Somewhat unusual Finnish 91/30 Mosin.

[Anzac15]

Picked up this 1939 Izhevsk 91/30 'Finnish capture' today. It caught my eye as being a tad unusual, the buttstock being the culprit. It appears to have been shaped for some reason. Stock carries the pre war escutcheons, but there do not appear to be any cartouches at all on it (This is an unrefurbished rifle) However, it appears to have been stamped SA on top of the buttstock next to the buttplate. The marking is quite worn, as you can see from the picture. Is it possible this is a Finnish manufactured stock? Also, the upper handguard is lined lenghthwise with some sort of cloth. I'm guessing that the possibility of this rifle being captured during the Winter War is somewhat good, or at least a Continuation War vet. Anyway, pics are included, welcome any and all thoughts and comments. Enjoy!

---------- Post added at 05:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:55 PM ----------

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/04/IMG_3183-1.jpghttp://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/04/IMG_3184-1.jpghttp://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/04/IMG_3185-1.jpghttp://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/04/IMG_3190-1.jpghttp://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/04/IMG_3191-1.jpghttp://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/04/IMG_3192-1.jpghttp://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/04/IMG_3193-1.jpghttp://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/04/IMG_3196-1.jpghttp://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/04/IMG_3196-1.jpghttp://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/04/IMG_3200-1.jpghttp://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/04/IMG_3201-1.jpghttp://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/04/IMG_3203-1.jpghttp://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/04/IMG_3204-1.jpg

[Midmichigun]

I am not a Mosin expert, so I can't really help, but give you a THUMBS UP! I like it!!
I am also curious about the cloth... perhaps some sort of "anti rattle" device??? If the upper handguard was loose???

[Anzac15]

Mid, possibly..as there is just the slightest gap between the upper and lower hand guards. I have never seen a stock like this..again, the stock appears to be pre war, (sling slots) but no cartouches. Also, the wood seems to be different. I have searched 'SA marked stocks', and the consensus is they don't exist. The seller made no mention of an SA marking on the buttstock, I found it when I got it home. The more I look at it, it seems to be non Soviet made. As in Finnish made. It definitely is unusual!

[jmoore]

Look closely at the handguard top surface and see if there is any sign if old splitting. The cloth may have been glued in as reinforcement for a crack.

[Anzac15]

I took a look at the upper hand guard, no sign at all of a crack anywhere on it.

[Anzac15]

Here are some more shots of the stock on the 1939 Izhevsk 'Finn capture' I bought last weekend. I've compared it to the prewar stock on my 1927 Izhevsk ex dragoon. You'll note the stock is thicker in places, some uneven shaping, etc. If this is Finn, then I don't think I've ever seen a one piece on one of these rifles. Every one I have seen so far is the two piece.

---------- Post added at 02:24 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:19 AM ----------

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/05/IMG_3205-1.jpghttp://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/05/IMG_3209-1.jpghttp://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/05/IMG_3211-1.jpghttp://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/05/IMG_3212-1.jpghttp://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/05/IMG_3215-1.jpghttp://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/05/IMG_3217-1.jpg

[ptf18]

Sure wish these old gals could talk

[barbarossa]

Anzac15--I got the brother to your rifle, another Russo Finnish War Capture. It's a 1939 Izhevsk, same prefix series serial number 5282, all matching numbers and never overhauled and shows a lot of use. The stock shellac/stain color is exactly the same too! These two rifles may very well have been made the same day! Mine also has the Finnish "41" marking plus boxed "SA". My rifle has significant shrapnel damage evident on the right hand side, looks like fragments from a bouncing betty type antipersonnel mine. Somebody carrying this rifle had a very bad day. There is also the initial "H.K." carved in the left hand side of the stock with eighteen hash marks underneath. An extremely cool 'been there done that' rifle!

