Milsurp Target Competition and Shoot (2012)

[bigduke6]

Milsurp Target Competition and Shoot (2012)

A world wide Milsurp Target competition/shoot, open to all Milsurps members, its not so much a competition but to see how each Milsurp rifle shoot.

There are many competitions we can't get to or would like to take part in but are sometimes the wrong date, place, time, also the categories may be not for our choice of milsurp, example being a WW1 Milsurp comp, its ok if you have a dated rifle but for someone who may be out that date range then it becomes a bit of a pain.

As most members on this site are interested or have a Milsurp rifle to hand, being the serious collector or the novice or the first time owner of a Milsurp, (we have all been there at one point) I thought it would be good to have a quarterly shoot/comp throughout the year.

It’s a basic comp with minimum rules and it's based on KISS, ( keep it simple stupid)

Any Milsurp Rifle as issued or in line with the categories listed, common sense will tell you what one.

Any desired position prone, bench, (standing if it really floats your boat !)

Sling, or rest of any description, but as it’s a milsurp NO bipod unless it was issued with it.

The Distance is a 100 mtrs/ 100 yrds, as I would think most can get to a 100 mtr range, whatever corner of the world you are in.

The ammo is up to the individual, home made. Factory, jacketed, cast etc, its your rifle you decide.

Categories

1. Any action Milsurp as issued, with original iron sights. (as issued I mean as the rifle would have been, some of us may of changed wood or a barrel etc, but these must be original items, but the bedding of barrels is also allowed)

2. Same as above, but any iron sights.

3. Same as 1, but with scope, any scope permitted.

4. Open to any converted milsurp, either in Calibre, barrel, any sight, iron or scope and bipod, and this is also for any action, Martini etc…, Semi auto (if your lucky enough to have these in your part of the world) or any Milsurp variant.

5. Any Black powder (Milsurp) this includes any issued or volunteer rifle.

6. Any Military trainer

The target will be the PL7 or ISSF target cropped to fit on A4 paper which will enable us all to download and print it at home, or you may produce it to the dimensions as shown and you can put this on a backing target also as to increase the overall size etc for an aiming point. you can have 2ft x 2ft, target if you wish but the centre must be marked with the dimensions below.

Any colour disc or marker would be allowed, again its up to the shooter, If you want to make the target into a tin hat, colour it yellow, red etc, its up to you, as long as the dimensions are standard.

Additional aiming points may be used, to compensate the milsurp rifles that have the rear sight starting at 200, 300. mtrs/yrds etc.

How you manage to get 5 rounds on the target at a 100 mtrs/yrds away is up to you.




The size is as follows:

V bull = 25mm
10 ring = 50mm
9 ring = 100mm
8 ring = 150mm
7 ring = 200mm
6 ring = 250mm
5 ring = 300mm


http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerdog/generalstorage/tempworkingdirectory/icons/target.jpg (http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerdog/generalstorage/tempworkingdirectory/comptarget2.bmp)
(Click PIC to Enlarge to FULL size)

Note: After you click on images to ENLARGE them, you may find they automatically size smaller in your browser's window making them smaller than actual size. The auto sizing is your browser's way of keeping images entirely within the screen size you have set. If this happens, you will see a small box in the bottom right hand corner of the pic with four arrows point outwards, or sometimes a small magnifying glass when you move your mouse over the pic itself. Click on either and the pic will EXPAND and open up to its normal size, so you should now be able to print it at full size. It may even print at full size for you from the smaller browser re-sized version, but try it yourself.

For those of you who want the full size target in PDF format ...

(Click HERE to download target in PDF fie format) (http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerdog/generalstorage/tempworkingdirectory/comptarget.pdf)


Post pic of the card on the thread,

5 shots per card,

2 cards a year per rifle, and can enter as many rifles in each category,

The results will be posted at the end of the year, again its up to you, when you want to shoot but would be nice to be able to have most results or cards in by a set time, of course this being a world wide comp if someone is snowed in or someone cant get out because the tarmac has melted then it’s a viable excuse, a runny nose or bad throat don’t count.

