My recent trip through the States

[Ken The Kanuck]

The wife and I just got back from a 3000 mile road trip through some of the western states.

I was interested in the " Obama Depression " (my term) that is such big news lately. Now being a Canadian I can look at what is going on at home and I have felt that this downturn in the economy up here has been created by the media. I don't see any real reason for a depression. Of course we will enter a true depression if we continue with the negativity. Especially with our largest trading partner ( the U.S.) seemingly bent on economic suicide.

So I was very interested in observing life as we passed through the various areas on our trip.

What I did notice:

1) A lot of empty stores in malls
2) A lot of new cars on the road
3) A lot of high end cars on the road.
4) A lot of people eatting out, especially in fast food resturants.
5) A lot of people in casinos.
6) People in general are well dressed.
7) Some states ( parts atleast ) have not kept care of the roads and they are in bad shape ( particularly the road into Reno, I-80 ) really terrible.
8) A lot of trucking companies advertising for drivers.
9) Some of the people serving us really didn't seem too interested in thier jobs.
10) Everyone seems to have a cell phone and use it alot.
11) The stores I went into were busy.
12) Lots of Mexican people.
13) A fair amount of construction going on.
14) Hotels bargain like a Mexican bazaar merchant trying to make a sale.
15) Lots of fat people.



Now remembering my mother's stories from the depression and what life was like in a true depression I have to say that I think we are not ( nor our American cousins ) in a true depression.

I tend to think that what we have is a manufactured problem which then creates a reason for the politicians to take money from those who work and give it to those who don't.

So don't give up hope, we are not going to hell in a handbasket, just being screwed around again.

Had a great trip like normal, the American people were most gracious, those in the L.A. area seemed to be a little different from the norm.

Americans are great neighbours and friends.

KTK

[Bat Guano]

If this works it will be the first time I have been able to post on CSP in what--six months? Which may or may not be considered a good thing in some circles...

But, FWIW--it's interesting to have someone from the "outside" look at us. Personally I think we have 40 years worth of chickens up in the pattern looking for places to roost now. Some of it might just be the wakeup call we need to get back to fundamentals. :bitch:

(Some wierd smilies over there!)

[Major Tom]

Having just returned from a trip to CA and Texas, I saw no symtoms of economic woe. As Kanuck said, everyplace is bustling and the freeways/interstates are full of people traveling. I do not personally know anyone having difficulties. May be this whole economy thing is just a rouse for Buck Wheat to get money to his homies.

[critter44]

I have no illusions that the economy is 'wonderful' as I see the same things you guys do as to folks still spending money. However, I also am with you guys in that I do not think it is as bad as the mainstream media make us think. In fact, I think much of it is 'panic' and that panic is CAUSED by the constant pounding by the media on the dark side of things.

News media is COMPLETELY out of control. There are so many gullible 'sheeple' who believe that if it comes out of the 'magic box' it is just as factual as if it were written on the stone tablets by God and brought down from the mountain by Moses. Witness the media fawning over and leading the charge to elect our current 'fearless leader'.

The mass media, however, is NOT interested in presenting news. They are interested ONLY in ratings and the ability to sell high priced ads. They are simply 'entertainment'-the exact same type on 'entertainment' as the so-called reality TV shows.

God bless the USA!

[0311Shooter]

Gawd all the posts in this thread are written by some bright people. You guys have it right on.

It's funny, in my area the talk and newspapers are "Oh God, what are we going to do?". But everywhere I look, as Ken the K relates, there's a new CVS pharmacy or a new motel or a new hoard of apartments going up. And yes, everywhere you go someone has a phone growing out of their ear. How on earth did we ever make it 10 years back when one had to go to Wallmart without calling someone?!?!?!?!

Just this morning I heard something else that brought me back a few years. Recall that it was just after the dems won the house and senate in Nov. 2006 that Ted Kennedy shoved through the raise in the minimum wage. Those raises have recently taken affect.

