1903 Springfield "BushMaster"

[DANCESWITHEMPTIES]

During 1942 the 158th Infantry of the Oklahoma National Guard were stationed in the Canal Zone of Panama with this carbine style of 03. The mods were done by the ordnance shops in Panama, & did not have Parkerizing capability, so all the barrels were blued after being cut down to 18 inches. (Reference was from 'The Springfield 1903 Rifles' by Lt. Col. William S Brophy)
Does anyone know how many of these rifles were produced? Other than the obvious barrel and forward stock modifications, were there any other alterations done to this rifle. The book entitled 'Springfield Armory/Shoulder Weapons 1795-1968' by Robert Ball have some great pics of this rifle as well, but not much info. Any info would be appreciated. Here's a pic of a copy I found on the net:

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2009/02/1903bushmaster-1.jpg

[Jim K]

Brophy is the source of most of the info out there, but he doesn't say how many were altered. We can't even determine a figure from the strength of the regiment, since there seem to be no evidence of what percentage of its troops were issued the shortened rifle.

Supposedly, they were all called in and converted back to standard rifles. Since the military generally did not miss many on a recall like that, and since a counterfeit would be easy to make, any "Bushmaster" for sale at a premium price should have solid documentation of its provenance.

FWIW, some folks feel that issue of those rifles means that there was a carbine version of the Model 1903, as there was with the trapdoor and Krag. But others (including the present poster) feel those were locally made and in no way a formally adopted "Model 1903 carbine."

Jim

[chuckindenver]

said rifle was used in Combat, and givin its own model, you can find serveral combat pictures of this rifle, one is in the National rifleman in 1943 shows a troop aiming it in the brush.
stock used on the ones iv seen pictures of were grasping grooves, and the rifles had not sight covers. with a taller front sight.
there is a nother 1903 carbine. that never made production, i have a few pictures someplace, the sling swivle is set in the side of the stock, and the front swivle is also modified for the side, 18" barrel, with special sights.
the one o saw a picture of, had a brass plack on the side discribing it as 1903C carbine. experimantal trials rifle. or something to the effect, the RIA museum has a version of this rifle as well on display.

[DANCESWITHEMPTIES]

I do agree that any of these rifles sold as original had better come with documentation from a creditable source, as so with a lot of the variants of the 03, as their were a lot of copies made & past off as originals. A very healthy dose of skepticism should be used when purchasing any of these types of rifles. I don't believe this rifle could be called a variant of the 03 as well, as it was only modified & issued for the one purpose to the 158th. None the less, it would be nice to have at least a copy of this rifle if the 'spare parts' are found to assembly such a rifle.

[DANCESWITHEMPTIES]

said rifle was used in Combat, and givin its own model, you can find serveral combat pictures of this rifle, one is in the National rifleman in 1943 shows a troop aiming it in the brush.
stock used on the ones iv seen pictures of were grasping grooves, and the rifles had not sight covers. with a taller front sight.
there is a nother 1903 carbine. that never made production, i have a few pictures someplace, the sling swivle is set in the side of the stock, and the front swivle is also modified for the side, 18" barrel, with special sights.
the one o saw a picture of, had a brass plack on the side discribing it as 1903C carbine. experimantal trials rifle. or something to the effect, the RIA museum has a version of this rifle as well on display.

I didn't realize that their was an experimental model as well. Any pics?

[chuckindenver]

i have a pic someplace, might take me a while, search the Cody museum, i think they have it on display,
as far as i know, all the busmaster carbines were destroyed, might be a couple floating around, but without a letter from Restone Ars, id say no.

[Jim K]

There were a few experimental 1903-based rifles made up at Springfield from time to time, and ten times that number that Springfield never saw. Every chopped up, bubbaized, hacksaw job at a gun show is either an experimental (usually a "super secret" one), an "air service rifle", or one of the "rare Bushmasters."

There are several pictures of the "Bushmaster", and Brophy shows three of them. I have never seen any credible evidence that they were used in combat, though some realistic "combat" pictures were taken during exercises in Panama. There are reports of one being used in Europe, but the evidence is slender.

Jim

[chuckindenver]

hmmm, when shooting at and being shot back at, isnt that combat?? no matter the length..
i know they called some a police action, or security force op, but combat is combat.
ask the guys that were in the mix, ill bet they tell you it was combat. just my take on it.
i agree, alot of POS rifles sold on the net, gunshows , auctions being sold as a secret one off model, trying to fetch big bucks..i just chuckle and walk away.
every now and then, a real peice of history comes out of the woodwork.
thats how i found the 1922 SA in 22 Hornet, no story with the gun, just a price.
he had 2 Hornets, and a few other rare bits of history, if i was rich, they would be in my collection.

