Bren transit chest plans?

[sinder357]

I just got my bren mk1 and its a dream come true so natrualy i like to show it off but packing it into a normal gun case is chalinging at best so i would like get a transit case for it but i blew all my money on the gun itself so im hopeing to buld one but i have no idea ware to start so i was hopeing someone out ther would have some plans, measurements or pics that i can use or evan better if someone had a real one i could barow and replicate. if i can find something to help me buld one i would be more than happy to make a few of them. so thything helps

[21IPC]

SARCO, in Easton, Pennsylvania, was advertising beat-up BREN transit chests good for parts for $75.00 (I believe) not too long ago. They have a few chests in good condition for about $200 or so. Their phone number is 610-250-3960. A phone call can find out if they still have them.

Cheers,

21IPC

[LesterH]

The transit chest is a good place to keep your Brengun. However it is very heavy when containing a Brengun and tools. Need two people to pick the chest up.
If you are going to build a chest. Build it long enough to contain an Inglis MKII Bren. This was the longest Brengun made.
There was also a short chest to fit the MK III short barrel airbourn version.

I have my Inglis MKII 1943 in a British chest. It only just fits with the flat butt plate fitted.

My other Bren is a Inglis MKIm 1942. This lives in a Royal Navy/Royal Marines 7.62mm Brengun chest. Fits OK. The MKIm is about 2" shorter than the MKII.

Both of my Brengun transit chests were nearly fire wood and had to be sympetheticly repaired. I paid £10 for my British Army chest and £40 for the RN chest.
http://www.cgmilitaria.com have got one on sale for £250. Which is expensive!
Hope the info helps.
Kind regards, Lester

[Peter Laidler]

The original Bren chest was slightly modified to take the Mk2 Bren with the slightly overhung butt plate. If you look under the felt packing at the end, you'll see a slight chamfer in the wood and this chamfer will compress the butt slide buffer, closing up the butt slide just sufficient to allow the Mk2 gun to fit.

All of the Mk3 (and L4) guns that I have ever seen in Army service came with the standard length Bren chest. I never saw a shortened one. The boxes used to carry the Mk3 and L4 guns were modified slightly by screwing in a wooden stop to stop the shorter second barrel rattling about and coming out of its cradle and rolling about loose in the chest

I could be wrong, but I'm sure that the Mk1, Mk1A, Mk1m guns are the same length, certainly within half an inch or so.

If you really want to show your crated gun off Snider, why not put a perspex front onto the chest

[WallyG.]

The pile of chests I have (6 or so) have recesses hacked into the end wall to clear the MkII butt plate... with felt still used as padding. Some type of field expedient... not craftsmanly done.

[Brit plumber]

Lester, I think your shorter box for the MK3 maybe due to a certain dealer selling old Indian Mag 58 boxes as Bren Para Bren boxs, as Peter has said, as far as I'm aware, the Mk3 was supplied in the normal length box as that is what we had, and these could be used for all marks with very little modification. Also, the Inglis Mk2 was the same length as the British Daimler/Monotype Mk2, Both used the butt plate with the over hang to start with. I can also confirm that with the exception of the early Bren Mk2s overhang butt plate, all my Mk2s, Mk1s, Mk1As, Mk1ms from Inglis, Enfield, monotype and Lithgow are all the same size to within millimeters.

[tankhunter]

I have a spare Bren transit chest that I would be willing to swap for a 7.62mm Variant, if anyone wishes to do so?

[LesterH]

Brit Plumber. Thank you for the reply. I only saw an advert on E-bay for the short Bren chest. I did not like the look of it. Just for interest my Inglis MKII Brengun has a flat butt plate and not the over hung butt plate mentioned above. My t,chest has got the chamfer modification. I am told by a retired armourer they locally drilled an extra hole in the chest lids to put the long cleaning rod in.

[Peter Laidler]

Tankie, the standard .303" Bren chest was the same as the 7.62mm L4 variant. Or am I missing something? I seem to remember that the difference - although it made no difference to the chest, was that all the L4 magazines came in the mag box instead of the extra one stuck in the gun chest. Or am I missing something.

Lester and others..... The overhung butt plate for the Mk2 was the Armourers worst enemy. Just put the gun down butt first anything past gently and the overhang will chip the top of the butt meaning that it had to be patched. Then it'd happen again, this time it'd take the screw and thread with it. So we didn't undercut the butt plates into the wood but left the butt plate proud where it overhangs at the top of the butt. But the screw is still prone to damage. So you just binned the overhung, useless butt plate and fitted the later flat ones or just took the guns up to Mk3 spec with Mk3 gun butt plates and short barrels.

I forgot to ask but is there a shortage of Mk2 Inglis guns on the deactivation market? Anyone any comments?

[Kev G]

India made short chests that were universal for the VB,Bren and 7.62mm LMG.

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/03/vblabel-1.jpg

Both barrels were stowed in the chest rather than one left on the gun which saves a lot of space and is far more practical.

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/03/vbchest-1.jpg

I can't help but wonder why no one else did this rather than store more fresh air ?

ATB KG

[Peter Laidler]

I have a funny feeling that these were originally VB gun boxes and it was a case of utilising these for all as opposed to making them especially. They had VB's long before they had Brens. On the other hand, maybe we continued using the original long box because we didn't see any point in having a mixed fleet. Or, maybe common sense prevailed and someone high up the food chain in the Ordnmance world thought about making short ones until someone whispered in his ear '............ if it ain't broke, then don't fix it....!

