Do it NOW, while you can..............

[Peter Laidler]

Just a thought while re-reading this thread. Anyone that has one, ordered one or is even thinking of getting one of these commercial L1A1 rifles should get hole of the UK spec user handbook and if possible, a copy of the UK Military EMER. The last ones I saw in service here was in about 1993 and Armourers that know about these things (.....I don't mean those who have read about them...) are getting old.

Just to reiterate.............. get a user handbook and EMER NOW, while you can.

Have you got any of this stuff Brian at BDL?

Here's one for the other Armourers out there........ What spare parts should owners of these commercial L1's be keeping handy.

Magazine catch, spring and axis pin, set of return springs....... anything else?

[nzl1a1collector]

Some other parts to consider:-
Pin, Firing (1005-99-960-3116)
Spring, Firing Pin (1005-99-960-3117)
Pin, Retaining Firing Pin (1005-99-960-2322)
Body, Holding Open Catch (1005-99-960-0275)

Screw, Foresight (x2) (1005-99-960-2016)
Foresight (1005-99-960-2014)

Original 1977 L1A1 Handbook
http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2011/05/HandbookRifleL1A11977-1.jpg

[skiprat]

OLD!!!!!
Thanks for that Peter …………….
As these weapons are manually operated and will require to be cocked more often,
I would look at getting a spare stud for the cocking handle, possibly a spare cocking handle (depending on how worn the “original” one is )
Full set of wood furniture and a Hythe rear sight, (to blend in with the regiments shooting team)

I remember….. (its hard when your this OLD)
I did change/re-rivet quite a few rats tails (return spring rod on the carrier) due to them been bent, it could have been an Artillery thing.

We got rid of the last of our L1A1s in the mid 1990s at the Guards Depot. They used them as enemy/demonstration weapons.
The Depot was also one of the first units to get the L85A1 (SA80) there was a lot less work to do on the old SLR’s

[tailz]

Hi Peter,

Pretty good advice as I had been giving some thought already on what spares would be good to carry as well as finding a Gunsmith capable of working on the L1A1.

I had bookmarked SAF Lithgow and Numrich Gun Parts having done a search and found that they both held quite extensive parts for the L1A1, hopefully both will ship to the UK. The next thing was to try and establish what would be good to carry as spares but I wanted to wait and see what parts had been changed in the L1A1's that we will be getting to establish if Inch or Metric parts would be needed. I also have the AGI FN FAL DVD which is a great source of info regarding stripping the rifle and should be of benefit should I need to carry out any minor repairs. There are a couple of sites in the US selling the manuals and once again, I am awaiting info regarding shipping to the UK.

Cheers

Tony

[daryldiane]

SAF Lithgow will not ship to the UK, Numrich will but put a $25 handling fee onto international orders and like most US sites will not ship over $100 worth at a time. Brad at gunthings .com will ship, but has a limited number of parts, I've just received my butt removal tool from him, took about a week.
Good hunting,
Daryl

[tankhunter]

Sems like most of you 'Old Sweats' have missed the obvious! Ha, Ha!

What about: An Extractor, Extrcator Stay & Spring? SURELY you remember the 'User' attempting to remove these for thorough cleaning & 'PING'! they shot across the sky & got lost in the grass on the ranges! ;)

Not an easy set of componants to remove if you havent done a few! BUT, essential Periodically to remove the build up of crud under the extractor claw. & also around the stay & its locating hole in the block. Excessive Crap in the boring will prevent the stay compressing sufficiently occassionaly. & either a componant will let go & fracture. Or you will get extraction 'Difficulties'! :move eek:

Just a thought!......................:thup:

[nzl1a1collector]

If your going to remove these:-
Extractor (1005-99-960-2320)
Plunger, Extractor (1005-99-960-2323)
Spring Extractor (1005-99-960-2105)

Then you are going to need one of these
http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2011/05/Extractortools-1.jpg

[skiprat]

Ah yes tankhunter … but at this age the mind wanders….