[A square 10]

id love to see more on these , id heard but dismissed the story as being a rareity id never see like the pederson device , do post anything you can find , this is an interesting discussion ,



as an aside wonder if this might show up with a 'gunshow' story after im dead ?
http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2009/03/mikestackle070-1.jpg
http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2009/03/mikestackle071-1.jpg
http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2009/03/mikestackle067-1.jpg

just so the ruemer doesnt start here - its not some experimental springfield , i converted an M1903A3-4gery to 22cal , it had issues , now its shootable , thanks to roy boones great machining of the insert , and an M22 bolt

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2009/03/mikesrifles059-1.jpg
http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2009/03/22sleeve-1.jpg
http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2009/03/hardenedinsert-1.jpg
http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2009/03/hardenedsleeve-1.jpg

[chuckindenver]

awesome 22. im jealous..

[DANCESWITHEMPTIES]

awesome 22. im jealous..

X2...Kinda makes my little Ruger and Anschutz look boring...:cheers:

[DANCESWITHEMPTIES]

said rifle was used in Combat, and givin its own model, you can find serveral combat pictures of this rifle, one is in the National rifleman in 1943 shows a troop aiming it in the brush.
stock used on the ones iv seen pictures of were grasping grooves, and the rifles had not sight covers. with a taller front sight.
there is a nother 1903 carbine. that never made production, i have a few pictures someplace, the sling swivle is set in the side of the stock, and the front swivle is also modified for the side, 18" barrel, with special sights.
the one o saw a picture of, had a brass plack on the side discribing it as 1903C carbine. experimantal trials rifle. or something to the effect, the RIA museum has a version of this rifle as well on display.

You know, it didn't even click in the first time I read your post. Of course the front sight would have to be higher to properly regulate the rear sight elevation. I guess it pays to re read posts.

[sdh1911]

The actual Bushmaster had a longer stock on the bottom than the top and were built mostly on finger grooved stocks. I had talked to Bill B. about them in Connecticut in the 1980's he expressed the only true detector of that rifle would be discharge papers including the serial number. There are supposed to be examples? in Ft. Benning, Quantico and a very few other military installations whos names escapes me at this time, it was quite sometime ago. Not all of Bills Information in that book is written in stone, there are a few blatant mistakes in it, but, its still the best scribe on that topic.SDH

[DANCESWITHEMPTIES]

Going from Brophy's book, I know the original experimental carbine, from 1900 to 1902, had a longer stock (pg.83). But on the opposite page there are some photos with troops with the Bushmaster and the upper & lower stock appear flush to one another. I have misplaced by book by Canfield, so the only other reference I have right now is the Springfield Armory book by Robert Ball. The original carbine had a 20 inch barrel with no bayonet lug and a Lyman No. 48 rear sight modified to read yards instead of minutes. The sling swivels were also attached to the left side of the stock. The forward swivel being attached to the side of the band. The rear swivel appears to be the normal type.

[Danthe19Delta]

This is very interesting. I served in the 158th Infantry in 1958-60 when I transferred to the Regular Army and went to the 6th Infantry, Berlin Brigade.
In those days the 158th was part of the Arizona National Guard (as it was in 1940) They and the Okla Guard were activated together and sent to Panama, Then a number were sent to the Philippines and were part of Mac's force at Corregidor.

[DANCESWITHEMPTIES]

Just as a matter of interest, could you shed any numbers deployed to Panama? Or any good reference sites? Went to National Guard Site, found the history of the 158th. Unfortunately it was just a brief over view of the entire history of the 158, but nothing too detailed.

[sdh1911]

Excellent rifle!-SDH

[Jim K]

Well, there was no "shooting and being shot at" in Panama during WWII. Pics of the "Bushmaster in action" were PR photos taken during exercises.

Jim

[Danthe19Delta]

Yes, I can dig up a pretty detailed history of the 158th Inf. In fact they just got back from Iraq recently. (armed with different weapons though:thup:

[thelittlegreenguy]

Hi and sorry to dig up an old thread, just joined and was cruising thru the posts checking on some that pertain to weapons I have or want, when I saw this one.. I have a rifle that resembles the ones being discussed here.. never knew what it was just thought it was cool looking gun...