If you are having a good day and want to shoot all cards in one day then no probs, if you want to take part in all six then no worries, all in all common sense and honesty are the two main factors, and of course its meant to be fun, its not about being better than the next man, its what you can do with your Milsurp rifle.

For anyone with a disability and feel they are up to it, but are unsure, then please contact me.

The initial idea was to allow us ( forum Members) from all walks of life to shoot in our own time, way, position with our favourite rifles and show what can be done with an old Milsurp, plus its free and no pressure.

If you looking for gold medals, being carried round in a chair, having free drinks, expect respect and want a book written about you then, I,m sorry to say but this is NOT for you.

If you have an old Enfield, Mauser, Nagant, Springfield, Ross, Schmidt, etc…… and can hit a barn door, the size of a an A4 bit of paper at 100 mtrs then have a go.

NOTE : This year it will run from Jan- Dec and will be 2 cards for each category.


Contact information for Geoff "bigduke6" (http://www.milsurps.com/member.php?u=3370):

Send email to: vcmedals@yahoo.co.uk
Send PM to: bigduke6 - Military Surplus Collectors Forums (http://www.milsurps.com/private.php?do=newpm&u=3370)

[Entry Level]

Here are two targets to welcome the new competition.New Gibbs reproduction 03a4 and 1943 Enfield without scope, also photo of rifles. Good shooting everyone.

310243102531026

[bigduke6]

EL,

Excellent start, to 2012.

[jmoore]

Last seen in the Armistice Day range report ( Armistice Day at the Range (http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=34521) ) , the 1918 BSACo. No.1 Mk.III* (rebarreled in 1926) just had to come out and play. We've been together since about 1978.

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/03/jmoorestuff013-1.jpg
http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/03/jmoorestuff012-1.jpg

A little bit frustrating, but target #1 is my first entry for 2012:

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/03/jmoorestuff0151-1.jpg

My first Enfield, and still a favorite- except when trying to dial the sights in exactly so. Because target two shows what happens then:

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/03/jmoorestuff01611-1.jpg
Note- don't use this target as an entry!

For some reason, when the sights are adjusted, the first couple of rounds don't go where you expect them to. Settling in?

So this rifle will be back later. Once some sorting is done. (Considering it's not tuned in any sense, it still tries to shoot fairly well, no?)

[bigduke6]

Nice one Jmoore, I,ve yet to test my 1926 lithgow out after rebarreling, am at the indoor range on Sunday 50mtrs so will run some downloads through, next time at 100 mtrs will be the Lithgow and the L42 repro.

[Entry Level]

Here are two targets to welcome the new competition.New Gibbs reproduction 03a4 and 1943 Enfield without scope, also photo of rifles. Good shooting everyone.

310243102531026

We shot a Military Benchrest match today so I will submit 2 targets. The 1943 Mark 4 T shot well today. here is a 100 yard target with scope, the target on the right was the best out of 20 rounds for score. I am posting another Gibbs Rifle target with a different load. This 150 grain fmj shot better than the SMK.

3188031882

[fn111557]

1944 I.B.M. (AO) M1 carbine:

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2011/05/No2_01-1.jpg

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/03/IBMao3_11-1.jpg

:dancingbanana:

---------- Post added at 10:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 PM ----------


My second entry for 2010;

First an observation I have made. My front sight is WAY TOO SHORT! When holding on target as shown in (figure 1), at 50 yards POI is about 8” above target. When holding as shown in (figure 2) POI is around 6 o-clock on target. It is very hard to get this sight picture correct, so I decided to get a new taller front sight before I shoot this gun again.
http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/03/SightingM48-1.jpg

Yugo M48B (MMC import):

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2011/09/M48B-1.jpg

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/03/M48B3_11-1.jpg

:dancingbanana:

[Entry Level]

Before you change a sight post try a target at 200 yards. Make sure your rear sight is as low as it will go. Hold in the conventional manner and check your strike. The picture looks to me as if the rear sight is elevated. Neat art work! Thanks

[fn111557]

No misunderstanding. I have checked the fit and function of rear sight, nice and tight and as low as it will go. I only have a max 100yrd range to shoot at, with a normal sight picture, 6 o-clock hold, I am hitting almost the top of the berm! I may try super glueing a BB on top of the front sight, that may get me in range. Sort of like looking down the barrel of a shot gun! LOL
Thanks for the responce.
Fred

[gunner]

Here is my first target! Not the best but a target. Shot yesterday with my .30M1 Carbine, 100m prone position off hand.

