As the Long Branches flood in... [Archive] - Military Surplus Collectors Forums

Cantom

01-05-2007, 01:50 PM

They've been coming fast and furious lately...2 months ago I had the same 49 LB I've had for 15 years. Now I have 6 of them...
41, 42, 43, 44, 49, 50

The 41 is a Whitworth Sporter from England. Here's the writeup on it from CGNTZ EE.
Whitworth No 4 Sporter in 303. Assembled post war with surplus parts. (no Enfields were harmed in the production of this rifle) Witworth and Manchester are stamped on the barrel. Action is Long Branch Mk 1, 1941. Early bolt design. Magazine is the proper 5 round "Made in England" stamped on the bottom. Bore is bright and shiny. Wood is VG, metal is VG. The bolt, action and barrel have all matching serial numbers. "56" on barrel indicating year of manufacture. Not drilled and tapped for scope mount. Nice little hunting rig or bush gun. EMT preferred.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/WhitworthLB1941Sporter.jpg

I also got a 42 in rather challenged shape, which I've already improved considerably...the barrel is bobbed 1/2", the finish is chipped British black paint and worn original, the s/n has been scrubbed and redone in British...but the price was right and it is a 42. Pics to follow as I think I deleted the ones I had by mistake...

Yesterday, I picked up this 1950. The metal is as new, perfect bluing and a bore that looks like it never fired a round. It is a blued rifle and the s/n is just a few hundred above my 49. (I know of someone with a parked 1950 for sale).
The wood is a bit beat up, but it's within reason. Numbers match.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/50LB002.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/50LB001.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/50LB005.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/50LB003.jpg

Mag in this rifle is a Savage.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/50LB006.jpg

Claven2

01-05-2007, 09:43 PM

Savage mags are normal on a 44 or later LB. Nice rifle.

Cantom

01-05-2007, 10:30 PM

Here's the 42 I got a few days ago. It's hurtin' a trifle...I put my early LB bands and LB rear sight on it, plus some non matching wood I have around...

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/50LB008.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/50LB009.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/50LB010.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/50LB011.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/50LB012.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/50LB013.jpg

The gunsmith tells me for $200, he will extend the barrel and give it the stock tapers and refinish it in the same grey finish that early LB's were in originally. He said powder blasted and blued will give it that grey smooth finish...I don't have that much in this so would this be worth it? I believe so, 42's aren't growing on trees...I have 3 NOS LB safeties of the right year and design coming from New Zealand...
This rifle has a mint mint 2 groove barrel...looks unfired. Barrel and receiver are both C Broad Arrow marked. Barrel also has Surrey on top...hmmmm...

stencollector

01-05-2007, 10:54 PM

I put my early LB bands
Do you mean the hinged type bands, or the milled type bands? I have a front hinged L band, but need to find a middle one.
Why is the origional serial number ground off? I can't make out the numbers underneath the grind mark.

Cantom

01-05-2007, 11:15 PM

Do you mean the hinged type bands, or the milled type bands? I have a front hinged L band, but need to find a middle one.
Why is the origional serial number ground off? I can't make out the numbers underneath the grind mark.

Hinged? Were the bands on a 41 or 42 supposed to be hinged? Somewhere I saw a pic of a rifle with hinged bands I think...was any No 4 made with hinges?
The bands I have on here are the thick style, possibly milled? The later years have much thinner bands.
I had a very hard time convincing myself to get this rlfle. The serial number desecration and cut barrel made it near worthless IMHO...but over 2 or 3 weeks I thought about it and suddenly decided it might be worth it anyway. What the hey, it's still a 42 Long Branch...the Brits probably did that in some FTR ing frenzy...just like that lovely black paint peeling off all over the place.
The nice bore was a very unexpected bonus. The rifle is actually not bad looking as it sits with full wood on it...here's the before pics from the seller.(top one)

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/IMG_4137.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/IMG_4138.jpg

stencollector

01-06-2007, 12:17 AM

Early LBs were hinged. The one hinged band I have is clearly LB marked. It even shows them in the Cdn parts manual. I'm not so sure about the middle band though, as the parts manual doesn't show or mention it. Nor do I know when they changed from hinged to non-hinged. I do know that the low wood (made to fit the mag cutoff that was only on the earliest no4mk1s) ran to about 7L rifles.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/stencollector/LBbands.jpg
I was pretty sure my no4mk1T trials rifle (Enfield made) had the hinged center band, I recall for certain that it had the front one.

36 hamon

01-06-2007, 08:46 AM

The very early 41's had hindged bands like the early brit but they were changed to the heavy milled type quikly in 41 so both types are legit .in all my years of collecting LB's I've seen one set of hindged bands and they are on my friends early 41 .keep digging in parts boxes at gunshows you might get lucky

Brewster

01-06-2007, 08:55 AM

SO you bought the 41 LB on CGN....

