Security guys (in grey) inside Newark Airport

[2571]

What kind of longarms are they carrying? They certainly are dressed to intimidate, enough so that I didn't want to stare. Are those auto weapons or semi-automatic? Are they TSA or Port Authority?

Guys I saw looked tired, bored and not very re-assuring.

[Jim K]

Probably either Port Authority or NJ State Police. The latest big kick in LE is patrolling airports carrying MP5's, looking as intimidating as possible, and frightening women and children. Any real terrorist knows the whole thing is a farce and will ignore the strutting Gestapo wannabes.

Jim

[Marty C]

Wow! That is a bold statement considering that the "gestapo wannabes" as you put it are the first ones to run towards the sounds of danger as most everyone else is either screaming or running away for their lives. The Officers described are either Port Authority Tactical Unit or possibly NJSP. As far as "looking intimidating and frightening women and children" as you put it, that sounds like a very bitter statement. Having worn the uniform and actually responded to danger, most likely to protect you, I have to wonder if you have had your share of problems with Law Enforcement and are bitter or perhaps you even thought of becoming a Police Officer at one time and were rejected? Either way it is because of those very men and women, whom you mock, who shoulder weapons and go into harms way so that you can feel safer in an airport or train station. Instead of being so frustrated and perhaps feeling a little inferior, try thanking one of the officers for their willingness to protect everyone......even you! I will close by saying something you have most likely heard many times "Have a nice day and please slow down"!

[JB White]

It's more like a general dislike for what many of todays LEO's portray when they aren't doing those things you said. Their 'mightier-than-thou' attitudes and talking down to people as though they are dogs rather than citizens.
Mostly because we don't enjoy living in a para-military police state and for now we still have the right to voice our distain.

The overall respect for policemen in general that existed in the 50's and 60's has gone the way of the Dodo. Thank your LEO brothers in black tactical gear and Rambo personalities for that.

[Marty C]

I don't want to drag this out but I would like to reply to a few of your statements. The "mightier than thou" attitude you may have experienced could be the result of having to take control and exhibit a command presence. Many times in my 28 years of Law Enforcement i was forced to be less than polite in order to get the attention i needed to control a situation. No, not everybody should be treated like a criminal, But yes, some people need to be treated like a criminal. That is just a fact of life. No one deserves to be talked "down to" or "like a dog" unless of course they are acting less than human and more like a dog! I for do not support a para-military state. Having served my time in the USMC and Law Enforcement I do see the need for freedom and NOT a police state. As far as your statement "Thank your LEO brothers in black tactical gear and Rambo personalities" i would simply reply that the black tactical gear is great, works well and is free, they issue it to us as part of our mission. The "Rambo personality" really does come in handy when you are going up against those who would cause you harm, you know what I mean, the people who cause you and others to run and fear. We do not have that option, we must press forward and in some cases give our lives so that you can continue to post messages here. I will close by saying this. The vast MAJORITY of Police Officers are people just like you. Perhaps a bit more aggressive and willing to face the threats out there. But they have families and dreams as you do. They also like to be treated with respect and dignity. Keep this in mind and perhaps you will relax and not be so on edge around those who are carrying more firepower than you " People (like you) sleep peaceably in their beds at night because rough men (and women) stand ready to do violence on their behalf". Semper-FI.

[Ken C.]

Marty, you said it as well as it can be said. I will add that the only ones who will truly understand what you are saying is others who have stood in your shoes. Most people are not going to condemn everybody on the force because of the misdeeds of a few. What is easily forgotten is that the police are as human as everyone else, and subject to the same failings, in some cases. Another thing largely overlooked by the people who do not have to deal with them is just how many scumbag lowlifes there are among us. Fortunately, the vast majority of people are NOT intimidated by the police, and that does NOT make them Sheeple. Thats my opinion anyway. Ken C.

[Dan Wilson]

Personally I don't think the full auto subguns that these "cops" carry should be permissible.
Why do they have rights and privileges that Citizens don't have?

If there is problems do you think that you want some puke gestapo with a sub-gun spraying and praying "to protect little old me" even though their marksmanship is frequently very questionable or someone that may shoot something that requires aimed fire and accuracy.

Sorry Marty, but "cops/gestapo" whatever their pedigree have NO PLACE with full auto subguns PERIOD

I have every confidence in being able to protect me and mine so I could give a squat less if there were no cops at all.

Dan

[Marty C]

"Why do they have rights and privileges that citizens don't have?" Ok, I will attempt to answer your question although I do believe the answer is obvious. They, some well trained Police Special Units, carry full auto capable weapons because they train with them and can deploy them when necessary. Having trained these Teams ( here and overseas ) I personally prefer a 3-shot burst over a full-auto weapon because of round accountability. In a war zone it is nice to have full-auto and lay down suppressive fire to allow Team movement but in most cases involving Police action full-auto can be a liability. Now unless you actually asked to see the weapons in question they may have had a 3-shot burst limit and you assumed it to be fill-auto. Now to the point. Most if not all Special Police Units are far better trained than the "range warrior" who has no idea of what an actual gunfight is all about and has only faced paper or plastic targets. These Units train several times a month in drills that the average citizen could not perform without the same dedication and training. It can be very rewarding to dump a magazine into a "bad-guy" and know that his intend on harming you or others has been stopped. I really have to chuckle at those of you who display such an anger towards the Law Enforcement Community and state that they "could give a squat if there were no cops at all". Maybe you can protect yourself, maybe not. But no matter what your opinion of Law Enforcement is the beauty is that they, the Police, stand ready and willing to come to your aid when you realize your overmatched and the "paper" is shooting back. And for the record, I fully support the carrying of firearms by EVERYONE...with three conditions. A-Criminal background check B-Mental health check (hey I might not pass that one) and last but just as important, proof of completion of a basic firearms course, you pick it, NRA, Local Club or which ever will train a person in basic firearms safety. Hey, you have to (or at least should have to) pass a test to drive a car!