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/03/IMAG0196-1.jpg

A bit bigger

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/03/IMAG0195-1.jpg

Hard to see but it was a 10, 3x a 9 and a 8.

[jmoore]

:DThis one ought to fall under the category "you never know until you try". Bore is smooth-ish except for the giant nasty patches of barnacles. But off to the range we went for the first time yesterday. Nine rounds downrange total (EVER) before shooting the target for score.


http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/03/jmoorestuff048-1.jpg
http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/03/jmoorestuff0551-1.jpg
http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/03/jmoorestuff024-1.jpg
http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/03/jmoorestuff038-1.jpg

It shoots just a little left, and recoils just a whole lot! :eek: Big fireballs, too. But the sights?:thup: All they need is a little tritium insert and they would be fine for a modern combat weapon! Haven't been this pleased with a rifle in a long time.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Ulrich, how about participating in the BDMP .30M1 Carbine competition?

[gunner]

Patrick, tomorrow we have the Bavarian Championship with the .30M1 Carbine and i give it a try. Lets see how well i can do it!

[Patrick Chadwick]

But the sights? All they need is a little tritium insert and they would be fine for a modern combat weapon! Haven't been this pleased with a rifle in a long time.

If you practise a bit, you can sit the image of the standard 8" target black neatly in the foresight cut-out at 100 meters. Not the usual sight picture, but quite effective for target shooting.

[jmoore]

If you practise a bit, you can sit the image of the standard 8" target black neatly in the foresight cut-out at 100 meters. Not the usual sight picture, but quite effective for target shooting.

Practice? It happens quite naturally!

[Patrick Chadwick]

Practice? It happens quite naturally!


It may happen quite naturally, but until you have cleaned out the barnacles and all those shots are in the 9 or 10, practice won't hurt! (But the recoil will!) BTW, the front sight on the one I tried out had indeed been painted with luminous yellow paint by the previous owner, a hunter who had used it as a brush rifle. He probably found that target acquisition with the yellow "saddle" was faster than with a blade type foresight.

[jmoore]

and all those shots are in the 9 or 10


:lol:

Patrick in case you haven't noticed, I have yet to turn in a target from any rifle with all 9s and 10s! Even scoped, I think. About the only rifles I can plop down and do that are M1As. And not all of them. But we disqualified them as the receivers aren't milsurp.

[Patrick Chadwick]

That's why I like shooting old service rifles. Unlike those nervous hole punchers who feel it's a bad day if they don't score 100/100, in competitions that are decided by the number of 10Xs, we milsurp shooters can feel happy to score a 10 at all with our old bangers. And don't do yourself down! The Berthier target shows 3 shots very nicely grouped. A somewhat milder reload of those cases, neck-sized, with bullets seated to suit the transition cone, could well make that group tight enough to be "all in the 9" quality with, perhaps, a little nudge of the foresight.

[bigduke6]

That's why I like shooting old service rifles. Unlike those nervous hole punchers who feel it's a bad day if they don't score 100/100, in competitions that are decided by the number of 10Xs, we milsurp shooters can feel happy to score a 10 at all with our old bangers.

One of the reasons I got this comp/shoot off the ground Patrick, and its what you say regarding the nervous hole punchers, I,ve seen them with all the kit worth over $4500 + and cant hit a barn door, I do get great pleasure shooting a $200 millsurp with some history, runs on cheap ammo and in some cases not a bad a score at the end of the day.
A quick pull through with a few patches, a wipe over on the wood work with linseed oil, and its ready for its next outing.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Speaking as a one-time nervous hole-puncher myself (but that was half a century ago, I've calmed down a bit since then!) - how do you like this group, in the style of "get as close as you can to the middle without actually hitting it"?
32523

The rifle is obviously centered well enough.
If anyone has a ballistic explanation of this hollow group, I would be pleased to hear it. Otherwise I can only conclude it is a statistical freak.

