg)

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/adeskin/hobby/th_IMG_2155.jpg (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/adeskin/hobby/IMG_2155.jpg)

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/adeskin/hobby/th_IMG_2156.jpg (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/adeskin/hobby/IMG_2156.jpg)

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/adeskin/hobby/th_IMG_2159.jpg (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/adeskin/hobby/IMG_2159.jpg)

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/adeskin/hobby/th_IMG_2161.jpg (http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/adeskin/hobby/IMG_2161.jpg)

I've always wondered if the name on the bbl was the gunsmith's or the owner's. Among other things I've often pondered, was it a combat worthy pistol in its day or was it more of a farmer's side arm? You can see by the cylinder that it's a black powder pistol? which would help date it I assume? I have measured the bbl diameter it is: just a hair over 6/16" or exactly 1cm. I cannot discern any rifling.

The ejector and corresponding cover are missing.

The rear sight is a notch in the hammer.
Badger
10-26-2006, 07:30 AM
Qualified or not, it certainly fits into our general interests here, in regards to old firearms.

Thanks for taking the time to create a great post... :thup:

Really intriguing story behind it.....

Regards,
Badger
Claven2
10-26-2006, 07:41 AM
I have no specific information (someone will I'm sure), But I would venture that the bbl markings are the maker, not the owner.
green
10-26-2006, 09:36 AM
Can not read barrel mark. What is it? Looks like a 12mm pinfire which was used by French and other militaries.
tiriaq
10-26-2006, 10:18 AM
"MIGUEL SANCHEZ Y SANTOS". These revolvers were primarily made in Belgium, Spain, France. This is obviously a Spanish name, but applied with individual handstamps. I would suspect that it is the name of an owner. These large pinfire revolvers were serious firearms in their day; from the late 1850s on. I note that it is missing its ejector rod and loading gate. Should not be difficult to restore these parts if desired. Are there any proof marks?
c9er
10-26-2006, 02:20 PM
"MIGUEL SANCHEZ Y SANTOS". These revolvers were primarily made in Belgium, Spain, France. This is obviously a Spanish name, but applied with individual handstamps. I would suspect that it is the name of an owner. These large pinfire revolvers were serious firearms in their day; from the late 1850s on. I note that it is missing its ejector rod and loading gate. Should not be difficult to restore these parts if desired. Are there any proof marks?

I'm glad it is of interest!

No other proof marks whatsoever.

Thanks for the terminology: loading gate

Another feature I am curious about is a lever above trigger on the left side (I believe you can see it in the 7th photo from the top & the perhaps the last photo.) Was this a safety? let me know I will post a better pic of that area
tiriaq
10-26-2006, 04:01 PM
It looks as if there is a piece missing in that area. Might have been a safety. Pinfires were not commonly used in North America, although some of these large pinfires were used during the US Civil War. Probably a matter of availability, when demand was very high.
Mexico has a turbulent history, and all sorts of firearms found their way there.
c9er
10-26-2006, 10:44 PM
Thanks for all the info guys. I poked around the net and came up with this. It bears some striking resemblances:


http://dns.websitemanagement.net/clients/404/full_836_photo2.jpg

"French Model 1854 LeFaucheux Pinfire Revolver
Antique Arms and Collectable Blades Classified Ads11mm., 6 1/8" barrel. Bluedfinish. Spur trigger guard.Rosewood grips. Lanyard ring. Retainstraces of blue finish on cylinder, the remaining areas with gray-brownaged patina. Grips retainapproximately 85-90% varnish. Actiontight and crisp. TheseEuropean pinfire revolvers were often imported and used by Unionofficers during the Civil War. Afine condition large pinfire revolver.Ser. # 28256."
tiriaq
10-26-2006, 11:14 PM
IF the revolver is a Model 1854 French service revolver - I wonder if there is any possibility that it got to Mexico when the French tried to occupy the country.
Claven2
10-26-2006, 11:35 PM
Hard to tell from the small pic, but they certainly look the same. My money is that you've nailed the model - though it might just be a Spanish Belgian or Mexican knock-off of the French weapon.
c9er
10-27-2006, 12:17 AM
Sorry for the small picture: Here is the url:
http://www.collectorclassifiedsonline.com/detail.cfm?id=836

Holly smoke! Look at the price :move eek: too bad mine isn't mint :crying:

Hard to tell from the small pic, but they certainly look the same. My money is that you've nailed the model - though it might just be a Spanish Belgian or Mexican knock-off of the French weapon.

I agree. It is or more likely is modeled on the LeFaucheux 1853 or 1854 model 11MM pinfire pistol.
The pistols I am finding all share some very particular traits; the lanyard ring, octagonal section of the barrel, spur on trigger guard and the overall shape in general etc.

Good to know there are a good number of other pistols like it, as it should make it feasible to find a replacement loading gate and ejector rod.

Another site with a B&W photo: http://www.arms2armor.com/Firearms/lefauch1.htm
Claven2
10-27-2006, 07:47 AM
OK, I just fixed your image to the larger version. I still say yours is either a scrubbed and rebranded LeFaucheux, or a copy.