Earliest C1 bayonets? [Archive] - Military Surplus Collectors Forums

View Full Version : Earliest C1 bayonets?

Lee Enfield

12-04-2006, 03:08 PM

Cantom

12-04-2006, 10:51 PM

What's the earliest C1 bayonet you own/have seen?

I would like to find a 1956 dated C1 bayonet, but the earliest I've seen is dated '58... Is there any hope?

Has anyone owned/seen a tool-room/pre '56 dated C1 bayonet?

Anyone have any other weird & wild bayo's to show off?

Both of my C1 bayos are 1959. One is a chrome parade example.

I have a rare bayonet I'm told...a Canadian Navy bayonet from WW1. Apparently our navy was pretty small and there weren't many of these.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/CNbayo1.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/CNbayo2.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/CNbayo9.jpg

I got the bayonet on ebay and the scabbard from a militaria collector from Alberta.

Dimitri

12-05-2006, 06:36 AM

I have a rare bayonet I'm told...a Canadian Navy bayonet from WW1. Apparently our navy was pretty small and there weren't many of these.

The Canadian Navy probably didn't issue many rifles or bayonets as most of the War supplies like thouse would be going to the Army and thats why there was smaller numbers of them. But by Wars end the Canadian Navy was pretty big. :)

By war's end, the Royal Canadian Navy had grown into one of the world's great navies -- 100,000 men and women and 365 warships. Just six years earlier, it had been tiny, with only 3500 permanent and part-time ('reserve') members and six modern destroyers and four minesweepers.

Dimitri

Cantom

12-05-2006, 11:00 AM

The Canadian Navy probably didn't issue many rifles or bayonets as most of the War supplies like thouse would be going to the Army and thats why there was smaller numbers of them. But by Wars end the Canadian Navy was pretty big. :)

Dimitri

Wow-was that WW1 or WW2?

Stevo

12-05-2006, 11:11 AM

IIRC, by the end of WWII, the RCN was the third largest navy in the world, behind the RN and USN.

Then we cut it all up.

Lee Enfield

12-05-2006, 11:36 AM

Both of my C1 bayos are 1959. One is a chrome parade example.

Snip...

There are 2 1958 dated C1 bayos on Ebay right now, but I'd like a first year....

I have a C^ marked M.1907 chromed "parade" bayonet.

It hung over someone's mantle or in their smoke room for so long that it accumulated an awesome golden shade (which unfortunately wipes off ;) )

Cantom

12-05-2006, 12:14 PM

IIRC, by the end of WWII, the RCN was the third largest navy in the world, behind the RN and USN.

Then we cut it all up.

I agree. This is a WWI bayonet though...wouldn't they have used No 4 rifles with pigstickers in WWII?
I was told this is a rare bayonet.

Cantom

12-05-2006, 12:20 PM

There are 2 1958 dated C1 bayos on Ebay right now, but I'd like a first year....

I have a C^ marked M.1907 chromed "parade" bayonet.

It hung over someone's mantle or in their smoke room for so long that it accumulated an awesome golden shade (which unfortunately wipes off ;) )

I have a perfect chrome parade 1907 bayo too(not C/|\ though), it looks awesome on my chrome parade rifle...C/|\ marked. Would you part with yours or swap?

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/DSC09664.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/DSC09663.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/ParadeSMLEBayonet.jpg

green

12-05-2006, 01:10 PM

Most P1907 parade bts I have seen are nickel plated. 1RCR issued one to their duty segeant at Wolsey Barracks until the late 60s.

Claven2

12-05-2006, 02:35 PM

I agree. This is a WWI bayonet though...wouldn't they have used No 4 rifles with pigstickers in WWII?
I was told this is a rare bayonet.

The No.4Mk1 with No.2Mk(whatever number of stars) spike bayonet was not beginning to see mass issue until about late 1941 or so. Even then, most units would have retained the SMLE for some time to come.