:wave:
Patrick

[gunner]

Is it a Indian made one? Than they have to be afraid of hitting a bull!:madsmile::D

[HOOKED ON HISTORY]

Entry Level

Might I suggest an audition for the show Top Shot?

[jmoore]

Entry Level

Might I suggest an audition for the show Top Shot?

Long way to go for a try out. Patrick's in Germany! I'd rather have him here anyway- hiding in the computer.....

[bigduke6]

First one from me this year, but have had the hands full with the little one, anyway range report in the normal threads, was using a L42 lookalike, and more of a test run but pleased so far, using downloads for this card,

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/06/DSCF4602-1.jpg

[fn111557]

Looks like “bigduke” had an extra cup of java, then tried for the inverted “hollow group”, to match Patrick’s entry in the NERVOUS HOLE-PUNCHER category.
Or else he felt sorry for the rest of us and threw that last shot out of the 10 ring on purpose.
Either way it is GREAT SHOOTING!

[bigduke6]

Thanks fn, but it was down to the rifle and scope, I was just squeezing the trigger !! In truth a lot more to do with the downloaded ammo, but an enjoyable day was had.
Pics of the rifle in the range reports. (backsight was removed to bore sight it, as I thought it was trouble with windage slip ring, but was the locking ring that was loose).

[gunner]

Hey, you´ve set the level very high! Great shooting! Will do the next week my first one.

[jmoore]

I think the temps need to get a bit cooler before I do much rifle shooting again. Over 100 degrees F for a high today. what's that in C? Ummmm--((F-32)x5)/9=~39 degrees C....Makes for not just discomfort but more importantly- rusty rifles!

So we've been having a big time with the S&Ws lately. Addictive it is shooting the wheel guns at 25 and 50 yards. Wishing now the monthly IHMSA matches were still held locally. They were buckets of fun!

But at any rate, I plan to have some more entries here. Just got off track shooting "non-appropriate" stuff.

[bigduke6]

Just wonder if there would be any interest in a 25 yard/mtrs shoot/comp for the .22 milsurp trainers etc. May open a few more doors for members, any thoughts ?

[gsimmons]

I would be interested,I don't have a 100 yard range near anymore. I have a .22 Patt. 14 I'd like to use, and a couple No.2 rifles.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jmoore]

Just wonder if there would be any interest in a 25 yard/mtrs shoot/comp for the .22 milsurp trainers etc. May open a few more doors for members, any thoughts ?

In addition to the 100yd class?

I have a Romanian .22 trainer that was waiting for a trip to generate the 100yd targets. It shot very well on the previous outing but i was out of "official" targets.

[fn111557]

I would love to see a rimfire class added. That gives me an excuse to buy a new(old) rifle. I have seen several listed at SOG, AIM, etc... great chance to exercise the ole C&R!

[bigduke6]

In addition to the 100yd class?

Thats the plan JM, will run it alongside the 100yd class, just thought it may help a few who dont have the access to a 100 yrd range.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Originally Posted by
bigduke6
Just wonder if there would be any interest in a 25 yard/mtrs shoot/comp for the .22 milsurp trainers etc. May open a few more doors for members, any thoughts ?

jmoore
In addition to the 100yd class? I have a Romanian .22 trainer that was waiting for a trip to generate the 100yd targets. It shot very well on the previous outing but i was out of "official

Here you go then ... first target at 25 meters (wimps can use 25 yards:D)

35028
Not wishing to waste my RWS competition ammo, I used ordinary pistol match. Good enough for a start, I think.

[bigduke6]

Thanks Patrick, can you give me the size of the target, as I need to update the start of the post regarding the addition of the 25 mtr/yrds and also have to find a standard target for this.

[Patrick Chadwick]

The target used was the ISSF target used for air pistols at 10 meters, which should be readily available in most countries. It was not possible to use the copied-down ISSF target with the 20 cm black, as it was raining in squalls like a tropical monsoon, and normal office copy paper would have disintegrated in less than a minute. And the card targets didn't last long either. A friend on the 100 meter firing point, trying to shoot a 15-shot round, had to give up when his target simply collapsed and fell off the frame. As it was, I had to run out to get this target, dab off the water which was running down, and lay it out to dry for some time before even packing it loosely into my shooting box with the other soggy targets.

