Remington Revolver Army or Navy?

[wrwbt]

Hello everyone. My name is Bill and I have been investigating a fire arm that was left to me by my late father. It is an antique fire arm and the only thing I can find out about it is that it is a Remington Revolver Army or Navy I am not sure. If anybody can help me find out what this fire arm actually is and a value for it that would be great. I am looking to sell it. Thanks You.:runaway:

[bouletbill]

Hi Bill (good name that) . I think the experts will be looking for a lot more detail, esp pics. Sounds to me like a cap & ball pistol, original or repro. Suggest you my get more help in the 'sooty & sweep' section. (ie; black powder).

[Bruce McAskill]

If it is a Remington Civil War cap and ball revolver then it would be the 1860 Army in .44 cal.

[Johnny Peppers]

The Civil War era Remington revolvers were made in both .44 and .36. The .36 caliber was Navy issue.

[Sarge13]

You fellas need to do some serious study on Civil War revolvers!!! :rolleyes:
He said it is a REMINGTON! That means it is NOT a Colt anything! :nono:
About like saying a Ford is a Chevy Malibu!
Since I presume he is reading Remington off of the revolver, IF it is cap & ball it is a Mod 58 and they only came in 44. There was No Army or Navy - that was strictly Colt.
Photos will quickly answer most questions. :thup:
Sarge

[Mohawk]

There have been some originals observed in .36 caliber. Most were special order with a shorter barrel. Check the museum site....

[Johnny Peppers]

You fellas need to do some serious study on Civil War revolvers!!! :rolleyes:
He said it is a REMINGTON! That means it is NOT a Colt anything! :nono:
About like saying a Ford is a Chevy Malibu!
Since I presume he is reading Remington off of the revolver, IF it is cap & ball it is a Mod 58 and they only came in 44. There was No Army or Navy - that was strictly Colt.
Photos will quickly answer most questions. :thup:
Sarge

Who called it a Colt? Better read it again.

The Remington was a single-action, six-shot, percussion revolver produced by E. Remington & Sons, Ilion, N.Y., based on the Fordyce Beals patent of September 14, 1858 (Patent 21,478). The Remington Army revolver was large-framed, in .44 caliber, with an 8 inch barrel length. The Remington Navy revolver was slightly smaller framed than the Army, and in .36 caliber with an 7.375 inch [Beals Navy 7.5 inch] barrel length. There were three progressive models; the Remington-Beals Army & Navy (1860-1862), the 1861 Army & Navy (1862-1863), and the New Model Army & Navy (1863-1875).[1] The three models are nearly identical in size and appearance. Subtle but noticeable differences in hammers, loading levers, and cylinders help identify each model. The 1861 Remington actually transitioned into New Model appearance by late 1862, slowly transforming throughout 1862, due to continual improvement suggestions from the U. S. Ordnance Department.

[Claven2]

As far as I know, the only "navy" remingtons are modern creations from Italian repro makers using a Remington New Model Army frame (commonly called a Remington 1858) and a .36 cal barrel and cylinder.

If it's an old original and a Remington, it is probably a new model army in .44

[emmagee1917]

Well , if they ony made .44s , someone needs to tell these silly folks.

http://www.nps.gov/archive/gett/soldierlife/webguns.htm

Chris

[Johnny Peppers]

As far as I know, the only "navy" remingtons are modern creations from Italian repro makers using a Remington New Model Army frame (commonly called a Remington 1858) and a .36 cal barrel and cylinder.

If it's an old original and a Remington, it is probably a new model army in .44

If it is a Remington, more than likely it is a .44 caliber, but that in now way changes the fact that Remington did produce a .36 caliber revolver for the military. A little reading goes a long way.