The Australian forces retained the No1MkIII* and P1907 bayonet until 1956. The Indians retained it in reserve status until at least 1987.

Even after the 1944 D-Day landings, it was not an uncommon sight to see some units in theatre still equipped with the WW1 era SMLE. Lots of photographic evidence supports this.

One of my friends' father often told him a war tale about how he preferred the tangent sights on the SMLE as it was what he had been taught musketry with. Everytime he returned to depot they would take away his SMLE and give him a brand new No.4 which he would then replace with an SMLE battlefield pickup ASAP. Aparently he went through this proceddeure 3 or 4 times while in Europe.

In essence, the SMLe and No.4 rifle are basically the same weapon mechanically and payload-wise. The No.4 was adopted more out of mass production concerns and its easier and cheaper manufacture more than any major gains in performance.

I also think it's safe to say sizeable numbers of No.1MkIII* rifles and P1907 bayonets crossed the rhine in March of 1945, despite the fact that by then the No.4 would have outnumbered the older SMLE by this time.

stencollector

12-05-2006, 02:56 PM

My FN C1 Bayonet is 1957 dated. As an aside, it is sharp enough to cut snow if need be.

Dimitri

12-05-2006, 06:30 PM

Wow-was that WW1 or WW2?

Damn my bad! Should have read that artical I copied that from better. :o Apprently it was for WW2. :( Sorry my mistake. I should have woke up alittle more before posting in the morning. :banghead:

I did find this about the Canadian Navy in WW1:

On the other hand, by the middle of 1918, the effects of the British blockade were such that Germany could no longer carry on the war. When the war began in 1914 Canada had an embryonic naval service consisting of less than 350 men and two ships, HMCS Rainbow and HMCS Niobe. It was decided that Canada's war effort would be best concentrated on the army and, therefore, the protection of Canada's coasts and shipping in Canadian waters was handed over to the Royal Navy.

The share of the Royal Canadian Navy in defence though small was, nevertheless, important. The R.C.N. assumed responsibility for such services as examining and directing shipping in Canadian ports; radio-telegraph services, vital to the Admiralty's intelligence system; operation of an auxiliary fleet which engaged in minesweeping and patrolling operations. In 1916, when the threat of submarine warfare spread to North American waters, the Canadian government undertook, at the request of the British Admiralty, to build up a patrol force of thirty-six ships.

In addition Canadians made up a substantial part of the ships' companies of Canada's cruisers and the two submarines which had been acquired by the British Columbia government. At the end of the war the R.C.N. numbered more than one hundred war vessels and about 5,500 officers and men - the nucleus of a future, effective naval force.

http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:Z5tPCc98x-QJ:www.militarybadges.info/canada/pages/07-at-sea.htm+Canadian+Navy+WW1&hl=en&gl=ca&ct=clnk&cd=4&client=firefox-a

So apparently the Navy was pretty small in WW1. :)

Dimitri

Lee Enfield

12-05-2006, 06:58 PM

Most P1907 parade bts I have seen are nickel plated. 1RCR issued one to their duty segeant at Wolsey Barracks until the late 60s.

Actually it really doesn't look chromed, so it's probably nickel. But through the gold coating it's hard to be sure.

Lee Enfield

12-05-2006, 07:00 PM

My FN C1 Bayonet is 1957 dated. As an aside, it is sharp enough to cut snow if need be.

0L0000 is dated 1956 in the "big ugly book" ala Stevens

By cutting snow I assume it hasn't been sharpened?

I'll take pics of my Be-autiful EX bayo which has been cleverly reshaped :madsmile:

stencollector

12-05-2006, 10:37 PM

0L0000 is dated 1956 in the "big ugly book" ala Stevens

By cutting snow I assume it hasn't been sharpened?