FWIW, here are the dimension:
10 ring 11,5 mm
9 ring 27,5 mm
8 ring 43,5 mm
7 ring 59,5 mm
10x ring 5 mm

At first glance this seems to be an odd series, but like the standard 50 meter target for the .22s, it is supposed to give a round-number (16mm) progression, apart from the 10x, when evaluated according to the center of the shot hole, the effective "inner edge" scoring sizes then being 7, 23, 39, 54 (when using 0.17" / 4.45mm air rifle/pistol projectiles) and the 10X means that the shot would be touching an 0.5 mm spot!

[fn111557]

Here is my offering from my 1943 IBM M1 carbine. It shoots a lot better than I can.

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/08/MSC_car1_081212-1.jpg

[jmoore]

Two entries today.

.22rf :

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/08/d2b019d1-1.jpg

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/08/804ecb31-1.jpg
I just got this rifle back from a friend a couple of weeks ago. He had it for several years and never shot it...

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/08/5e84d421-1.jpg

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/08/cd5b0b48-1.jpg

It's my "first" Garand. But the only part that remains is the receiver of that first. It's all 1943 parts now, including an uncut op rod.

[Patrick Chadwick]

That first target is really very good for a 22 at 100 yards!

[jmoore]

That first target is really very good for a 22 at 100 yards!


If the ammo wasn't running out I might have tried more. Target #2 after a drama filled zeroing effort (The elevation knob grub screw had backed off...) was centered elevation but off to the right a little. Possibly due to the fact that the target had a darker right hand zone just off paper but still in the field of view in the peep. (ETA: or maybe the elevation lead screw isn't altogether straight- seems to be bowed a bit.) Only four rounds left out of an ancient box of Remington target ammo at that point, so I just moved on to other things.

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/08/e7381957-1.jpg
Stupidly enough, I didn't realize that there enough rounds to shoot the second target until I took this photo and saw the other five hiding on the opposite side of the box. It was a partial to begin with, and the first and only ammo tried this day. I don't remember CCI Green Tag shooting all that well out of this rifle, which is excellent out of the Win 52s.

[bigduke6]

Both nice rifles JM, and both on my wish list but the only way we can have a Garrand is if its a straight pull (no semi auto) and needs cocking every time, as for the M1922 been looking for one for sometime.
On the Subject of the M1922 and one of my previous posts will start the .22 comp (25 mtr/yrd) at the start of next year and run it the same as the 100 mtr/yard.

[jmoore]

the only way we can have a Garrand is if its a straight pull (no semi auto) and needs cocking every time

So that would sort of put it in the "modified" class automatically? Or do we take pity on the poor things? I don't think it would help accuracy much if at all.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Semi-autos are surely dimensioned so that the bullet has alread exited the muzzle when the gas piston gets going, so the vibration caused by the reloading action cannot affect accuracy (can it?). If the same rifle seems to be less accurate when operating as a semi-auto, my observation at the .30M1 carbine competition on Saturday was that the shooters tend to get into a slighty hectic rhythm, quite simply not taking the same care as they would with a single-shot or repeating rifle.

So I would allow it.

[bigduke6]

Never give it much thought regarding which class, I think it has to go in the modified one.
To be honest the only straight pulls we tend to get are the AR15 variants, there is now the L1A1 which is on the market, and I have seen a M14 but this was several years ago, there is someone in the UK now making the M1 carbine as a straight pull, and there were a few made a few years ago.

I sold my AR15 (based on the M4) few years back great rifle but always had probs feeding or extracting and the bolt locking up, very fussy on the ammo etc, looked the part but on the range a real pain at times, guess in semi auto it would of done well, but I,d had enough at the end of the day, and sold it, cant complain as I bought more Enfields with cash from the sale.

I am looking at one of the L1A1,s that are being assembled here as straight pulls, but I,m looking at a different calibre than .308, I,ll go into that a bit more at a later date......