Then you toss in the gas price surge of last year and the mortgage fiasco, all the while the demo congress spent all their time trying to impeach Bush and lose in Iraq.

Makes for an interesting scenario.

[PhillipM]

15) Lots of fat people.



Now remembering my mother's stories from the depression and what life was like in a true depression I have to say that I think we are not ( nor our American cousins ) in a true depression.

KTK

My mother and I watched a story on the history channel about the construction of the TVA dams during the '30's. It showed thousands lined up trying to get hired. She quipped, "Not one overweight person there. I never saw a fat person when I was a child." She was born in 1934.

[Devil Dog]

I think it depends on where you live as to what kind of shape this country is in. In Michigan things are very tough. The published unemployment rate is 12% but that only includes those who are collecting benefits. Those whose benefits have exrired are not in the 12%. Many commercial buildings and factorys are closed. Foreclosers are everywhere. It is next to impossible to sell a house. The press is not causing the problem in Michigan.

[Ken The Kanuck]

I was talking to a friend of mine who just got back from the Daytona 500 and he also had the impression I did.

Please do not think that I am belittling anyone's economic woes as I am certainly am not as I say I was raised by people who were kids in the Great Depression.

But I believe that we should not be so negative as I do not believe that it helps. But at the same time we must be realists, hence my impressions.

KTK

[Rick Gushman]

Devil Dog has it right. There are some areas of the country that have been little affected by the current economic problems (yet) but other areas have been hit very hard. Areas that depend on heavy manufacturing are the hardest hit. When automobile sales are off by 30 to 40% and even Toyota is loosing money there is a problem. If things don't turn around, the trouble will spread. Despite the high price, I don't see much that is in the so-called stimulus package that will do much to turn things around very quickly. It is more of a spending package than a stimulus package. But what did we expect from some one who thinks that properity comes from the government? For an ecomony to prosper, there must be a willingness by investors to supply capital to industry and loans to consumers and a willingness by consumers to purchase the commodities that keep the economy moving. Things in that regard aren't happening as it should. I do hope this ends soon because if it doesn't folks who are now wondering what it's all about will get a firsthand economics lesson. Rick

[0311Shooter]

We are going to be in this for a long time. Here is what transpired.

Prior to the 2006 mid term elections, we saw the left wing media slam Bush over and over, I can recall them saying "this is the worst economy since the Great Depression". Plus they lambasted republicans like Foley and Cunningham, sex maniacs and crooked politicians. Yeah, the unemployment was only up to about 5%, from a low of about 4.1%. Left wing media said "democrats WILL take over the house and possibly the senate". Many bought it, that's how the election turned out.

Soon as democrats were in, they immediately set out to lose the Iraq War. They quickly passed the new Minimum Wage law. They set out to get jailed Karl Rove, Gonzo, Cheney, and any one they could from the Bush administration. They got Gonzo and Scooter Libby for ...????

In the meantime, to get a democrat elected in 2008, the economy had to tank. When gas started shooting up to $5 a gallon, the democrats went home. About this time the mortgage cra-pola started gearing up, or down. The average worker couldn't buy gas, buy food, and pay his mortgage either.

Democrats got their wishes, the economy tanked, a socialist won the election, and this community organizer is calling the shots.

IF we can survive the next 3.5 years .......

[Rick Gushman]

0311Shooter, I, too, think that this situation will last longer than most currently believe. Many economists have said that it will take 6 to 12 months for a turnaround to take place. I am not nearly that optimistic. What really made the Great Depression great was that until the very later 30's, there was very little capital available to grow business and improve the employment situation. Basically, until businesses can prosper, there will be no substantial turnaround. One only needs to look at the steadily increasing unemployment figures to understand that business isn't doing well. Many companies are attempting to make themselves "viable for the future" by laying off workers. That's prudent but it is a sign that things are continually going in the wrong direction. As a rule, most democrats are not pro business. They have a history of making it difficult to do business in the US. Between excessive regulations and high taxes on corporate profits they make a tough environment for business to grow. Business is the engine that drives the economy - not government spending. I really hope that the situation changes for the better but the actions of the government to date haven't been very effective. The best I can say is that the action taken by the Bush administration kept the financial market solvent but it didn't reverse the situtation. For all his hype, Obama has done nothing to date of that has made one bit of difference, yet. Also let's not forget what party promoted "the dream of home ownership for everyone" - including folks who couldn't afford one. They are also the ones who voted down in committee oversight of Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac. There certainly was some greed in the financial institutions that helped this crisis along but I personally feel that it got momentum with poor government sponsored programs pushed by liberals. Rick