[LesterH]

Peter, Brens have been in short supply for about a year on the UK D/A market and prices have gone up. Inglis and Lithgow brens are the most common on sale at the moment. Four years ago I paid £215.00 for my 1943 Inglis MKII bren and two years ago I paid £325.00 for a 1942 Inglis MKIm ( and it is a very good one). Average bren worth about £400 retail at the moment. MkI brens are the most sought after, especially if they are Dovetail. In my opinion the Inglis brens are the best made. However both of mine may have been in long term storage and never seen much use. Only tend to see an Enfield bren when someone sells one from their private collection. The trade are buying in Dovetail brens for £400. Hardly any L4 7.62mm brens about other than rough South African Army versions,£650 to £850, but you really have to be despirate if you want one of those!
Thank you for the info in the above posts. Lester

[Brit plumber]

dont under estimate the Lithgow guns, I really like them, they may be common over here due to the 90s imports but they are actually quite scarce, you only need to ask in the USA and Australia to find that they didn't get to many sent over. The price of the SA 7.62mm Brens is absoloutly mad, they couldn't shift them a few years back and now theres a few dealers (UK based) who insist on selling them as L4s at almost L4 prices.

[Kev G]

I have a funny feeling that these were originally VB gun boxes and it was a case of utilising these for all as opposed to making them especially. They had VB's long before they had Brens. On the other hand, maybe we continued using the original long box because we didn't see any point in having a mixed fleet. Or, maybe common sense prevailed and someone high up the food chain in the Ordnmance world thought about making short ones until someone whispered in his ear '............ if it ain't broke, then don't fix it....!

The UK transit chest DDE's for the period India recieved VB's shows the 'normal' length transit chest as do commercial Vickers booklets which I would imagine they would have been exported in.As the UK drawings also refer to the conversion of Lewis and Vickers chests I think it is more of a case of 'make do and mend' rather than 'if it ain't broke....'
I would have thought the original boxes would have lasted until the Bren came into service there ? Is there any mention of this in 'The MGO in India' ?
With the 'concessions in war material and construction of wood boxes in service use' in early 1940 giving alternative timber types and reccomendations for reducing timber thicknesses , making a smaller chest would have helped a gread deal in ecconomising timber usage I would have though regardless of mixed fleets ?
Anyway from cost,materials and logistics a smaller chest with less fresh air as per the smaller Indian version seems a good idea , but then again I have had no dealings the govermental procurement ! :D

[LesterH]

Brit Plumber. I have no problem with Lithgow Brenguns. They only made the Mk1 and then up graded to MKII barrels. Easy to get awy with mis matched parts on a Lithgow. I just seem to prefer Inglis's. D&B militaria charge huge amounts of money for Brens and Bars. They have sold more 7.62mm Brens that served in the Falklands Islands that the ones actually sent there. An empoyee told my friend Sandbags this particular 7.62mm Brengun had been with the Paras in the Falklands Islands. My mate who was in 3 Para, in the Falkland Islands later made a point of showing D&B the photographs two Bren guns they had.
I missed a bargin about four years ago at the War and Peace show. I was buying a L1A1 with wood furniture and a Type 56 AK47 from the Dynce Hill stall. Thay had proper British 7.62mm Brenguns in their transit chests. wood work on these Brens was new and they had extending leg bipods. They were selling them for "only" £650. A year later they were being resold for £1000 to £1200 with no transit chest. Missed my chance to own one! Best regards, Lester

[Brit plumber]

I was only ribbing you Lester, I like the Inglis Brens too. Did the Dince Hill guns look like my L4A3,

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/03/L4A31-1.jpg

Mine is a Interarms refurb/production but I believe all the left over parts from that FTR contract were sold to Dince Hill who carry out there own conversions and are marked as DHH and have markings on the right rather than left (I think anyways). Kev G has one and I'm sure he posted a pic of one a while back. Hopefully he will be along soon to comment further.

Going back to the Lithgow Brens, I reckon I've managed to get most versions now, I'll type a short list up and if anyone can think of any others then let me know (Excuding Trials/experimental)

Mk1 DD
Mk1 A
Mk1 B with dished gas shield
Mk1 B with flat gas shield
Mk1 A upgraded
Mk1 B upgraded
Mk1 FTR with SLAZ Mk2 Butt

[LesterH]

Brit Plumber, Yes, from memory almost identical. Dynce Hill are an armerments procurement company. Obviously making money from "live" arms. D/A guns are a side line. My Type 56 folding stock, AK47 was as new and never used.£120.00. The SLR he sold me was an obvious refurb. However I wanted a 1960 gun. This one was a BSA retro rebuilt to 1960 spec, with wood furniture. Cooling holes instead of slots. This was the only wood SLR on sale at the War and Peace Show that year, for £300. The late Tony Budge of Ryton arms was selling Plastic SLRs fir £375. Tony sold me an SLR bayonet for £7.50. ( He was always a gentleman) Dynce Hill had the scabbards for £10!

[Kev G]

Yes DH recieved MK2 converted bodies to L4A3 spec Enfield marked and also converted MK2 bodies themselves to L4A3.

Brit can you elaborate on what changes you have to differenciate between -
Mk1 A upgraded
Mk1 B upgraded

The very early MKI DD's were also different in that they had the Enfield type machining around the trigger pin. (another variation)
The last variation with the MK2 butt and MA metalwork are also found with the MK2 carry handle (MA marked)

ATB KG