[fn111557]

Semi-autos are surely dimensioned so that the bullet has alread exited the muzzle when the gas piston gets going, so the vibration caused by the reloading action cannot affect accuracy (can it?). If the same rifle seems to be less accurate when operating as a semi-auto, my observation at the .30M1 carbine competition on Saturday was that the shooters tend to get into a slighty hectic rhythm, quite simply not taking the same care as they would with a single-shot or repeating rifle.

So I would allow it.

Not quite a scientific experiment but, I have a Yugoslavian SKS. I have tried 5 shot groups in standard semi-auto mode, and change over the gas selector for 5 shot groups in single shot mode, several times. I have let my friends try this also, and without exception, ALL single shot groups were ALWAYS tighter than when shot in semi-auto mode. Just my $.02

[jmoore]

Not quite a scientific experiment but, I have a Yugoslavian SKS. I have tried 5 shot groups in standard semi-auto mode, and change over the gas selector for 5 shot groups in single shot mode, several times. I have let my friends try this also, and without exception, ALL single shot groups were ALWAYS tighter than when shot in semi-auto mode. Just my $.02

M14s don't have an accuracy change, generally, when shutting the gas off, but the POI does shift. Garands? Due to the gas port location, I can't see it being of much importance. Other than that, I don't have much opinion, except if it gets folks to contribute, then by all means, be accomodating. It's not like we're contesting a big trophy or cash prize!

[JohnMOhio]

I read that you guys were looking for a 50 yard small bore target to use. I thought that you might be able to use this one. Can increase the size to 100% and then print it off.

I saved the one you folks have for printing to shoot the milsurps competition but not sure if the size is correct. Not familiar with those diameters in mm. I am printing them off on an starndard 8 1/2 X 11 sheet of paper. Once I get to the range, I will submit mine and hope they are the correct size. Will just scan them into my computer.

Best Regards,
JohnMOhio

[jmoore]

I saved the one you folks have for printing to shoot the milsurps competition but not sure if the size is correct.

I print them from bigduke6's link. My printer actually makes tham about 90-95 percent of full scale, but since I'm shooting at 100 yards rather than 100 meters it isn't a worry.

[bigduke6]

It's not like we're contesting a big trophy or cash prize!

Thats the whole idea JM, But I may knock something up in the future.....

[Patrick Chadwick]

My printer actually makes tham about 90-95 percent of full scale, but since I'm shooting at 100 yards rather than 100 meters it isn't a worry.


So all you have to do now is to size down the bullets to 90% of their original diameter, and you have kept the same proportions - right?:madsmile::lol:

[jmoore]

So all you have to do now is to size down the bullets to 90% of their original diameter, and you have kept the same proportions - right?:madsmile::lol:

Hmmm, I seem to have just the rifle to do that. But it's not a milsurp, although I got it from one our members due to it's Lee-Enfield/Mauser derivation.

[l1a1 breakdown]

3933639337I only recently found this site and more recently found these excellent range reports and friendly online matches - brilliant!

I rooted around my photo file and recovered this shoot from Jan 2012 - I'm not sure if the target was perfectly to standard - I still have it....just posting this for fun as I work on printing the official targets to scale for use later.

Info - Mid January 2012, temps in the low 30f range, no wind. 100 yard (silhouette) target, milsurp Kynock 1951 mk7 FMJ. Seated bench, with sandbag wall, sling and me in layers and a parker!
The rifle is a 1955 Faz. no4Mk2 - virtually unfired with a parker hale twin zero sight - 6 hole aperture disk diopter.

The photo paint edit is to remove a tear in the target (I took photos of the target when I was home....) I have a photo without the edit. I need to work on pulling the "satellite 3" into the POA...very happy to group 2 and 3 together though!

Happy New Year!

[fn111557]

? ? ?
When we start doing the small bore .22LR, can I use my Twins? I know they are NOT MilSurp, but they do look like it. Here is an out of the box sample, let me know what you think!