[0311Shooter]

Good analysis, Rick G. Can't add much. There is one thing that disturbs me about what is going on today.

Most of the polls taken that analyze Obamma show the illiterate masses are STILL buying his stuff. He, and the left wing media, are now adding in every speech and newscast that "Obamma INHERITED this mess". Can we say Bush bashing? Of course MSDNC's whole nightly shows are Bush from start to finish. He is off fishing and they are STILL trying to impeach him.

What I am saying is the left wing media are still protecting obamma. They say his Spending Stimulus is only failing because Republicans are opposing it. And the polls, weighted and doctored, are protecting obamma and blaming Bush.

I am amazed that so many are so stupid that they can't see that ALL our troubles took off in 2007, just after democrats took over the legislatures. With no one to truly oppose them now, it's Katy Bar the Door.

I can see it, you can see it, but the illiterate masses .....?????

And the left wing media just LOVES it.

[Rick Gushman]

0311Shooter, I, too, am disgusted by the media. As you noted, they are giving Obama a pass but Bush who is no longer in office and who had to contend with a democratic dominated Congress for two years is to blame in their eyes. If one looks at the facts, liberal policies regarding home loans are the root of most of our current economic problems. Some lending institutions were partly to blame but governmental policies which were the product of democrats got the whole thing fueled in the first place. Apparently, no one thought that it wasn't a good idea to lend money to folks who weren't capable of paying back the loan (espeically if the boom economy sputtered) and to make matters worse the loans were for the purchase of homes which were overinflated to begin with. Home values had been increasing at a rate over twice what the normal inflation rate was. If that goes on for a number of years (as it did), when a realignment in home values finally takes place (due to a natural down turn in the economy), there are a lot of folks who have a home that is worth much less than they owe on it. Now if they default on the loan, the bank doesn't stand a chance of recouping their investment. This is simply social engineering gone wrong and we all know who is in love with social engineering. Rick

[John Sukey]

The only way the media will finaly see the light is IF some of those "talking heads" in the media get "laid off"
I would love to see Stefanopolous get a layoff notice. Maybe the messiah can hire him as his "minister of propaganda" since Josef Goebbels is not available!

[RoninPhoenix]

Ken , I can't figure out how to reduce the size now. You mean you went down to tucson withthat dog of yours and didn't say hello in phoenix?

[RoninPhoenix]

I got to tell you I see a lot of signs here, forclosed houses, malls, etc. I was in lake havasu yesterday talking to a guy. Last year he had 22 electricians working for him, this year him and one other guy.
If you figure that a toaster oven from G.E. costs more than a share of their stock, its bad

[Ken The Kanuck]

Ken , I can't figure out how to reduce the size now. You mean you went down to tucson withthat dog of yours and didn't say hello in phoenix?

Sorry Ron we didn't get too close to Phoenix, it would be a real pleasure to meet you and I'm sure Sasha would be all over you.

