M1 Garand Help

[SGT K]

My Department recntly aquired some Garands to use for our Color and Honor Guard. They came with tube-type blank adapters all ready installed. The problem is, our drill routine requires the officer to manually cycle the action after every blank is fired.

I've included a photo. Can you tell from it if the gas lock has been removed to install the blank adapter? If it has been removed, I don't have them. As you can probably guess,,,,,I'm not very familar with the Garand. Am I going about this in the right way? I can not alter the rifles in such a way that I can not put them back to the condition I received them. Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Paul

[Liftrat]

Yep, looks like the gas cylinder lock is missing (it screws on the barrel where the BFA is now). I'm not very familiar with BFAs, but I wonder if just replacing the BFA with the original setup would let you fire blanks without having the rifle cycle semi-automatically. Hopefully someone more familiar with that arrangement will chime in.

[Ernie]

Yep, your Garand is set up the way they are at almost all posts. The BFA replaces the gas lock. In this fashion you can function the rifle in semi auto mode.

If you really want to function the rifle in manual then I would take off the BFA and purchase locks for them. That way there is no gas buildup to work the action. YOu will have to manually cycle the operating rod to remove the spent round and chamber the next one. I am not sure why you would want to operate them that way but if that is what you want to do thats totally fine with me.

Just remove the BFA, replace with the lock, and you will be good to go in manual mode. I would keep the BFA's however as somewhere in time someone may desire the semi auto mode.

IF you need more info PM me.

Ernie

[John Kepler]

If I were you.....I'd change your drill rather than the rifles! You guys are just asking for trouble trying to use a Garand as a "straight-pull" with blanks! Stay with the BFI and watch how the Marine Honor Guard does it!

[Joe W]

If I were you.....I'd change your drill rather than the rifles! You guys are just asking for trouble trying to use a Garand as a "straight-pull" with blanks! Stay with the BFI and watch how the Marine Honor Guard does it!

I agree with John 100%. You will not find that extracting fired cases with the M1 is as easy as with the 03 and it will throw your team members off. Tell them it is "time for change".:rofl:

[U.S.G.I.]

I agree with John. I'm on a Marine Corps League firing squad and we only do semi auto firing. I have never see anybody do it manually.

Semper Fi...Jeff

[m1903rifle]

It's no problem at all to operate the Garand manually with blanks.......I , along with about 800 other guys , did it for 6 weeks at Bragg in the summer of '66.

[John Kepler]

In 66 maybe.....with the current blanks.....I wouldn't try it! I've worked on too many VFW rifles for Mr. Whitten to say it's a good idea!

[U.S.G.I.]

I might add that I would be very careful with this kind of BFA. I have seen a couple of rifles with the barrel thread ruined. You must keep these BFA tight, don't let them become loose. I prefer to use the Hollywood adapters myself. They look more real and stay tight. Simple to install, remove your gas cylinder lock and screw, install the hollywood adapter and screw on your lock screw.

Semper Fi...

[SGT K]

Wow, I came back to the computer this evening and now I have a lot to think about.

Ernie, where is a good place to find some gas locks?* I'm pretty sure I can do this, even though I don't have much experience.

John, Joe and Jeff - I realize this forum is not about Honor Guards, but this is what I want to do - After coming to the firing position, on command the left hand comes off of the handguard and quickly slides down to the operating rod and works the action while the weapon is held by the firing hand in port arms.* The trick is,,,,,,,,,,getting everyone to cycle at the same time.* Seven rifles cycling at the same is awe inspiring, but,,,,,,,,,,it is hard to get everyone in time.* You can have only three people out of seven actually firing a live round if you want, but a rifle cycling out of time is pretty noticable.

I don't have any experince with 30-06 blanks.* Will they be considerably harder to eject than a 5.56?* Our 5.56 blanks don't always feed very well, will I have more problems with the 06?* I've got some fine young men to work with but we only have so much time to practice.

Thank you for all of your posts.* I all ready have my first question answered and I am gratefull to all of you.

Paul

[rongee]

After coming to the firing position, on command the left hand comes off of the handguard and quickly slides down to the operating rod and works the action while the weapon is held by the firing hand in port arms.* The trick is,,,,,,,,,,getting everyone to cycle at the same time.* Seven rifles cycling at the same is awe inspiring, but,,,,,,,,,,it is hard to get everyone in time.

This maneuver is not particularly easy to perform, especially if it has not been thoroughly practiced and rehearsed with the honor guard. A previous poster stated that he used to manually cycle the op rod without difficulty along with 800 other guys. But doing it as a training exercise is one thing, doing it in sync with six other guys is another. I vote with the majority; render the rifles semi-auto.

[John Kepler]

I don't have any experince with 30-06 blanks.*
l

Trust me! It shows!