An Army and Two Navies Part 3 (http://armscollectors.com/mgs/an_army_and_two_navies_pt_3.htm)

[Patrick Chadwick]

It could be any of these:

Remington Beals Army Cal .44
Remington Beals Navy Cal. .36
Remington 1861 Army Cal. .44
Remington 1861 Navy Cal. .36
Remington New Model Army Cal. 44
Remington New Model Navy Cal. .36

Whichever model, as a percussion competition shooter I would love to have an original Remington. OK, it is in a country far, far away. And (the "sour grapes" consolation) I presumably couldn't afford it.

WRWBT, please post some pictures. For shooting, an original Remington is, next to a Rogers & Spencer, quite simply the best percussion revolver you can get. So even an example that is tatty (by collector's standards) can be very valuable for a BP and percussion shooter, like myself, provided that the bore is OK. "Finish" is of little relevance.

And for heavens sakes, don't just give it to a dealer. You don't know (yet) what you've got!

:wave:

[Johnny Peppers]

It could be any of these:

Remington Beals Army Cal .44
Remington Beals Navy Cal. .36
Remington 1861 Army Cal. .44
Remington 1861 Navy Cal. .36
Remington New Model Army Cal. 44
Remington New Model Navy Cal. .36


Anything is possible, but the .44's outnumbered the .36's about 25 to 1.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Anything is possible, but the .44's outnumbered the .36's about 25 to 1.

Could that be a tiny touch of rhetorical exaggeration?

Flayderman gives the quantities (all estimates, of course) as:
Beals Army 1,900
Beals Navy 14,500
1861 Army 6,000
1861 Navy 7,000
New Model Army 122,000
New Model Navy 28,000

So what does Flayderman know? Well more than I do, that's for sure.

But who cares! I just want an original Remington percussion revolver!:bow::bow::bow: All calibers accepted!

Give it another 50 years or so, and maybe one will turn up here!


:wave:

[Johnny Peppers]

Could that be a tiny touch of rhetorical exaggeration?

"If it is a Remington, more than likely it is a .44 caliber,"

I have no idea how my original statement reached your computer, but "more than likely" doesn't appear to be a rhetorical exaggeration, which prompted your original reply/rebuttal.

"Another major supplier of revolvers to the Federal government was the firm of E. Remington and Sons, of Ilion, New York. Beginning in 1858, Remington introduced an improved series of simplified revolver designs that featured a solid frame, which made the arm stronger and cheaper to produce than its primary competitor, the Colt. The War Department purchased approximately 114,000 .44 and .36 caliber Remington revolvers at $12.00 per gun, while Colt was still charging $25.00 for their New Model Army."

Lets see, if I add up your source, it comes to 179,400. Now that looks like more than a rhetorical exaggeration doesn't it?

[emmagee1917]

Johnny , Pat was listing total sales while you are listing War Dept buys. That's 179,400 vs 114,000 , so 65,400 were private sales . Pat was pointing out the 25 to one ratio you said as being an exaggeration. If Pat's figures are right , there are 129,900 .44s ( 1,900 + 6,000 + 122,000 ) vs. 49,500 .36s ( 14,500 + 7,000 + 28,000 ) so it is not 25 to 1 . It would be 72 % .44 vs. a 28% .36 rate , or about 3 to 1 odds in favor of the .44.

Of course collectors tend to snag one of each example for thier collections , so let's say 25% of the .44s are tied up by these people , that would leave 50% free to be seen/sold. But if each of them has a .36 too , they would reduce the number of free ones to 3% of production. In other words , for every 50 .44s you'd see , you'd see 3 .36 , which does come close to the 25 to 1 ratio you said.

Chris

[Patrick Chadwick]

If Pat's figures are right ,


Guys, I was careful to point out that those are not my figures, but Flayderman's figures. I am not a collector, not bothered by the numbers game, and not intending to stir up an argument about the same.

I wanted to point out for the benefit of the original contributor that any of the Remington Army or Navy-type percussion revolvers in good shootable condition is highly desirable for active shooters, regardless of how a collector would evaluate it.

What would interest me a lot more than numbers would be to see good pics of the revolver!

Patrick
:wave: