84 Carbine shoots high

[oakfarm]

I shot my 84 Carbine today and I can't set the sight low enough. I was shooting old Winchester ammo with 405 gr.lead. The carbine has the Buffington carbine rear sight and the tall front sight,were they able to be set for 100 yards? or should I try different loads?TIA Lee W. P.S. 6 inches high above point of aim.:sos:

[TerryS]

Hmm, there is a constant drone on these boards about military rifles shooting high. It could be your target instead. Try getting cardboard cutout of a standing man and draw a belt on the figure. Then using issue ammunition, and the correct sight settings. Try sighting on the belt buckle and then move the target from 0 to 300 yards. Bet you will hit it every time. Now if you want to shoot black circles, get a target rifle. You will only need one per year, because all the bullets will go through the same hole. Try sho:banghead:oting for groups.

[oakfarm]

OK Terry, I undrestand your reasoning but I thought I should have been able to adjust my sights to shoot at a 100yd target.Was that not the reason the 1890 front sight was higher than previous TD sights.Thanks for your reply.Lee W.

[Mark Daiute]

Nope!

The sights aren't calibrated for targets as close as 100 yards.

Don't the graduations start at 200 yards?

[Viclav]

There was a reason officers went down the firing line during battle yelling "Aim low!"

Victor

[truckysm]

These are battle sights. They range from 200 yards to 2000 yards. Some people install a taller front blade to bring them down. This may give you a one-hundred yard sight but it will change all the values printed on the sight. Others use two targets at one hundred yards. One placed below the other. Aim at the lower one and hit the upper one. Shooting for consistent groups. Still others simple shoot high at one hundred yards. A running man with-in a hundred yards might mean its time to draw your pistol.

[oakfarm]

Thanks guys; I don't plan on match shooting with the carbine,I only have a 100yd range out the back door.Lee W.

[Larry Gibson]

I shot my 84 Carbine today and I can't set the sight low enough. I was shooting old Winchester ammo with 405 gr.lead. The carbine has the Buffington carbine rear sight and the tall front sight,were they able to be set for 100 yards? or should I try different loads?TIA Lee W. P.S. 6 inches high above point of aim.:sos:

You need to try different loads, preferably handloads. The carbine sights are regulated for the 45-55 carbine load not the 45-70 service rifle loads. It is probably the velocity and recoil of the ammo you are using that is causing the 6" high groups. I'm assuming you are also talking about using the Buffington ladder sight and not the battle sight. The battle sight will group high at 100 yards as it zeroed for around 265 yards. Try working up a load with a 400-405 gr bullet with a velocity in the 1000-1150 fps range.

Larry Gibson

[Mark Daiute]

these are the targets I use. I shoot a relay, rotate the target 180° and then shoot another relay

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e268/Mayne1713/cloverleaf.jpg

the bulls are 12" apart

[oakfarm]

Thanks Mark,Nice targets,where did you get them? What type are they?ie-200yd large bore? Lee W.

[shjoe]

Thanks Mark,Nice targets,where did you get them? What type are they?ie-200yd large bore? Lee W.

Oakfarm - as other members have mentioned, there is a significant difference in POI between the folded "battle sight" and the vertical sight leaf when shooting at close range (100-200yds). i use my previously cut down rifle/carbine for hunting and have been able to attain an aproximate 100yd zero by canging the front sight blade to a taller one from a M1903A3, then at the range, file down the sight until i had the results i needed. as others have said, your rear sight leaf graduations will be somewhat scewed, but not by as much as you may think, esp at close range. further out (300+yds) due to the tradjectory of the 405gr bullet, there is more of a difference. the cartridge loading would be another factor to consider. my hunting carbine shoots reasonable off hand hunting groups of 3-4 inches and approx 2" high at 75-80yds and the same size groups about 2" low at 120yds. i wont get a longer range shot in the maine woods where i hunt, so that is acceptable to me. my reloads are based somewhat on Wolf's "The Book" on 45/70 cartridge loading. i use 53gr of FFg with a lubed veggy wad (to partly compress the powder) followed by a cast 405gr RN lubed bullet. i drilled out the primer hole per Wolf's instructions. this loading works in my rifle only. you milage may vary. best, john

[Mark Daiute]

I made them up myself. the black is 6" in diameter... Aren't the 100 yard NRA targets (simulated 200 yrd) 6 inch bulls? I thought I patterened the dimensions after the NRA dimensions. Maybe not.

I'm an out of work land surveyor. I have a couple of plotters as well as a blue line (blueprint) machine so I can simply print the targets or print a vellum of the target and then run a bunch of blue line targets.

Shjoe- I live in Newcastle, Maine. Where do you hunt?

[shjoe]

I made them up myself. the black is 6" in diameter... Aren't the 100 yard NRA targets (simulated 200 yrd) 6 inch bulls? I thought I patterened the dimensions after the NRA dimensions. Maybe not.

I'm an out of work land surveyor. I have a couple of plotters as well as a blue line (blueprint) machine so I can simply print the targets or print a vellum of the target and then run a bunch of blue line targets.

Shjoe- I live in Newcastle, Maine. Where do you hunt?

Mark, i alternately hunt in two areas of maine. georgetown island and central maine, near madison. both areas are typical new england hunting conditions and tend to favor short barreled carbines such as marlins, winchesters. in some cases, a shotgun could be used effectively. best, john