I figured that would go quickly...

Cantom

01-06-2007, 10:48 AM

Cantom

01-06-2007, 10:49 AM

SO you bought the 41 LB on CGN....

I figured that would go quickly...

I think it was there about 10 minutes total...;)

Cantom

01-06-2007, 10:52 AM

SO you bought the 41 LB on CGN....

I figured that would go quickly...

I'm hoping to have it Monday. I'll post pics of course.

Claven2

01-06-2007, 11:06 AM

FWIW, the hinged bands were only used on very early 1941 LB's. they are VERY uncommon.

The LB with the restamped serial number looks like a typical Indian refurbed No.4 to me. Or possibly Pakistani... but you get the idea.

Bead blasted and blued will somewhat emulate post-war parkerizing, powder blasting and blueing would be a close match to wartime LB factory finish.

stencollector

01-06-2007, 12:15 PM

FWIW, the hinged bands were only used on very early 1941 LB's. they are VERY uncommon.

Darn, thats going to make it tough for me to find the middle one then. Oh well, if it weren't for these little quests for holy grails, what fun would the hobby be?
My apologies to Granite, with whom I horsetraded for that band...I didn't think they were that hard to come by. :wave:

Cantom

01-06-2007, 05:50 PM

Darn, thats going to make it tough for me to find the middle one then. Oh well, if it weren't for these little quests for holy grails, what fun would the hobby be?
My apologies to Granite, with whom I horsetraded for that band...I didn't think they were that hard to come by. :wave:

Hehe...maybe the middle band wasn't hinged, only the front one as in that diagram you posted.

I agree, I've always found looking for (and finding) the obscure parts the most fun part of the whole hobby, and that was also true in my other hobbies of fixing up Triumph motorcycles and VW buses.

At this point I have $237 in this rifle including a brand new LB butt I bought on ebay that's coming. Would it be worth it to spend $200 more to put the metal and barrel length right, with the Indian refurb serial number desecration factored in, or just leave it as is? It has the right bands on it, right rear sight, wood is mismatched.
It's actually not bad looking at that...funny thing is I put an Ishy screwed lower forestock on it...might be the right place for it eh? ;)

Claven2

01-06-2007, 09:02 PM

I've never seen a hinged middle band - only the front one.

stencollector

01-07-2007, 11:47 AM

Has anyone seen a LB no4 middle band hinged? Sure save me a lot of hassle not looking for unicorns.

Cantom

01-08-2007, 01:14 PM

This is a beautiful rifle! Virtually perfect from one end to the other, mint bore, all the s/n's match, bluing is like new. Barrel is stamped 41. Lots of interesting proof marks.
Only complaint, as I knew- the Long Branch 1941 is almost polished right off the left side, but can still be made out.
This is definitely a Mk I, not a Mk I*. It has the little spring latch for removing the bolt head at the rear. A great acquisition.

The 41 is a Whitworth Sporter from England. Here's the writeup on it from CGNTZ EE.
Whitworth No 4 Sporter in 303. Assembled post war with surplus parts. (no Enfields were harmed in the production of this rifle) Witworth and Manchester are stamped on the barrel. Action is Long Branch Mk 1, 1941. Early bolt design. Magazine is the proper 5 round "Made in England" stamped on the bottom. Bore is bright and shiny. Wood is VG, metal is VG. The bolt, action and barrel have all matching serial numbers. "56" on barrel indicating year of manufacture. Not drilled and tapped for scope mount. Nice little hunting rig or bush gun. EMT preferred.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/WhitworthLB1941Sporter.jpg

Cantom

01-10-2007, 11:32 AM

Are sporters really my thing? Not at all, but this is a pretty nice one...

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/41LB2.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/41LB9.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/41LB14.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/41LB18.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/41LB3.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/41LB7.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/41LB8.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/41LB11.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/41LB22.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/41LB16.jpg

sdh1911

01-10-2007, 03:55 PM

Utterly beautiful! I only have a few common wealth rifles but would add that one in a heartbeat-SDH

Cantom

01-10-2007, 04:48 PM

Utterly beautiful! I only have a few common wealth rifles but would add that one in a heartbeat-SDH

Thanks. I'd like to perform a wee gonadal adjustment with a frozen mukluk on whoever polished the left side of the receiver though...;)

Cantom

01-14-2007, 03:29 PM

Today I bought a 1945 Long Branch at the gun show. It's a beauty...that gives me one of every year up to and including 1950. I kind of doubt I'll ever get anything newer than that but you never know...

