Remington Rand..Brazilian slide.

[coneten]

I picked up a shooter today. It is a Remington Rand No 923653. The o is underlined. FJA stamp, and US PROPERTY stamp are present. MSH hammer spur, take down lever, mag release and safety are all crosshatched. It has a set of Keyes grips that are in good order. The slide is the Hartford Colt with last patent date AUG. 19 1913 with the colt to the rear of serrations. The markings on the right side of slide are Brazilian crest EXERCITO BRAZILEIRO No 157754 and 1961. The finish on both slide and frame are thin so the miss match is not so obvious. I think there were some Brazilian slides offered by SARCO in the past. Just a shooter at a good price.

[Johnny Peppers]

Several years back the Brazilian slides were at all the gun shows, and like everything else they eventually dried up.

[coneten]

Thanks for the info on the slide. This pistol has a colt .45 auto barrel with a P stamp on the lug. I have some pics posted on the US section on GB's. A friend has informed me that this might be a type 1 Remington Rand. I checked out some pics of the parts on coolgunsite and they look to be correct except one of the grips. I guess it would be possible to find a type 1 slide but it would have to be an ugly one to match the finish on the frame.

[coneten]

21574

[Johnny Peppers]

Yes, your Remington Rand was originally a Type I, and appears to have the variation hammer found on some of the early RR pistols.
This is the slide marking your pistol would have originally had.

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2011/03/hra8gn-1.jpg

[coneten]

Your pistol is remarkable. I have been searching a bit on line for a correct slide but might have to wait till the next NGD show in Louisville. The barrel also has a small F stamp on the underside in addition to the COLT 45 AUTO and P stamp.

[Johnny Peppers]

Your pistol could have originally had a Colt barrel, but most likely it was a High Standard. The very early RR's had a large G Colt barrel. The F Colt barrel is too late for your pistol.
The pistol shown also had a 1911 type slide release, as a small quantity of the slide stops were sent to Remington Rand from Springfield Armory to help get production started. The slide has a hardness test mark near the front just below the top curve of the slide. It too has the variation hammer. The picture very well represents the color of the Du-Lite blue used at the time.

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2011/03/240zk2c-1.jpg

[westgard]

Interesting thing that the ordnance mark/crossed cannon is upside down. Mine is the same way, and I noticed that both of these are also similar. I have seen this with the very few type I's that I have observed, then with later examples, it's right side up.

[maxim]

It is beautiful. While on vacationin Zihauntenajo, Mexico we stopped at the Navy base PX. There was their version of a Navy MP on 'guard' in the store. He was armed with a severely worn 1911 in a severely worn and raggedy shoulder holster. It displayed the type of pitting and rust patina and worn grips of your pistol. No doubt from years and years of carry and being passed daily. I respect those who aquire pristine examples, but drawn to the ones who have earned thier scars from years of honest service.

[Johnny Peppers]

Your observations match mine. I have another Type I that is 180 pistols later, and it also has the upside down acceptance mark. This one is also a Type I, and the acceptance mark is right side up, but struck twice. It is not unusual to see a "bounce" from hand struck markings, but this one looks planned. The marks are evenly struck and perfectly lined up. Someone was probably playing that day.

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2011/03/2mnn4pg-1.jpg

[westgard]

I looked at Karl Karash's CD - his Type I's:
917171 - upside down
918335 - upside down
923928 - upside down
926422 - right side up
mine is a 918000 range, upside down
the two on the thread
923653 - upside down
917387 - upside down
seems pretty consistent that the earlier ones were all done the same way (small sample though!).

[Johnny Peppers]

It is beautiful. While on vacationin Zihauntenajo, Mexico we stopped at the Navy base PX. There was their version of a Navy MP on 'guard' in the store. He was armed with a severely worn 1911 in a severely worn and raggedy shoulder holster. It displayed the type of pitting and rust patina and worn grips of your pistol. No doubt from years and years of carry and being passed daily. I respect those who aquire pristine examples, but drawn to the ones who have earned thier scars from years of honest service.

While it is certainly OK to like the worn pistols, most of the military pistols in private hands left the military approximately 40 to 100 years ago. Whether the wear came from military usage or from being carried under Bubba's truck seat is impossible to determine. In the end wear is just wear no matter where it came from and that determines their value in the collecting world. They were all made for the same thing.

The pistol shown below is documented by SRS as having been issued to the commanding officer of Navy ship U.S.S. LCI 780 in April of 1945. It was manufactured in June of 1943, so it had to be somewhere in the military for almost two years prior to issue to the ship's captain. A good example of a pistol not having to be worn out to have any history.

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2011/03/111md92-1.jpg

[DeputyBill]

While it is certainly OK to like the worn pistols, most of the military pistols in private hands left the military approximately 40 to 100 years ago. Whether the wear came from military usage or from being carried under Bubba's truck seat is impossible to determine. In the end wear is just wear no matter where it came from and that determines their value in the collecting world. They were all made for the same thing.

I have to chime in my agreement. I was privileged to serve during the transitional period (USA, 82nd Abn Div) from '86-'90. About midway during my (initial) service, my unit turned in our M1911-A1s for the new Berettas. Needless to say, our well-worn "forty-fives" were valued for their utility & reliability; we didn't think about aesthetics or future collectibility, of course. Now, as an aspiring civilian collector, condition trumps mere generic association with a nondescript unit. Yes, there are exceptions...
Now, to have an example in exquisite condition WITH a documented history, that's truly exceptional! (Thanks for posting the pics, Johnny Peppers.)