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/12/WP_000048-1.jpg

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/12/WP_000051-1.jpg

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/12/WP_000049-1.jpg

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/12/WP_000050-1.jpg

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/12/WP_000054-1.jpg

After shooting my Ruger 10/22 at random clay target bits to warm it up (~40 rounds), I shot 10 rounds at the center target of the 2 sample targets. This was just to use as a reference as what the ammo was doing. I then shot 1 10 round magazine at each of the 4 remaining targets in the following order; Top-Left, Top-Right, Bottom-Left, Bottom-Right.
The M1 target, using 6o-clock POA hold. After shooting the Top-Left group I added 1 more turn of left windage to the sight before continuing.
http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/12/WP_000059-1.jpg

On the M1A1 targets I remembered to use center POA hold, BUT forgot to reset elevation to 3. Therefore the shot group above the Bottom-Left target was my first group aiming at center of Top-Left. The group IN the Top-Left target was my second group aimed at center POA with the elevation set at 3. Then groups were shot at Top-Right, then Bottom Right.
http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/12/WP_000060-1.jpg

[jmoore]

I would be OK with a "Look Alike" class or two.

BTW, if I don't have enough posted targets for a particular rifle, there's probably enough old ones on file to make up the shots. Was going to shoot some more at the end of the year, but hunting and a week long "bug" sort of squashed that plan.

[bigduke6]

To all who took part last year a big thanks, to the armchair readers please feel free to join in, just print, buy or make your own targets to the size at the start of the thread, (I didnt get as much range time as normal but thats due to the new member of the family, hopefully in the coming years she will be joining me at the range).

It was with this in mind I thought the .22 would open a few more doors,

I intend to run the .22 comp alongside the fullbore one am just looking at what targets to use that are available to all, JohnMOhio has posted a link for a possible 50 yrd/ mtr,

Just a 25 yrd/mtr one to look at, in the leauge I shoot it is a card of 10 small targets, just want to keep it international etc. (all comments welcome)

Will ask Badger to work his magic and post the 2013 shoot/comp etc in the next week or so.

Was looking at the .22 as a add on to catagory 6 in the normal comp, and for the variations, iron sight, scope etc will carry the same number as the full bore, so if you shooting your .22 at 25/50 yrd/mtr please mention it as catagory 6.1, 6.2, 6.3, 6.4 and 6.5 will be the repro trainers etc.

Think this may be best way or do we require 2 seperate threads ?? as I said all comments welcome.

[jmoore]

Here's target #2 from August 17 with the Springfield M2 :

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2013/01/8e33526d-1.jpg

(see Post #38)

Also, might as well score the second target in Post #4 (that says "not for score").

Can't find more for the Garand or the Lebel.

[fn111557]

bigduke6, first off there will be NO whining or crying, when your daughter starts to outshot you at the range.
That said, I think you have the perfect idea with the “6.1, 6.2, 6.3, etc…” small bore classification;
6.1 – Original small bore as issued (WZ-78, M-69, 44US, etc…)
6.2 – Same as above with changed iron sights
6.3 – Same as .1 with ANY scope or added optics
6.4 – Open Small Bore, to include commercial rimfire stock or modified, ie. “Ruger 10/22”. Commercial arms, stock or modified, can ONLY be shown in this class. (changed barrel, modified trigger, addition of bipods or rests to stock, etc…)
6.5 – STOCK small bore military reproductions (m1-22, stg-44, m15-22, etc…)
If any changes or modifications are done to one of the STOCK reproductions, just re classify as above. Change the iron sights (some people have replaced the poly sights on the M1-22 with steel sights from Kensington with better results to them) you now have class “6.5.2”. Add a scope or holo sight to your M15-22, class is now “6.5.3”

If there is an objection to the addition of “commercial” rifles in class 6.4 they can be removed. I just figured if you have modified an original “Military Trainer” to this extent, you might as well have something from modern standards to gauge it against. Also by keeping it to the ONLY class that commercial rifles can compete in, whether it is stock or modified makes no difference.

Just my $0.02, and I have no clue what the target should be. I do hope that the range is set to 25 yards/meters as most of my indoor ranges are limited to this distance.
Looking forward to a FUN YEAR ahead, and a Happy New Year to ALL!

[l1a1 breakdown]

3935939360Just checking to see if I scaled these correctly - I used 112% scale to get the ring radiuses to the numbers specified.

Also found a second target for the Faz. 1955 No4Mk2 with TZ sight - this time from Aug 2012 with Sellier & Bellot 150g FMJ.

Looking forward to this years shoot n post fun!