Thats right.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/stencollector/c1bayo.jpg

Back in those days, the bayonets were as dull as the C1 pocket knife they gave us. We used to get sharper knives in the KFS.
Around 99 they issued us the Gerber multitools. Our MIR was inundated with injuries as the artillery guys would try and catch their multitool knives when they dropped them. :surrender: The C-7 bayonets were reasonably sharp as well, but other than to stab someone, they really had no other functional purpose. That is now being resolved with the issue of the fighting knife.

36 hamon

12-06-2006, 03:28 PM

Lee Enfield

12-07-2006, 03:18 PM

I had a 1956 bayonet and a very nice ex DCRA 1956 C1 which never was upgraded I bought from a very old DCRA shooter who got it right from CAL BTW i had the reciept as well ... all gone now oh well it resides in Sault St.Marie in a good home .it still had the little wood handle and the 1 piece firing pin and the forestocks had the cooling vents I do regret letting this one go just a bit it was a 0Lxxxx

36 Hamon:help: :

Was your '56 C1 blued? The one I saw appeared (through the protective coat of grease) to be blued.

There's an interesting discussion going on at Jouster/enfield forum about LB finishes & when the changeover to parkerizing happened.

36 hamon

12-07-2006, 08:51 PM

no it was parked .as for LB's I had a 1949 that was blued and my 50 is parked I also have a couple wartime dates that were FTR'd at CAL and were parked .that maybe where some confusion comes in Canada didn't stamp FTR on there referbs it's just known that a 1944 that is parked is a refurb

Cantom

12-10-2006, 01:33 PM

I saw a 1958 C1 bayonet today at the show...it was a bit pricey at $65.

Cantom

12-10-2006, 01:36 PM

I scored a C/|\ marked 1907 parade bayonet today at the show. I have a guy who will probably buy my non C/|\ one from me for the same amount I paid...this will go perfectly with the chrome parade rifle...prices are high at Ancaster...

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/Picture021.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/Picture027.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/Picture029.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/Picture030.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/Picture031.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/Picture032.jpg

Oatmeal Savage

12-12-2006, 12:09 AM

My bayo is 1958

Lee Enfield

12-12-2006, 10:34 AM

Cantom

12-12-2006, 11:32 AM

I'm glad you found one...

Thanks, so was I! I thought of yours immediately plus remembered you weren't letting go of it...the problem I had was my wife was with me watching me like a hawk...:ugh:

stencollector

12-12-2006, 02:50 PM

Thanks, so was I! I thought of yours immediately plus remembered you weren't letting go of it...the problem I had was my wife was with me watching me like a hawk...:ugh:
While bringing a wife or partner to a gunshow can be a good gesture, it can also severely limit those "gotta have it no matter what the price is" impulse buys.

What were you thinking man?

Cantom

12-12-2006, 03:24 PM

While bringing a wife or partner to a gunshow can be a good gesture, it can also severely limit those "gotta have it no matter what the price is" impulse buys.

What were you thinking man?

I hear you :red face: ...but I have this standing thing with my wife that she's welcome to come with me whereever I go...I also have gotten her to look for stuff for me at another show and she was a useful scout in that early morning rush for bargoons...but not this time, it was so full you could barely move and as usual everyone was looking for the same stuff.

Believe it or not, I actually got the sense that she enjoyed this show...which is a big improvement for someone that hates guns.

koldt

12-18-2006, 09:52 PM

Unissued 1958 for the 1968 C1A1. Have a 1960 dated bayonet for the 1960 dated little C1.

Can anyone give me a tutorial how to post the pics that show small, but get bigger if you click on them?

