Need advice on K98k Mauser

[hunt-n-peck]

Hello, I am new to this site and would like some advice/info on 8mm mauser wwII that I have. It is possibly a war capture, but would like some help.

This rifle belonged to my brother-in-law's godfather. I'm not sure if he was in the war or not. He inherited it when his godmother died and other than that I know nothing about it, only what I learned on-line. Thats when I decided to refer to your web sight. It seems to have a wealth of knowledge.

Here are the pics I took today. If there are any other areas of the gun that are of interest just let me know.thanks again.

Thank for the help.

hunt-n-peck

ps. The writing is where I began my search. I thought maby it was the last name of a soldier. Thats where it gets interesting!

[Badger]

hello,I am new to this site and would like some advice/info on 8mm mauser wwII that I have. it is possibly a war capture,but would like some help.I have pics but have no idea how to navigate this site.

If you email me pics and describe all markings you can see on the Mauser, I'll host and post them in your query thread here, so everyone can respond.

Regards,
Badger
badger@milsurps.com

[Badger]

Received an email from hunt-n-peck with pics and more information. I cleaned up and edited his post, as well as added pics for him.

Let's see if we can help him out now with better information ... :)

Here's my contribution....... :cheers:

You had a very valuable rifle, but unfortunately, someone did some things to it, which adversely affects its value ... :(

Here's the GOOD news. :thup:

There's an old expression, "buy the rifle, not the story", so it's hard to know if indeed the inscription on the butt of your rifle is authentic and the rifle was captured at Cherbourg on June 27th, 1944. If I were to guess after hearing your provenance, I'd say it was a capture and that the inscription is authentic, which does add some aura about the rifle's history, but let's value and look at it pretending it had no inscription.

Check out our Germany - Milsurp Knowledge Library (click here) (http://www.milsurps.com/forumdisplay.php?f=15).

You'll find an entry for a 1942 Code byf K98k (Karabiner 98) Rifle (click here) (http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=810) manufactured in 1942 by Mauser Werke AG, Oberndorf a/N.

Your rifle is the same as this, except your serial number is 6677(t) and the serial number of the BYF 42 in our Knowledge Library entry is 9607(f).

Your rifle appears to be "all matching" and "all correct" for the components that are present on it, just like the one in the Knowledge Library. I can't tell from your pics, but I would also bet the individual bolt components (including the firing pin) match, as does the bolt itself does to the rifle now.

Unless you know how to take the bolt apart to check, please don't do so, as you could have parts flying all over the place. If you really want to check to see if the firing pin matches, check out our on-line "Screening Room" (click here) (http://www.milsurps.com/forumdisplay.php?f=46). There's a video titled German K98k Bolt "Stripping & Assembling" (click here) (http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=3237), courtesy of MILSURPS.COM member "CmpsdNoMore", which will help you out.

Finally, all of the WaA manufacturer numbers appear correct for an Oberndorf made rifle of that year of manufacture. You would have to remove the wood (hand guard and stock) to find out if the serial numbers of the rifle appear stamped on the inside of the wood components.

Here's what it looks like on our Knowledge Library entry BYF 42 serial 9607(f):

http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerdog/germanservicerifles/1942byf42oberndorfk98k/icons/DSC00604%20_Medium_.JPG(Click PIC to Enlarge)http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerdog/germanservicerifles/1942byf42oberndorfk98k/icons/DSC00607%20_Medium_.JPG

Now, for the BAD news.... :thdown:

Someone has decided to "sporterize" this old girl. By that I mean they cut back the wood (hand guard and stock) as far as the lower barrel band. The upper barrel band, which would be serial numbered 6677 is missing (do you have it someplace?), as is the retaining band spring which helps hold it in place. This "sporterizing" was often done to these old milsurps by hunters, who felt it improved accuracy by allowing the barrel to float more freely back to the receiver, without the military wood fore stocks getting in the way and binding against the barrel as it heats up.

Here's what's missing and how looks on our Knowledge Library entry BYF 42 serial 9607(f):

http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerdog/germanservicerifles/1942byf42oberndorfk98k/icons/DSC00393%20_Medium_.JPG(Click PIC to Enlarge)http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerdog/germanservicerifles/1942byf42oberndorfk98k/icons/DSC00453%20_Medium_.JPG


So, bottom line.....

If the rifle had not been "sporterized" and had its full military wood, serial numbered upper barrel band and band spring, plus perhaps the front sight protector, it would easily sell for somewhere north of $2,000 to a collector. I've seen some of them lately go for up to $2,500. Add the "story" and inscription and on a good day with competitive bidding at an auction, I don't think the latter number is unreasonable.

However, with the deficiencies, the value is probably about $800 - $1,000 "as is", but if you found a new stock set along with the other missing components, it could go for more than that at auction, after they had been swapped out and it was restored to full military configuration. Perhaps up to $1,500 as a guess, again depending upon who's bidding at auction. Remember, if you did restore it, make sure you keep the original wood with this rifle, as it most likely has the original serial number stamped inside of it.

Hope this helps and keep in mind, this is just my opinion. I'm sure you'll get other valuable feedback from some of the much more experienced k98k Mauser collectors here, than I am....