Ken

[Dan In Indiana]

I got to tell you I see a lot of signs here, forclosed houses, malls, etc. I was in lake havasu yesterday talking to a guy. Last year he had 22 electricians working for him, this year him and one other guy.
If you figure that a toaster oven from G.E. costs more than a share of their stock, its bad

In Northern Indiana, over a quarter of a million acres have been leased for putting up wind turbines, a new facility at Muncie is being built to make the turbines, a new rail spur is being drawn out to haul the monsters out, GE dropped their quarterly dividend from 31 cents to 10 cents, resulting in a 9 billion dollars savings which GE is using to buy back their stock before it starts going back up. GE is one of the world's biggest producer of wind turbines, stock is at 7 bucks now, got in a hurry last fall, bought at 32, thinking of getting some more while it is low. If the CEO is buying into it, why should I not follow. After all, the Messiah told me to.

OFC

[Rick Gushman]

Dan, That is certainly good news but it doesn't overshadow the fact that Elhart, Indiana has the highest unemployment rate in the nation and numerous automotive plants are closing or laying off workers in Indiana. I hope we hear a lot more good news but for right now, with continually increasing unemployment figures, it doesn't look very good. Rick

[2571]

Nothing wrong you say? Come visit us in Michigan.

Everyone here personally knows somebody who has been laid -off or has outright lost their job. Everyone here personally knows somebody who has lost their house to foreclosure. Schools are closing because there's no property tax revenue to pay teacher salaries. Our kids get cold here in the Michigan winters when we can't fuel school furnaces.

I wonder why Rick G didn't mention that GMC stock was at its lowest value in 75 years when trading closed on Friday.

Things are messed up with a capital F here.

Thank you GW, Rush, Michael Steele and your party of 'NO'

[talucah]

Can you tell me why anyone would put a plant in Michigan? Michigan is bankrupt, Detroit is bankrupt, but they refuse to consider reducing spending and keep raising taxes, making the situation worse. Last time we visited my in-laws I remember driving downtown and passing many many reinforced concrete skeletons, that once were active manufacturing plants. What hurts is that the country is following the Michigan model, with I fear the same results.
Bob

[0311Shooter]

Oh boy, the setting changes but old 2571 still spews his wharped posts. Blame the ills of the country on Bush, Mr. Olberman and Mr. Matthews.

How soon we forget???? As I recollect, the economy was doing pretty good, unemployment was under 5%, and gasoline was about $1.75 a gallon back in January 2007. That was just when democrats took over the house and senate, and it went totally, totally, totally downhill from then on.

Hey, my memory is still good. I CAN remember two years back. Really, I can.

http://chrismatthewsleg.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/cheerleader-header.jpg

[2571]

I don't know if there's hope for the rust belt.

There is an infrastructure here which would be useful for manufacturing transportation needs; there is a skilled workforce here familiar with heavy manufacture; and, we're trying to adapt our taxation to accomodate heavy industry.

Nobody's coming here for the weather, that's for sure.
________

There's an anthropological principle that current humor comments on societal status:

Four old retired guys are walking down a street in Sebastian, Florida. They turned a corner and see a sign that says, 'Old Timers Bar - all drinks 10 cents.' They look at each other, and then go in, thinking this is too good to be true.

The old bartender says in a voice that carries across the room, 'Come on in and let me pour one for you! What'll it be, Gentlemen?'

There seemed to be a fully-stocked bar, so each of the men ask for a martini. In short order, the bartender serves up four iced martinis... Shaken, not stirred, and says, 'That'll be 10 cents each, please'

The four men stare at the bartender for a moment.

Then look at each other. They can't believe their good luck. They pay the 40 cents, finish their martinis, and order another round.

Again, four excellent martinis are produced with the bartender again saying, 'That's 40 cents, please.'

They pay the 40 cents, but their curiosity is more than they can stand. They have each had two martinis and so far they've spent less than a dollar.

Finally one of the men says, 'How can you afford to serve martinis as good as these for a dime a piece?'

'I'm a retired tailor from Boston,' the bartender said, and I always wanted to own a bar. Last year I hit the Lottery for $25 million and decided to open this place. Every drink costs a dime - wine, liquor, beer, it's all the same.'

Wow!!!! That's quite a story,' says one of the men.

