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View Full Version : Argemtine M1911s - Literature?


Promo
03-28-2012, 07:44 PM
Is there any recommendable literature on the Argentine 1911s, from the Colt Commercial to the DGFM/FMAP and Ballester Molina, showing which types and which markings can be found?
Johnny Peppers
03-28-2012, 08:33 PM
Clawson's Colt .45 Government Models has some brief information on the Argentine pistols, and it does cover serial numbers and markings.
jmoore
03-29-2012, 02:43 AM
Clawson's book is what I use as well. Otherwise, what little info is out there is fairly scattered.

Our MKL has this entry:

1942-44 Ballester-Molina (HAFDASA)
“British Contract” .45 Automatic


Link below:
http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=271-1942-44-Ballester-Molina-(HAFDASA)

I've a few Colts with Argentine markings and some Argentine pistols as well. But I'm no expert on the subject!

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/03/jmoorestuff011-2.jpg


http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/03/jmoorestuff0211-1.jpg

A Sistema 1927 with Air Force markings. It's the worst one I have (condition and originality wise- it's a great shooter!) but the only one that's been photographed.

ETA:Oops, not quite! One photo of a Ballister Molina...Naval marked, not that shows here very well...:

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/03/fujicameraupto4120100641-1.jpg

Interesting line of pistols. Don't turn up much any more now that they're not currently being imported in quantity.
Aguila Blanca
05-26-2012, 05:26 PM
The Ballester-Molina and Ballester-Rigaud pistols were NOT 1911s. They didn't have a grip safety and they didn't have a removable, self-contained mainspring housing. IIRC they could use M1911 magazines and barrels, but that was about as far as it went for parts interchange.
Johnny Peppers
05-26-2012, 06:46 PM
They are in the 1911 family, and they are in Clawson's book, and that was the question.
Aguila Blanca
05-27-2012, 08:22 PM
They are in the 1911 family, and they are in Clawson's book, and that was the question.

Not everyone considers them to be in the 1911 family.
Johnny Peppers
05-27-2012, 08:38 PM
Not everyone considers them to be in the 1911 family.

What would you say they were developed from?
jmoore
05-28-2012, 04:23 AM
They could be considered part of the Spanish "Star" design family as well, but if it was good enough for Clawson, it's good enough for me.

It's really kind of what plastic scale modellers call a "kit bash" where two different things are combined to make something a bit different.

If J. Browning had still been around he likely would have called it his, regardless...
Johnny Peppers
05-28-2012, 08:36 AM
Look at the Star Models A and B and see which pistol inspired their design. It wasn't the German Luger.
jmoore
05-28-2012, 10:00 AM
Look at the Star Models A and B and see which pistol inspired their design. It wasn't the German Luger.

Well, maybe Georg Luger not so much, but the P'08 cartridge had some influence!

But saying the Ballister-Rigaud isn't in the 1911 family is the same as saying it's not in the Star family either! It's a happy (for the Argentinians, at least) relative of both.

BTW, why haven't I done some new photos?
srtolly1
05-31-2012, 12:32 AM
I'm a little late getting in on this but I have a Ballester Molina and am trying to figure out if it was a police issue or not. The only marking I can find aside from the Argentine crest is a letter F inside an oval on the right side of the slide between serations. The guy I got it from thought it was police issue. It was in rough shape when I got it and missing th lanyard loop on the butt. I cleaned it up and hit it with some cold blue to protect it. Great shooter. Any help is appreciated.