The "operative" numbers are: 1.760" length by 0.376" diameter versus 2.494" length by 0.470" diameter. The "operative" equation is A=(3.1416 X D) x H. The bigger the number, the harder your job cycling the action is going to be! Hint: A Garand isn't an AR!

If you still insist, then the only other comment is the same as given to Kamikazi pilots on their first/last flight, "Rotsa ruck!"

[deano41]

I went to sleep thinking about this last night. There are a lot of different factors involved here. Are the rifles held at port arms during firing? I would hope I was on the very right hand side of that formation. Holding an M1 Rifle at port arms, by the wrist of the stock would be awkward, instead of holding it with the left hand at the balance point as taught in the manual of arms. It would be interesting to see where the ejected shells land also, as an M1 Rifle doesn't alsways eject to the side. I think I would want to practice this excercise before deciding to reinvent the manual of arms for the M1 Rifle.

But what do I know, this is how I was taught at Fort Ord, 47 years ago!

Dean (the other one)

[rongee]

Holding an M1 Rifle at port arms, by the wrist of the stock would be awkward, instead of holding it with the left hand at the balance point as taught in the manual of arms.

What SGT. K is suggesting is that the drill team execute an inspection arms, only with a full rifle. A trainee would open the bolt for inspection by grasping the rifle at the wrist with the right hand and racking the slide with the left. However, the rifle is empty and therefore the bolt will lock back. If any member of the honor guard short strokes the op rod with rounds in the mag, the rifle will either re-chamber the spent brass or eject the brass without chambering a new round. Admittedly, when honor guards were formed from troops in the field, they cycled the rifle manually because they sure weren't going to hand out blank adapters. But these guys knew what they were doing.

This is how they "learned" me at Ft. Ord 50 years ago.

[deano41]

Well Ron, now you made me drag the Garand out of the safe and practice Inspect Arms. Rifle is brought to port arms, held with the left hand at the balance point. Right hand, palm up, grasps the operating rod handle with the little finger, and pulls the bolt back. Right hand then returns to grip the rifle at the wrist. This was the way we were taught in the Army (our side). Some things you just never forget!

Dean (the other one)

We were taught to pull the op rod handle with the right little finger to keep from taking skin off your right index finger joint on the windage knob. I know, I have the scars to prove that one!

[Maury Krupp]

Well Ron, now you made me drag the Garand out of the safe and practice Inspect Arms. Rifle is brought to port arms, held with the left hand at the balance point. Right hand, palm up, grasps the operating rod handle with the little finger, and pulls the bolt back. Right hand then returns to grip the rifle at the wrist. This was the way we were taught in the Army (our side). Some things you just never forget!

Dean (the other one)

We were taught to pull the op rod handle with the right little finger to keep from taking skin off your right index finger joint on the windage knob. I know, I have the scars to prove that one!
Well, with all due respect to your Drill Sergeants, if that's the way you were taught, you were taught wrong :nono:

From FM 22-5 29 Aug 58 (the version current in 1962):

44. Inspection Arms
a. The command is INSPECTION, ARMS. Inspection arms is a 4-count movement, and is executed only from the position of order arms.
b. The first two counts are the same as in going to port arms (1 and 2, fig. 17). On the third count, release your left hand from the balance and, with yourleft thumb on the operating rod handle and push it smartly to the rear until it is caught by the operating rod catch. At the same time, lower your head and eyes enough to look into the receiver (fig. 22). On the fourth count, having found the receiver empty or having emptied it, raise your head and eyes to the front and at the same time regrasp the rifle at the balance with your left hand.

Either way, manually cycling an M1 with precision desired from a drill team firing party will be no easy task. Doing it right will require a whole lot more practice than most are willing to invest. That's one of the reasons blank adapters were invented in the first place ;)

Maury

[Bill Hollinger]

SGT K, I think you will find that manually operating the op-rod after a blank has been fired may not be as easy as you think if the case expands at all. But, if you pull the BFAs and replace them with the lock and screw and then fire the blank with no build up of pressure there may not be the expansion either. You can also have some light blanks loaded with regular 30-06 brass and a wax plug.

[deano41]

Maury, thank you for your polite, gentle correction! I won't argue with you or the FM. I did try it that way, and it does work. I guess I'm ready for "the home". SIGH

Dean (the other one)

[SGT K]

Oh boy, my very first post and I'm going against the experts. I tried to log on once this afternoon and couldn't - I figured you all had all ready kicked me off.

I am going to convert a few of these rifles and try them on the the Color Guard Officers first. If we can't perform the drill to our satisfaction I will not proceede to the rest of the team and I will put the BFAs back on. AND,,,,,,,,,,I will come back here and concede that you were all 100% correct. I've seen some full-time teams do this though, and I've just got to try.

Thanks to everyone who responded. I learned something from each opinion and I'm sure I'll have more simple questions.

Special thanks for the best wishes.
Rotsa Ruck
Paul