[ptf18]

Anzac15: I was reading about the Finn model Mosin-Nagants and THINK I read that the Finns on one of their models..... maybe the 28... that they modified a very FEW of their stocks simalar to the one you pictured. Do some more looking into this. You may very well have a rare stock

[HOOKED ON HISTORY]

Sure wish these old gals could talk
They can. Just hold them in a quiet setting and look them over and listen closley. No detailed information, but they do speek volumes. Stories of sacrifice,fear, bravery,evil and good.

[Jake Holman]

It could be a Finnish rework, but it has a pot belly so I'm thinking Finn one peice.
The Finns salvaged everything. I have a Finned 91 with a double sling slot
M27 ski rifle butt grafted (two piece Finn style) to a 91 forend.
You never know what your going to find on a Finnish Mosin Nagant.
Here's a good sight on Mosin Nagants including Finnish rifles.
7.62x54r.net (http://7.62x54r.net/)
You can also find out how rare your rifle is on that sight too.

[HOOKED ON HISTORY]

Has anyone gotten a M39 from SOG? Really want a M39!

[jjjxlr8]

Does your rifle have any of the Spanish Civil War features? Like the "USSR" marking on the rear sight base?


Check out this thread on Gunboards...
SCW find. (http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?273007-SCW-find)

Your rifle looks very similar to the SCW rifle that this guy found. Even has the same type of bedding. Very unusual - and cool! :)

I hope you don't mind that I posted some of your photos in the thread above for comparison of the bedding.

[nirvana]

Here's another relative of your Finnish rifle:

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/06/mosin3JPG-1.jpg
http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/06/mosin2JPG-1.jpg
http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/06/mosin1JPG-1.jpg

My rifle, also a 1939 Izhevsk production piece was captured by the Finns, only to be recaptured and rebuilt by the Soviets during one of their postwar overhaul programs. Its a recent import, is all matching, and has all of the standard hallmarks of being just another refurb...

[Jake Holman]

Has anyone gotten a M39 from SOG? Really want a M39!

No but I've scored a few here. http://www.gunsnammo.com/
He moves a lot of M39's and you know what you are getting.
Some rare M39's can be had here too. Always something new to boot.
You can't go wrong with an M39. It's often referred to as the
Poor Man's Garand.

[HOOKED ON HISTORY]

Hello, Engine; I'm Jake Holman.
One of the finest movies of all time! Ending stank however.

[Jake Holman]

One of the finest movies of all time! Ending stank however.
True.
It wasn't the first or last time McQueen would die on film.
The Duke did his share too. You don't see that anymore in film these days.
I was really surprised he didn't bet bumped off in the Great Escape.

[HOOKED ON HISTORY]

I was really surprised he didn't bet bumped off in the Great Escape.
Much better ending though sad too. You have excellent taste in films. Bullitt was pretty fair as well.

[Vincent]

The one I have is dated 1942.

[roy45]

Does your rifle have any of the Spanish Civil War features? Like the "USSR" marking on the rear sight base?


Check out this thread on Gunboards...
SCW find. (http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?273007-SCW-find)

Your rifle looks very similar to the SCW rifle that this guy found. Even has the same type of bedding. Very unusual - and cool! :)

I hope you don't mind that I posted some of your photos in the thread above for comparison of the bedding.



Manufacture date of 1939 is too late for SCW as arms shipments from USSR ended before 1939. The [SA] marking is a positive indication of Finnish use.

[barbarossa]

Stock is defintely a Soviet made stock. It is not Finnish. Likely a Continuation War 1941-1944 capture 91/30 donated its stock to this action. In fact, it is very likely a 1941 production stock the Finns have retro'd onto this particular action. Reason? It still has the early screwed escutcheon but has the notches behind the lower band to ease removal. This feature begins to show up on late 1941 production Soviet made rifles and carbines.

As far as the thinned buttstock is concerned, I'd be willing to wager it was thinned by the Finns at the time of issue so the Finn horseshoe swivels could be attached--a lot of Soviet rifle stocks are both too thick and too deep for these swivels to fit properly and so the natural solution would be to thin the lower portion of the stock so they'll slip into place.

My two cent's worth....