[bigduke6]

bigduke6, first off there will be NO whining or crying, when your daughter starts to outshot you at the range.
That said, I think you have the perfect idea with the “6.1, 6.2, 6.3, etc…” small bore classification;
6.1 – Original small bore as issued (WZ-78, M-69, 44US, etc…)
6.2 – Same as above with changed iron sights
6.3 – Same as .1 with ANY scope or added optics
6.4 – Open Small Bore, to include commercial rimfire stock or modified, ie. “Ruger 10/22”. Commercial arms, stock or modified, can ONLY be shown in this class. (changed barrel, modified trigger, addition of bipods or rests to stock, etc…)
6.5 – STOCK small bore military reproductions (m1-22, stg-44, m15-22, etc…)
If any changes or modifications are done to one of the STOCK reproductions, just re classify as above. Change the iron sights (some people have replaced the poly sights on the M1-22 with steel sights from Kensington with better results to them) you now have class “6.5.2”. Add a scope or holo sight to your M15-22, class is now “6.5.3”

If there is an objection to the addition of “commercial” rifles in class 6.4 they can be removed. I just figured if you have modified an original “Military Trainer” to this extent, you might as well have something from modern standards to gauge it against. Also by keeping it to the ONLY class that commercial rifles can compete in, whether it is stock or modified makes no difference.

Just my $0.02, and I have no clue what the target should be. I do hope that the range is set to 25 yards/meters as most of my indoor ranges are limited to this distance.
Looking forward to a FUN YEAR ahead, and a Happy New Year to ALL!

fn111557,

Thanks for the input, 25 yrd would be norm, just wonder if its worth 50 yrd also? I,m lucky as my indoor club has a 50 yrd/mtr range also.
I would like to leave the commercial stuff out, but if it helps others and gets a few interested in milsurps then I cant see the harm. I,m not planning to relist the catagories but will reword them to suit all, fullbore and small bore etc.

Any other thoughts anyone

[gunner]

Hi all,

sorry for my long absence at the forums and the Competition. My job was very stressy the last year, but i hope to take part at the new years competition.

All the best and all in the bull!:thup:

[Patrick Chadwick]

Welcome back Ulrich!

[bigduke6]

Hi all,

sorry for my long absence at the forums and the Competition. My job was very stressy the last year, but i hope to take part at the new years competition.

All the best and all in the bull!:thup:


No problem Ulrich, Its a sign of the times when work gets in the way and we cant get out to do what we love, I did a lot of extra time at work last year, in which it got to the stage the first few days home the little one was thinking " who is this strange bloke"

I hope to get more time at the range this year, have saved up a lot of leave from the last two years.

[bigduke6]

[/B][/B]2012 results, any mistakes or I,ve missed any one out please PM me.


CAT 1

Member.................... score........v (x) bull.........total...........rifle.


fn111557...................42/49.................. ............. 91 ....... .30 M1 M1 carbine (IBM)

jmoore......................39/47.................................86 ....... .303 SMLE No1 Mk111*

Entry Level...................48...............X........ ........48.1........ .303 No4 Mk1 (T) scopeless

gunner.........................45................. ..................45 ........ .30 M1 M1 carbine

jmoore .......................43......................... ..........43 ....... .3006 M1 Garrand

fn111557......................41.................. .................41 ........ 7.92mm Yugo M48 B

jmoore.........................40................. ..................40 ........ 8x50 French Lebel




CAT 2

Member.................... score........v (x) bull.........total...........rifle.


l1a1 breakdown.........45/44............XXXX..........89.4......... .303 No4 Mk2 (PH T/Z)



CAT 3

Member.................... score........v (x) bull.........total...........rifle.


Entry Level..................49/50..........XX........ ......99.2......... .3006 M1903a4 (Gibbs repro)

Entry Level...................50..............XX........ ......50.2......... .303 No4 Mk1 (T) (no32 Mk1)



CAT 4

Member.................... score........v (x) bull.........total...........rifle.


bigduke6......................49.................. ...............49...........7.62mm L42 Repro (No32 Mk3)


CAT 6

Member.................... score........v (x) bull.........total...........rifle.


jmoore........................46/45.............................91 ............ .22 M1922 M2