As I once said, sometimes Bubbas are more interesting than scoring a perfect standard specimen...what's to say about an almost perfect stock rifle? :)
I wish to thank Bob, who made this available to me.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/45LB009.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/45LB010.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/45LB008.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/45LB007.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/45LB004.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/45LB005.jpg

This rifle is fitted with a LB Mk I rear sight, which isn't right, but who am I to hold it against it...it's my favourite sight anyway.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/45LB011.jpg

Cantom

01-14-2007, 03:33 PM

I guess I'm done for now. Here are 6 of them lined up from right to left, from 41 to 50, the 49 is away getting the Bubba scope mount holes I Bubba'ed in it welded up so they're lined up in a bit of a missing man formation...

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/6LBs001.jpg

Claven2

01-14-2007, 05:12 PM

Nice looking 45! Now you need to find a C-> MkIII sight for it. That Mk1 sight is really only correct for a 1941 or early 1942 LB rifle ;)

koldt

01-14-2007, 07:12 PM

OK, so then is this MkIII sight correct for my 20L 1942? It's LB and C/|\ marked as well.
http://www3.telus.net/hansonk/mk3sight.jpg
http://www3.telus.net/hansonk/mk3sight2.jpg

Cantom

01-14-2007, 08:06 PM

Nice looking 45! Now you need to find a C-> MkIII sight for it. That Mk1 sight is really only correct for a 1941 or early 1942 LB rifle ;)

I just got one (Mk III, not CMK3) from ebay on Thursday, and I installed it on my 44 LB last night to replace the Mk II sight on it since apparently it is also correct for a 44. I'm not sure who put the Mk I on the 45 but I'm not complaining about it...:) Easy enough to change someday...

I'm not sure what year they switched to the CMK3 sight, my 49 and 50 both have them.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/44LBWITHMARKIIISIGHT2.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/44LBWITHMKIIISIGHT1.jpg

Here's a few of the variations. The Brits had the Mk III with no solid base, it was hollow.The Canadian sight looks tons better. Just like our rifles eh??
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/Mk3sightvariations.jpg

Claven2

01-14-2007, 08:13 PM

Klunk:
Is the rifle blued or parked? If parked, it's a refurb and anything's correct ;) A 1942 PROBABLY was built with a MkII flip sight, but if it's a late '42, it could posibly have also have a MkIII sight, though they tend to show up most in 1943 and later.

Cantom

01-14-2007, 08:19 PM

[QUOTE=koldt;3301]OK, so then is this MkIII sight correct for my 20L 1942? It's LB and C/|\ marked as well.

I think that 42 should have a Mk I sight.
That's also the later "slipper" safety design, the third variation for LB AFAIK. You need the round one.

koldt

01-14-2007, 11:02 PM

I think that 42 should have a Mk I sight.
That's also the later "slipper" safety design, the third variation for LB AFAIK. You need the round one.

I've heard that before about the safety, however I've heard and read that this variant was possible. There is absolutely no signs of disassembly or screws being touched, so it appears this is original to the rifle, and the wear, etc is consistent as well. Who knows, may have been changed sometime later as well, post war??

Boy, these pics with the flash make the finish appear somewhat worse. I usually try to get shots without using flash. But I was in a hurry and didn't want to wait till morning.

Cantom

01-14-2007, 11:18 PM

I've heard that before about the safety, however I've heard and read that this variant was possible. There is absolutely no signs of disassembly or screws being touched, so it appears this is original to the rifle, and the wear, etc is consistent as well. Who knows, may have been changed sometime later as well, post war??

Boy, these pics with the flash make the finish appear somewhat worse. I usually try to get shots without using flash. But I was in a hurry and didn't want to wait till morning.

I know what you mean. On my 41 it looks rusty in the pics but in reality it's not.

Claven2

01-15-2007, 07:08 AM

Blueing is, after all, a form of rust and sometimes the flash brings that out ;)

koldt

01-15-2007, 02:07 PM

Blueing is, after all, a form of rust and sometimes the flash brings that out ;)

I know, but I do like the blue/black colour, rather than the brown:) .

It's way better to take the pictures using a tripod and natural light.

Cantom

01-15-2007, 05:48 PM

Dear Tom,

Good to hear from you.

We will not be importing any Longbranch Enfields from Italy.
We had numerous inquiries on these things initially, but the vast majority of customers didn't want to pay more than $150-200.00 each for them.
We had customers emailing us demanding them at $150.00 and another said they only cost Euroarms $25.00 a piece for scrap metal, (I don't
know how the customer would have known this), and therefore they should not be over $200.00 after we cover our costs, etc., etc.
They were going to cost us more than that without the added air freight, duties, administrative fees, etc.
I was totally discgusted with the whole issue and decided not to bring any in.
We would have had to import at least 50 at a time, and if we only had a couple customers willing to pay more than $200.00 each, we'd
be stuck with a lot of inventory.
Anyway, that's the story Tom. People wanted them, but they didn't want to pay the price.
I don't even know if there are any left in Italy now.
Sorry we couldn't be of more assistance Tom. We tried our best. It wasn't going to work out.
Have a great day.
Your Servant,
Blair
www.loyalistarms.freeservers.com
"Those who go down to the sea in ships, Who do business on great waters,
They see the works of the Lord,
And His wonders in the deep." Psalm 107:23-24.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 7:46 PM
To: Loyalist Arms
Subject: re Long Branch rifles in Italy

Hi, I spoke to you before about the skids of rifles that were being sold out of Italy I think it was.