The four of them sipped at their martinis and couldn't help but notice seven other people at the end of the bar who didn't have drinks in front of them, and hadn't ordered anything the whole time they were there.
One man gestures at the seven at the end of the bar without drinks and asks the bartender,

'What's with them?'

The bartender says, 'Oh, they're all old retired far ts from Michigan. They're waiting for happy hour when drinks are half price

[Rick Gushman]

2571, Let's get the facts straight. This roots of this economic disaster began well before Bush took office. It had to do with liberal polices regarding home mortgage financing which took place during the Clinton administration. Specifically, the federal government put pressure on lending institutions to reduce their conventional requirements for a home loan because these policies were deemed on the basis of statistical analysis to "disadvantage" minorities. I've heard that there are three kinds of liars - "white" liars, damned liars and statisticians. The democrats also rejected in committee proposed legislation to increase the oversight for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac because it was felt that they were not using good judgment regarding high risk loans. I remember Barney Frank specifically stating that such ovesight was not required since the leadership of these entities were doing such a good job. A good job they were doing alright, they were laying the foundation for the near collapse of the lending market nationwide. I'm not saying that the management of some lending institutions weren't also to blame but it is very clear what actions and by whom fueled this disaster. Also regarding heavy industry in the so called "rust belt", for years this area was responsible for creating more wealth than anything seen before or since. I firmly believe that the wealth of a nation is directly proportional to its ability to create goods. However, many liberal politicians began killing the golden goose many years ago. They used such things as environmental restrictions, health and safety requirements, corporate fuel economy standards and high corporate taxes to do the dirlty deed. None of these things are inherently bad but carried to an extreme they have a devastating long term effect on the viability of heavy industry - particularly the automotive industry. To make things all the worse, the government has yet to address the health care issue. Virtually all large manufacturing concerns provide health care for their workers and their families. Their foriegn competition don't have to deal with this added cost since health care is government supplied or underwritten. This puts nearly all American based companies at a distinct financial disadvantage relative to their foreign competitors. There has been a lot of talk about US companies not handling union contracts properly when times began to get tough. It's easy to say that the companies should have reduced wages and particularly benefits when time changed but how can they do that when they will be faced with a crippling strike if they push too hard? It's an easy thing to say but it's a far more difficult thing to accomplish. I've heard too much about mismanagement of US manufacturing companies and while there certainly is some, the real problem is with the US government and most to the problem was the direct result of policies pushed by liberal politicians. Rick

[Former Cav]

I'm retired and my 401K's have LOST about 65% of their values. Meanwhile, Barrack Hussein and CONGRESS (the opposite of PROGRESS!) continue to give away BILLIONS to their buddies.
I don't believe that I will live long enough for my 401's to recover.
I wish you all good luck
Cav

[JohnMOhio]

Mr. Gushman, you have explained it precisely in no uncertain terms. I also blame some of these financial companies that came up with the creative financing they put out there. The initial low payment loans for 5 years for example and then starting in the 6th year or so the payments would increase. They were also selling it on the idea that the home would continue to increase in value and should they not be able to afford the monthly increase in payments, they could then sell the home for a profit or refinance.

The other thing I see is the "loan you deserve" so you can finance that boat, car, a vacation or what ever. This came about after deleting the federal tax deductions on interest you paid on loans for autos, boats and even credit cards. Home equity loans were sold that way. They used to be called 2nd Mortgages not the fancy "home equity loan." I saw it all to often on cars. They get a home equity loan for 15 years to purchase a car that lasts only 10 years at most. Or the boat that is tied up to the dock because they can't put in 50 gallons of gas for the weekend. Meanwhile they have put their home at risk.

Worst part of it is that the Public Bought that sales pitch. Get what you deserve now. Put you equity to work for you. They didn't think moving equity from a somewhat "solid" investment as a home that was increasing in value to an auto or boat that would be decreasing in value. Smart Move.

I guess I have said enough and I am pretty much angry about the whole mess this country has found itself in due to Greed and the I want it now attitude because I deserve it. Hogwash.