Regards,
Badger

[Claven2]

I agree with most of Badger's summation, except that I think hi valuation on the "sporterized state" of the rifle is far too high. In my personal opinion, it was a $2,000 rifle that is now only a $250 rifle.

Replacing the stock will never make it matching again, only restored. Restored K98k's are $450 rifles at best.

[Steve1973]

Hey, this is just like the Price is Right!

I am going to say somewhere between the two fellas above. Bolt mismatched K98's seem to go for around $700-900 so I would think this one would get at least $500 but probably not more than $800. An established K98 collector probably wouldn't buy it for the sporterized stock and missing front band but for someone just getting into K98 collecting, this would be a great step up from a Russian Capture or other refurbed rifle. My two cents... :wave:

[Milsurp Collector]

I agree with Steve's valuation of $500-800.

This would make a nice restoration project. It could be restored two different ways:


Replace the entire stock and handguard with another 1942 byf set. Norwegian-surrender stocks are a good replacement source.
Repair the current stock by replacing the missing wood with wood from a donor stock and handguard. The joints could be hidden under the lower band. Many vet-bringback rifles have a "duffle cut" in the same location. Replacement upper band, spring, and bayonet lug would have to be obtained. The advantage of this approach is keeping the original serial-numbered stock and handguard. The hard part is finding a donor stock with the right color and patina.

[Sigismund]

To help put weight on the price, I would say 800 is a good price tag for this rifle. With that said, these days, your rifle could go for 1500 at auction. But, that would more likely be due to the tenasity of the bidders than the real worth of the rifle.

The background story of the rifle does add its own price, as it stands out from so many others.

[Claven2]

To help put weight on the price, I would say 800 is a good price tag for this rifle. With that said, these days, your rifle could go for 1500 at auction. But, that would more likely be due to the tenasity of the bidders than the real worth of the rifle.

The background story of the rifle does add its own price, as it stands out from so many others.

One thing I will say, regardless of the rifle's base value, caveat emptor - always buy the rifle, never the story that goes with it.

In absence of capture documentation, it's just another (unfortunately) sporterized original.

[Sigismund]

One thing I will say, regardless of the rifle's base value, caveat emptor - always buy the rifle, never the story that goes with it.

In absence of capture documentation, it's just another (unfortunately) sporterized original.


Agree completly, however, not all buyers think this way. If this was to go at auction, this kind of thing will drive up the price.

[Greg]

The rifle may not have been "sporterized" as we know and might think.

It might be a vet bringback duffle cut on the stock at the front sling band. The cut piece and metal was lost or never attempted to be repaired.

There are many duffle cut K98's that were sawed at the sling band.

[Claven2]

The rifle may not have been "sporterized" as we know and might think.

It might be a vet bringback duffle cut on the stock at the front sling band. The cut piece and metal was lost or never attempted to be repaired.

There are many duffle cut K98's that were sawed at the sling band.

If it were a duffle cut, would the cut not generally be UNDER the band?

http://www.milsurps.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2038&d=1216809308

[Greg]

If it were a duffle cut, would the cut not generally be UNDER the band?

http://www.milsurps.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2038&d=1216809308

Good point, but if it were Sporterized, usually the sling band is gone as well as
more wood on the stock behind that band.
I've see duffle cuts through the butt stock, through the trigger guard and through the sling band area.

Bad judgement and placement of the saw, some dufflecuts are better than others.

[Steve1973]

Maybe the cutter wanted to keep the handguard/rear band after sporterizing it so he left a little wood in front of it to add stability and keep the rear band on a little better. Sure, after the first shot the rear band/handguard would fly off from the recoil, but maybe that was the mindset with the cut pictured.

[Claven2]

Maybe the cutter wanted to keep the handguard/rear band after sporterizing it so he left a little wood in front of it to add stability and keep the rear band on a little better. Sure, after the first shot the rear band/handguard would fly off from the recoil, but maybe that was the mindset with the cut pictured.

Nope! Notice in the pic of the whole rifle, it looks like the band has been drilled and screwed to the forestock to prevent it from flying off (also hurts the restoration-ability of the gun.

[hunt-n-peck]

I would just like to say thank-you all for the help and valuable information contributed.

[captk72y]

Kar 98k replacement stocks and handguards are available from Frankonia (Frankonia (www.frankonia.de) ) in Germany Either a laminate or walnut stock sells for 209 Euros. I did not see a bayonet lug in this years catalog however but lots of other 98k parts. Hope this helps, when making a decision as to how to restore your Kar 98k

[Greg]

Repairing a Duffle Cut:

Repairing a "duffle cut" (pics) - Gunboard's Forums (http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=4615)

h ttp://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?t=4615

[touhy]

sorry i'm a little late to the thread :lol:

i agree with greg that this may well have been a duffle cut originally. i had a rifle that was also cut in front of the lower band.

since the numbered upper band and bayo lug are missing, this will always be a mismatch gun. but i think it is well worth the effort to restore it with that original stock. a front piece section would be relatively easy to find off a donor stock.