fake or missinformed?

[chuckindenver]

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=124097072

they stopped star gauging after 1939; rifle was marked by who knows.

[Doug Douglass]

Fake...fake...fake...playing dumb

[Vi Shooter]

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=124097072

they stopped star gauging after 1939; rifle was marked by who knows.

Chuck,

Maybe I'm being overly generous, but the seller doesn't use the word "gauge" and there IS a "star" on the muzzle that looks parked over:

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif

And it doesn't look like any star gauge mark I ever saw (sometimes nicknamed the "squashed turtle"):

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/deleted.gif

So, while some may believe that this "mixmaster" has a star gauged barrel, anyone with any experience is not going to. And the seller has represented the barrel as having a "star" and not a "star gauge mark."

[RETREAD]

Man, that is not even a good fake. I really thought we had more highly talented individuals out there, or at least more creative ones.

[Jim Tarleton]

Collectively, we have seen a lot of barrels. If we haven't seen this star before, it may not mean it wasn't armory, but it sure makes the odds against it. The current price isn't so bad for the sum of parts.

Just my opinion.

Jim

[Tom Jackson]

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2009/03/DSC02148-1.jpg Here is the star-gauge mark on a 6-32 dated barrel on a M1903A1 NM.

[Tom Jackson]

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2009/03/DSC02010-1.jpg Here is a not-so-good picture of the star-gauge mark on a late, 3-39 dated, NM barrel on M1903A1 NM No. 1526685. This rifle listed in SRS as a DCM sale NM; probably one of the very last ones sold. I haveing been e-mailing SRS for over three months for a sales letter but I have not received a reply.
The old Federal Fisical Year Calendar confuses me. SA manufactured 710 M1903A1 NM rifles in FY 1939. IF the fiscal year ran from July 1, 1939 to June 30, 1940. there should be a late production M1903A1 rifles with 1940 dated barrels. If FY1939 ran from July 1, 1938-June 30, 1939, there are no 1940 dated star-gauged barrels. The crap on the rifle in the picture is dried grease; the rifle shows VERY minimal wear.

[John Beard]

I vote "neither". I have little doubt that the star is real!

J.B.

[John Beard]

Here is a not-so-good picture of the star-gauge mark on a late, 3-39 dated, NM barrel on M1903A1 NM No. 1526685. This rifle listed in SRS as a DCM sale NM; probably one of the very last ones sold. I haveing been e-mailing SRS for over three months for a sales letter but I have not received a reply.
The old Federal Fisical Year Calendar confuses me. SA manufactured 710 M1903A1 NM rifles in FY 1939. IF the fiscal year ran from July 1, 1939 to June 30, 1940. there should be a late production M1903A1 rifles with 1940 dated barrels. If FY1939 ran from July 1, 1938-June 30, 1939, there are no 1940 dated star-gauged barrels. The crap on the rifle in the picture is dried grease; the rifle shows VERY minimal wear.


SA FY 1939 ended on 30 June 1939.

SA dismantled their barrel-making machines in mid-1939. The last barrels were dated S.A./6-39.

SA assembled 290 NM rifles in FY 1940. Those were assembled from leftover parts and generally fall in the S/N 1529xxx range.

J.B.

[Vi Shooter]

Here is a not-so-good picture of the star-gauge mark on a late, 3-39 dated, NM barrel on M1903A1 NM No. 1526685. This rifle listed in SRS as a DCM sale NM; probably one of the very last ones sold. I haveing been e-mailing SRS for over three months for a sales letter but I have not received a reply.
The old Federal Fisical Year Calendar confuses me. SA manufactured 710 M1903A1 NM rifles in FY 1939. IF the fiscal year ran from July 1, 1939 to June 30, 1940. there should be a late production M1903A1 rifles with 1940 dated barrels. If FY1939 ran from July 1, 1938-June 30, 1939, there are no 1940 dated star-gauged barrels. The crap on the rifle in the picture is dried grease; the rifle shows VERY minimal wear.

Tom,

FY1939 for Army Ordnance ended on 6/30/1939. The last star-gauged barrel shown in my data collection was dated "6-39". The next SA barrel date in my data is stamped "12-41" (obviously spares production); I've never had a "40" dated barrel reported to me. Spares production "42" barrels are quite common. There are gaps in the data that suggest that barrel production from early CY1934 on through the 30's was not continuous.

I wouldn't be surprised if SA didn't make any M1903 barrels after 6/1939 as they were busy making Garands. Someone may have a reference handy to check that. Doesn't "Arsenal of Freedom" have this kind of production data?

[Vi Shooter]

I vote "neither". I have little doubt that the star is real!

J.B.

I sent him an email and he modified the relisting to show he isn't suggesting the "star" is something it isn't.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=124476358

John, do you know what that star means? It's in the back of my cluttered mind that I've seen one like it a few years ago.

[John Beard]

I do not know with absolute certainty what the star means. But, I'm reasonably confident the star means that the barrel has been star-gauged. I am not suggesting, however, that the marking originated from Springfield Armory.

Hope this helps.

J.B.

[chuckindenver]

that mark looks more like a torx or a end of a screwdriver bit. and is not likely Military marked.
i have seen other star markings that are GI marked, and not fron the gauge, and that aint it.

[Clyde from Carolina]

Interesting thread. I don't have a 6-39 SA barrel but do have two 3-39s, both on NMs. I also have a 12-41 on a rebuilt RIA '03.

Here's the star mark on the muzzle of my 1526308. I'm not as good a photographer as Tom!

http://www.milsurps.com/images/imported/2009/03/standard-41.jpg

[Jim Tarleton]

I think you did a darn good job, by golly!

Nice picture.

Jim

[Clyde from Carolina]

Thanks, Jim. Only took about twenty snaps to get that one half-way decent pic!

I've got a new camera -and tripod- since then, so I need to give them a whirl. Rick inspired me when he got his Canon Rebel a while back and I put a camera on my Christmas list and Santa must've seen it. It's not too grand, but light years ahead of my old one. Tripod should help, too.