With everyone wanting to remove their extractors, it could be a good time to get all my armourers to complete there “trade test” and produce the extractor removing tool….

Also people may need rear sight screws and “Z” springs..

You could try DS-Solutions in Kent for some SLR spares and tools. The web site is under construction (again) but if you ask they may have what you want..

[tankhunter]

Skippy, Youmay remember that these tools simply make life much easier for the Armourer. AND the benifit of CONTROLED removal of the componants.
to save time, I USUALY remove the extractor assy with the combination tool.

For those of you who are NOt familiar with extractor stripping procedures:
The Brit combination tool, has a small stud projection near the end with the swivelling threaded bit for the chamber brush.
this stud is placed in the hole in the extractor stay & the stay pulled back. (It's a strong spring!) Suffciently to remove the extractor claw. Then pressure released under control & you can remove the stay & opperating spring. It is probably best for first timers. To put a rag or a cloth over the whole assembly & also your hands. this would prevent loss of any componants in the event of a 'PING' if the stud slips out of the stay & shoots forward & out!

of course, this was the original method of removal as written in the user handbook. BUT, discouraged later on as troops LOST a LOT of extractor parts! :eek:
Armourer ONLY job from then on! Ha Ha. :cheers:

---------- Post added at 03:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:52 AM ----------


If your going to remove these:-
Extractor (1005-99-960-2320)
Plunger, Extractor (1005-99-960-2323)
Spring Extractor (1005-99-960-2105)

Then you are going to need one of these
http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2011/05/Extractortools-1.jpg

The Armourer Instuction Model, refered to. Is actually a British Armourers Hand made tool. These were made in the General Engineering wing when a trainee Armourer was going through the training school & onto actual Weapon Instruction later on. As Armourers are known (Then) for fine fitting & precision work. It was deemed usefull that if they were learning about metal properties, Bench Fitting & Filing Etc. One of the Trade Test pieces would be a metal Tool they had to make to an engineering drawing. They were marked on this test piece. And at the end of that training period in Gen Eng Wing, the tool would actually perform a usefull role later on when he was at a unit. There are quite a few around & ALL vary on quality & finish, as it was an individual effort in every case. But they all LOOKED similar & did the job required of them.

[nzl1a1collector]

In case someone feels like taking the on the challenge of making an 'Armourers Instructions' Extractor Tool.
http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2011/05/UKToolea-1.jpg
http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2011/05/UKToolExtractorAssy-1.jpg


I have a good collection of 'Locally made' Armourers tools, but there is one that is over engineering at its best and has no practical purpose. This must be a 'Trade Test Piece' and I love it for what it is.
http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2011/05/UKGasCylpintool-1.jpg

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2011/05/UKGasCylpintoolfitted-1.jpg

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2011/05/UKGasCylpintooltag-1.jpg

If anyone has any 'locally made' or even production Armourers tools for the L1A1 they no longer use or want, I would love to add them to the collection :)

[Peter Laidler]

Good idea to keep an extractor, spring and stay plus a couple of backsight adjusting screws and z spring. I have to say that I never used any of the 'special tools' except the butt removing tool and used the combination tool for the extractor. I've never even seen the gas cylinder retaining pin tool! The pin was captive in any case, held in place by the gas regulator. Incidentally, the markings on your tool KtK includes the initials A in U. That indicates an item that is on charge (on the technical quartermasters books) but is in use somewhere in the workshops, hence the ARTICLE IN USE code that would indicate that it was on charge and accountable.

Another example of this was the slave No4T and an L42 used to test the 'fastness' of No32/L1A1 sights. It would be on the books of course but held somewhere in the workshops. There, just another bit of rubbish.............

[bigduke6]

If anyone has any 'locally made' or even production Armourers tools for the L1A1 they no longer use or want, I would love to add them to the collection

If you dont have one of these then drop me a line,

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2009/07/Picture275-1.jpg
http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2009/07/Picture278-1.jpg
http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2009/07/Picture276-1.jpg

[nzl1a1collector]

Incidentally, the markings on your tool KtK includes the initials A in U. That indicates an item that is on charge (on the technical quartermasters books) but is in use somewhere in the workshops, hence the ARTICLE IN USE code that would indicate that it was on charge and accountable.

