Correct bolthead for 1941 Lithgow No. 1 Mk. III* SMLE?

[rscaife]

I recently purchased a Lithgow 1941 No. 1, Mk III* SMLE. Upon receipt I checked the headspace with Okie headspace gauges (after removing extractor) and the bolt did not close with the .064 gauge (too little headspace). Further inspection of the bolthead shows the number "3" and "BA45". On the bolt body is "BNP", "1956", and "M/476". Based on the information I've read on the forum, No. I Mk III* boltheads did not have numbers stamped on them. The bolt assembly does not have a serial number and may have been replaced in the past.

I'm hoping someone can clarify if the bolthead and bolt assembly are correct for a 1941 No 1 Mk III* Lithgow SMLE? Or did a previous owner replace it with an incorrect bolt assembly?

Bolt body markings: crown?, BNP, 1956, M/476
Bolthead markings: BA45, 3
Cocking piece: OA'45

Thanks in advance!

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Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Simon P]

Does the serial number on the bolt match the rifle, some one could have switched bolts giving you a head space problem

[rscaife]

I don't see any serial number on the bolt head or body. Just the markings I mentioned:

Bolt body markings: crown?, BNP, 1956, M/476
Bolthead markings: BA45, 3
Cocking piece: OA'45

It seems likely the bolt head and/or body are not original. However, I want to be sure this is a correct bolt assembly for the rifle. If not I can always replace it.

[jrhead75]

Looks like a Bathurst produced bolt head and Orange produced C/P, both proper for a Lithgow rifle. At first blush, the bolt body sounds like it's BSA, but the location of the number makes it sound like it could be a "batching" number stamped on the bottom of the bolt handle during production...is there anything similar on the top right (rear) shoulder of the action body, just under where the bolt handle would rest when it was closed and locked? If it's there and they match, it's the factory original bolt body.

[Alan de Enfield]

Could the M476 actually be a M47C ?
In which case it would be a BSA bolt and would not have originally been on a Lithgow rifle - however if it went through an armourer they would not sort out 'matching' bolts (so Peter tells us) but it would have had the rifle serial number stamped onto it.

Seems a bit of a conundrum - probably / possibly a 'civilian' job to replace a lost bolt ?

Seems a bit odd that the headspace is too-tight - has it been fired like that ?
Maybe its been used with the notoriously 'thin-rimmed' US made ammunition (Rem, Win, S&B etc)

Do you have any more info re its recent history or usage ?

[jrhead75]

Could the M476 actually be a M47C ?

I was thinking M47C as well, but after enlarging and lightening the picture, it does appear to be 'M476'.

[rscaife]

Thanks for your suggestions. I finally had a few minutes to look closely at the bolt body markings. Took a little doing, but it does looks like M/47C after all (not M/476 as I originally posted). Also, there is a stamp E213 on the top right (rear) shoulder of the action body. This doesn't match the bolt body and further indicates the bolt assembly is not original. As far as background on the Enfield I have no information, though the previous owner did say he fired it with S&B ammo.

So it looks like the original was replaced by a BSA bolt head and body. Correct?

This opens up some questions:

Can the rifle be fired safely with a BSA bolt head and body?

The headspace is too small. I read the headspace can be increased using emery cloth. Is this safe? Or is it better to replace the bolt head and body?

Other recommendations or thoughts?

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Thanks!

[Alan de Enfield]

Extract of an article by Peter Laidler :

"....Now, how you shorten the bolt head it is up to you. You can machine it in a lathe if you like but some are quite hard, or surface grind but I was taught that the best way was to rub the face down on a sheet of ‘400’ wet and dry carborundum paper on a sheet of glass, just covered in slow running water. Go round and round with equal pressure, rotating the bolt head slightly every so often, taking a gnats knacker off at a time for several minutes and trying it again and again. Every so often, smear a smidgin of engineers blue on the rear of the .074” gauge and close the bolt head lightly against it to ensure a crisp round witness mark on the face of the bolt. This is the acid test of it being perfectly square to the bore ....."

[muffett.2008]

You state that the previous owner used it with S&B, in which case he may have deliberately fitted a longer bolthead to overcome the constant case seperations that this undersized brass is renowned for.
If you cannot close the bolt on Privi, than I would consider changing it, or just using Winchester and S&B brass.

[Peter Laidler]

I'd suggest that all these marks are pretty well academic. The only marks you need to concern yourself with is whether or not the rifle serial number is on the back of the bolt. The actual setting up of a No1 or 4 rifle bolt is a rather complicated/tricky operation and you'd do well to read up an article that was written about it on this forum.

I'd suggest that you get the bolt properly fitted up and then properly fitted to your rifle including the correct CHS. As an amateur myself, but having fitted a few, unless you are experienced, you could be going down a rocky road......................