There is a huge market for Long Branch Enfields in Canada! $600 is easily realized for a decent specimen.
Worth it to get a bunch if you can.

Tom

Cantom

07-19-2007, 03:03 PM

By very lucky coincidence last week I asked dealer JP in Quebec if he knew where I could find a 1941 No 4 Mk I Long Branch. He said he actually had one for sale. I was totally unaware of it before but I've been told that several members on here had seen his ad before. After seeing a few pics I said I'll take it and today I received it.
It's a very nice rifle! OL 79XX, so not as early as some. In fact, if they only made 7555 or something like that in 1941, wouldn't that be a late 41? It is definitely a No 4 Mk I, and I have heard that there are No 4 Mk I * 41's in existence...so it's not as late as they get.
Bore is very bright indeed, it has a 42 LB barrel which looks to be a 5 groove. Bolt and receiver numbers match, in fact all parts appear original and unchanged on first glance. Receiver finish is still the LB greyish bluing, thankfully not Suncorite. Wood appears to be maple. Buttplate is Zanac.
I see traces of Cosmoline in the LB Mk I rear sight, the aperture is plugged with it.
On the left receiver, the Brits have electropenciled the Serial Number and FTR right over the Long Branch stamping for some reason known only to them. Otherwise virtually original. If you hold it at the right angle you can't see the electropencil.
Bolt head is a 0. Headspace is perfect.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/MVC-001F.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/MVC-002F.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/MVC-003F.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/MVC-005F.jpg

Badger

07-20-2007, 07:59 AM

Nice going Cantom ... :thup:

Regards,
Badger

stoggie

07-20-2007, 09:41 PM

Cantom,

I was looking at that rifle. Nice grab. What does he mean by "early MkI forestock"?

Stoggie

stencollector

07-21-2007, 12:25 AM

What does he mean by "early MkI forestock"?

The wood is cut lower on the right side to allow for the non-existant mag cut-off. I have early wood here which has been serialised to their rifles: I believe some of it is even in the 8L, so the low wood went for quite a while of production.

Cantom

07-21-2007, 08:13 PM

The wood is cut lower on the right side to allow for the non-existant mag cut-off. I have early wood here which has been serialised to their rifles: I believe some of it is even in the 8L, so the low wood went for quite a while of production.

My 42 Long Branch also has the low cutout on the right side. It's numbered 10L...
Can anyone tell me if the wood for my 41 is birch or maple?

Schneider

07-22-2007, 08:31 PM

Wow Cantom ! Really nice Long branch..i didnt saw this one on the P&S website ,if yes,i would have buyed it for sure :D !

Magnificient,to say the last :)..

I really need to go at his place to see first hand his enfield,i want one so bad !!!

Schneider

longbranch*

07-23-2007, 10:49 AM

Cantom

07-23-2007, 03:18 PM

That was the first '41 LB I've seen listed anywhere in a long time, looks very nice. My '41 is OL6XXX and has what I beleive is probably birch furniture. Have maple on a DCRA LB and its noticably heavier. My '41 barrel is serialed to gun and is 2-groove, LB MKI sight and hinged front band. My bolt is m/m otherwise would have hollowed out knob.
Geoff

Hollowed out knob...interesting that you mention that...this 41 rifle doesn't have a hollowed out knob but the bolt is matching. My other 41 LB (Whitworth Sporter) does have a hollowed out bolt knob...

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/41LB031.jpg

Is something out of whack here? Some did some didn't or should be hollowed?

Here's my 41 and 42, both with the low cut forend. I believe the 42 has maple, perhaps the 41 is birch, obviously lighter.

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/RiflesduJour007.jpg

My Whitworth 41 Long Branch No 4 Mk I is a beautiful rifle, 3 matching numbers, shiny perfect bore, beautiful wood and bluing, all the proofs still there on the bbl. I'm thinking of selling it if anyone's looking for one. Finding an original is a rare thing. There's no rust on it, the pics lie. Only issue is, whoever blued it almost polished off the Long Branch 1941 stamping, it can still be read but...
Anyone want to swap me for a military EAL rifle?

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/41LB9.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/41LB001.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/41LB024.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/41LB012.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/41LB010.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/41LB009.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/41LB002.jpg
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l88/cantom_2006/41LB18.jpg