I have/had a nice 1903a1 rifle that I purchased when I was young ( 18 ) it was ok just a shooter.. nice stock and real clean but the reciver had a lot of pitting on it but it was refinished nicely.. I ended up selling it to a fiends wife, she knew he admired it and she wanted to get it for him for his B-day.. he was retiring from his job as a baliff so I gave in and sold it to her for a resonable price.. about $300.00 but this was back in 1999.. I had bought the gun for about $189.00 back when I was a kid.. figured it was fair.. but I had also picked up a 1903a3.. it's top stock is black plastic not wood, and the wood lower stock is glossy ( I figured someone finished it that way its not military ) it had a fixed rear peep sight on it, but it came with the correct rear militayr peep so I put that one back on.. it has a fromt sight shroud as well.. the front band doesnt have a boyonet lug.. I dont know if it was removed or if this is an aftermarcket front band.. I plan on getting a more correct one.. i dont hold any illusions that this gun has any great value beyond being a nice shooting .30-06..

now my last 1903 looks a lot like the picutres in the first post.. it has a "c" stock ( pistol grip type ) it has a shorter barell somewhere between 16-18" and the stock has been cut back and looks nice.. I will have to go get it out of the safe and look for a barell date ( if it has one ) I do remember the reciever is a Rock Island marked if that makes any difference I will get it out this weekend and take some pictures of it I will post them along with more information..

I wasnt really sure what it was or is.. have had it forever.. I never really shoot it much with the short barell and .30-06 cartridge it tends to clear brush in front of the muzzle when shot..and its LOUD.. otherwixe its interesting...

[Rick the Librarian]

This is very interesting. I served in the 158th Infantry in 1958-60 when I transferred to the Regular Army and went to the 6th Infantry, Berlin Brigade.
In those days the 158th was part of the Arizona National Guard (as it was in 1940) They and the Okla Guard were activated together and sent to Panama, Then a number were sent to the Philippines and were part of Mac's force at Corregidor.

The 158th was originally part of the 40th Division, a National Guard unit made up of men from the Southwest, mostly California, Nevada, Utah, etc. The 158th was "peeled off" when the "square" 40th (four infantry regiments) was cut back to a "triangular" shape (three regiments) in 1940.

I was trying to figure out the connection to Corregidor. There was a National Guard unit that was sent to the Philippines in 1941 - the 200th Coast Artillery Regiment (AA). It was made up of troops from (mainly) New Mexico.

[Calif-Steve]

Rick: At Camp Perry they have many newpapers articles about the local National Guard unit. It was sent to the Phillipines and all got captured. They had a really tough time in Japanese POW camps.

[Rick the Librarian]

What unit was it - part of the 192nd Tank Battalion? It was made up of small NG units, mostly from the Midwest.

The 161st Infantry Regiment, another "orphan" NG regiment, based in my home tow of Spokane WA, was on the docks of San Francisco, waiting to be shipped out to the Philippines when war broke out. Ironically, it did make the Philippines in late 1944 ... as part of the 25th Infantry Division.

[karl schmidt]

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[Mike D]

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Thanks for the photo!


I posted this photo of my clone a while back. On another forum a guy responded that his father was in Panama and used one, but his had a C-stock. Man was/is in his 90's but was very positive his "shortened rifle" had a "pistol-gripped stock". He showed his Dad my photo, and he said, "Yeah, just like that one, but with a pistol-grip stock." I thought that was neat.

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2012/05/Bushmaster007-1.jpg

[Calif-Steve]

The troops at Camp Perry were local Ohio guys. They had those small, post-WWI tanks. All ended up in POW camps.

[karl schmidt]

Heer's a full size cut of my bushmaster photo from the signal corp. Files. Can't really tell is its a P.G. or straight grip stock. I remember seeing some Ord. Dept. Photos of the gun in the archives - next trip to D.C. I'll try to find them. I think they just cut down whatever un assigned rifles they had laying around - it was the barrel length they were after.

http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy270/karls42/archives61011005a.jpg

[Promo]

As it has a finger groove, I'd believe it's a straight grip stock. Wouldn't think they would've used a M1922M2 stock and then make a cutout for the rear sight base.

[Mike D]

The Bushmaster in Brophy's book looks to have a C-stock, too. Notice the mans grip. In Canfields book the same photo is larger and much clearer. No finger grooves.

I think I'll look for a chopped C-stock for my carbine. :D

[ismith]

There was also an experimental 1903 carbine chambered in .45 ACP. Its in Hatcher's notebook as well as Brophy's book.