Thanks for the info about the markings its nice to know what they finally mean (ARTICLE IN USE)

Its what I liked about the piece, it served no practical purpose. it would of cost £100's to make with all the time and machining, when a £2 pin punch can do the same job, and a lot quicker too.

[David TS]

I've got an EMERS and Skennerton's SAIS parts list courtesy of Brian Dick, plus a repro operating manual for my straight pull L1A1, I just need to learn how to shoot the damn thing now :madsmile:

[Peter Laidler]

I remember that 'special tool' Big Duke. If anyone out there is still wondering what it is/was............ The jig was mounted onto a .30 Browning tripod and the rifle was placed into the jig and using the reflector (middle item, bottom picture) and the crosswire adaptor (same pic, right item) the rifle was bore sighted at the target at X yards away.

THEN, the SUIT sight or the big IIW L1A7/SS20 night sight could be bore sighted and zeroed.

I know.............., I know................ a cheap commercial bore sighter or collimation device could do the job cheaper and easier. But rather than spend a few ££'s, it's easier to say to a sergeant who might be kicking his heels somewhere '..............Go and invent me a gadget that will do this that and the other. Make it really cumbersome and heavy, using loads of angle iron, steel and other fittings and things. Ensure that in doing so that there is at least one part that will snap shot quickly that will cause the user to jump up and down like a frog on fire after trapping his fingers somewhere. Take your time............ I need it tomorrow'

There it is........., exhibit A......... an IIW bore sighting device

[nzl1a1collector]

Here's Exhibit A, the Boresighting Device, fitted to the L2A1 Tripod
http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2011/05/BoresightingDevice-1.jpg

[Peter Laidler]

Can you believe that someone would invent such a monstrosity. When you took the rifle onto the range to fire a check group, it was always miles out, especially with the IIW night sight. That's because the weight of the sight would drag the rear end down and flex the barrel which in turn made any bore sighting hopeless.

Like I said, a few ££'s spent on a commercial collimator and you'd be home and dry. Talking of which, I saw the first UK milspec collimators being evaluated. Talk about complex, heavy and with so much unnecessary crap. When all you needed was........... a cheap commercial off-the-shelf collimator!

[bigduke6]

will cause the user to jump up and down like a frog on fire after trapping his fingers somewhere

Sounds like one of the jobs you would rather pass on to someone else?

[tankhunter]

Can you believe that someone would invent such a monstrosity. When you took the rifle onto the range to fire a check group, it was always miles out, especially with the IIW night sight. That's because the weight of the sight would drag the rear end down and flex the barrel which in turn made any bore sighting hopeless.

Like I said, a few ££'s spent on a commercial collimator and you'd be home and dry. Talking of which, I saw the first UK milspec collimators being evaluated. Talk about complex, heavy and with so much unnecessary crap. When all you needed was........... a cheap commercial off-the-shelf collimator!

Peter, when I was 80 yards away from your present workplace. there USED to be Two of these boresight adaptors on the shelf in the Armourers Shop. I dont think they EVER got lifted off the dexion shelving! They were always coated with a layer of grey dust, because they NEVER moved!.....:D Wonder if thery are still there?..............;)

[Peter Laidler]

Don't remember seeing them Tankie but does anyone remember that much later, instead of using the breech and muzzle plugs as a means of viewing, you could use the rifle broken - with the trigger mechanism housing hanging down, less the breech block and carrier but using a .22" sub-calibre barrel inserted as a quicker and more accurate means of aligning the barrel onto the target.

The breech and muzzle plugs were always kept in a safe place, separate from the aiming device. So safe in fact, that nobody ever remembered where they were! As a result they were always missing......................., but safely missing of course.

What a contraption! Incidentally, it was Geoff Payne that dreamed up the idea of using the sub calibre barrel instead of the breech mirror and muzzle stop-down plug