Here's the bayo.
http://www3.telus.net/hansonk/1958bayo.jpg

On this Canadian stuff wall.
http://www3.telus.net/hansonk/1958bayo1.jpg

Stevo

12-19-2006, 12:11 AM

koldt,
See part 2 of this:(click here) (http://milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=242) Pics can be directly uploaded to Milsurps, unlike CGN. Member are limited to 5 attachments per post, and 2 MB total uploads.

wheaty

12-21-2006, 05:59 PM

Yes, 1956 and 57 C1 bayonets do exist.
The one with the tag is a "sealed pattern"
56 and 57 pic's attached
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/62956/P1020197.jpg?t=1166742445
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/62956/P1020194.jpg?t=1166742571
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/62956/P1020201.jpg?t=1166742620

wheaty

12-21-2006, 06:46 PM

A 56 and 57 dated bayonet. The one with the tag is a sealed pattern. Sorry for posting this twice, as I do not think the first one went as planned.
Cheers,

Lee Enfield

12-22-2006, 10:36 AM

wheaty

12-23-2006, 10:40 AM

Ah but is a sealed pattern for the frog, bayonet, or scabbord? :move eek:

Is the sealed pattern dated?

Eat your heart out DCV !!!http://www.milsurps.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif
http://www.milsurps.com/images/smilies/tongue.gif

koldt

12-24-2006, 07:18 AM

And what was the latest date for a C1 bayonet seen?

Lee Enfield

02-05-2007, 05:56 PM

And what was the latest date for a C1 bayonet seen?

Anything later than 1965?

Jean

02-05-2007, 06:07 PM

I have seen a couple of 66 dated ones lately at gunshows, but no later ones. So for now earliest one is 1956 and latest one is 1966.

Lee Enfield

12-23-2007, 08:23 PM

yaah!

I now have a 1956 C1 bayo!!

Badger

12-24-2007, 06:30 AM

yaah!

I now have a 1956 C1 bayo!!

Need pics ... :cheers:

Regards,
Badger

captk72y

10-18-2008, 05:05 PM

I have 2 C1 bayonets, 1958 and a chromed 1963 one is in a 51 pattern frog the other in and 82 pattern frog. So nothing unusual.

At age 16 many moons ago I bought a 1907 Pattern bayonet Wilikinson made and Cdn proofed. (C with broad arrow) It cost $1.95! it is gone and I have no idea what happened to it.

old-smithy

03-14-2009, 08:33 AM

http://www.old-smithy.info/bayonets/slr/CDN-C1-1957paradebladecrossmarking.jpg

Earliest one I have seen 1957, unfortunatley not mine

stencollector

03-14-2009, 12:03 PM

http://www.old-smithy.info/bayonets/slr/CDN-C1-1957paradebladecrossmarking.jpg

Earliest one I have seen 1957, unfortunatley not mine

For general interest, the numbers shown on your bayonet "150 3900" is a portion of the NATO stock number for this item. If you add the stock class 1005 (small arms and parts) and the old Cdn country identifier code (21) you will get 1005-21-150-3900, which is the number you would order to get a bayonet.

Some useless trivia for those who care about such things.

old-smithy

03-14-2009, 12:46 PM

nice bit of info, i had assumed it was a stock number confirmation always helps

nzl1a1collector

05-29-2009, 08:51 AM

http://www.old-smithy.info/bayonets/slr/CDN-C1-1957paradebladecrossmarking.jpg

Earliest one I have seen 1957, unfortunatley not mine

That's mineeeeeeeeeeeee :dancingbanana:

Here you go a 1956 dated C1 bayonet :super:
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p236/nzl1a1collector/C1bayonet-56-1.jpg

1956, 1957 and 1959 dated bayonets
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p236/nzl1a1collector/C1bayonet-56-57-59.jpg

old-smithy

05-29-2009, 06:45 PM

Congrats on adding another one

nzl1a1collector

05-29-2009, 07:32 PM

Congrats on adding another one

:dancingbanana: I was wrapped to get this bayonet even though the blade is a little rough. Note the very different type of fuller used on these first bayonets.

The latest bayonet I have seen is dated 1966.

Albayo

06-03-2009, 08:43 AM

The C1 bayonet with the wide fuller must have been manufactured for a very short time as the two fuller types can be found with the same year. Any chance Canada bought some British blades to fill a gap in production?
I have about 15+ C1 bayonets in my collection, I think the 1966 models don't have the markings on the cross guard.