[0311Shooter]

I have no dog in this pony race but I have an opinion.

Have met a lot of LEO's and there are good ones, VERY good ones in fact, and there are a few bad ones. Some relish the job and use it to blow out their chests. To them, every person on the road deserves a ticket, every law breaker should be snuffed out.

But the good ones consider it a job, yet an important job, to defend the weak and to stop the criminal element. They see honest citizens as those who would work with them, help them if they needed help too.

So, some bad people, but mostly good people. Gee, kinda like humans in general.

[Marty C]

Well said. as in ANY profession there are good and bad examples. Not everyone deserves a ticket and not everyone is a criminal. Sometimes pride in your work can force out your chest and that may not be such a bad thing. I always appreciated the citizen who stopped to help or at least gave a statement supporting my actions against a person resisting arrest and attempting to harm me or my partner. I also appreciate the fact that there are trained and armed citizens who would assist in a tight spot. But so far most of the attitude on this particular subject has been very angry and anti-Law Enforcement. I can honestly tell you that during my many years running highway drug interdiction and felony stops it was that attitude that got you pulled out of your car and locked up. The result was always a person hiding some sort of drug, weapon or warrant. i could never figure that out. Why not be nice and smile, let the nice Policeman write his ticket and send you on your way. Every time it was the attitude that did them in. Oh well, that was my past life. Now i get to pass on my experience to the next generation.

[Redhand]

Well for a minute there I thought the SOUTH had risen again and that we had some Federates ( as my 8 yr. old grandson affectionatly refers to them) in uniform. And some sound advice to those who want to generalize all P.O.'s as gestapo, you had better hope that it's not a Federate. I've been called a gestapo and it hurt for awhile until I read between the lines about the character who was doing the character assassination. What a worthless piece of anarchist, lilly livid liberal he appears to be. If he were lying on the ground on fire and I come upon him again I will pee beside him while I call 911.:super::madsmile::dancingbanana::beerchug::sos ::surrender::yikes::runaway:

[2571]

city cop.

I hold with Jim K. These guys had attitudes that made me think they were high-salary rentacops who had never been at a homicide scene or a vice raid.

That counter-productive attitude didn't exist much when I was a LEO.

[ntd34]

Not a good time to be bad mouthin the men in blue.Not long out of the Corps I waded thru the Newark NJ riots of 1967 as a LEO and the experience of being spat upon while doing the job to help and protect was very disheartening..

[JB White]

In reply to many, I don't over react in the face of a police officer. I known too many of them and coached their kids in baseball for many years. The fathers who will step up as assistants are more often than not LEO's. All part of the personality it takes to step forward. (Just an observation on my part)
Many of my neighbors are policemen because they have to live within the city limits as a prerequisite of their jobs. We get along just fine as neighbors. There are some who we think have no business on the streets.

The younger generation of LEO's have a tendancy to 'puff out their chests' as noted. They also like to make every traffic stop a scene as they leap from the Blue and White in black tac gear with guns drawn low. I've seen them handle emotional traffic accident scenes as though they were SS, yelling, shoving and threatening. Controling a situation I can understand, but escalating one is wrong.

There is the time I walked into a suburban gun shop and was confronted by a young Chicago patrolman at the door wanting to know what I was doing there. I was a customer same as he was but he felt I had no place there since I wasn't a LEO.

A new sign went up near my house regarding no left turns for 2 hours during the day. I trusted the clock on my dashboard and made my turn 1 minute after the bracket time had started. Our beat car was watching and flashed his lights. I pulled over immediately and turned on the interior lights so he could see inside the vehicle. I was with my wife and kids. I didn't appreciate two buzz cut cops in black with guns drawn telling us to keep our hands up and for me to pass my DL backwards out the window.
I had a pistol pointed at my head for a 'no left turn' and there was no good reason for his partner to aim a maglight into my daughters eyes at gunpoint. Was I beligerent? No! I like to think I'm intelligent enough to know when not to escalate a situation. Besides, I wasn't given time to be beligerent. We remained "guarded" by his partner as the "nice policeman" wrote the ticket.

My 19 year old son is constantly being stopped for an ID check. Not a problem there as the police are monitoring gang activity. Do they have to rip his wallet apart, fling everything loosely back in his general direction and tell him to 'get on your F*****G way'?

I can write on and on about things such as this which have transpired over the past 15-20 years. Comments regarding there are always some I learned to understand over 50 years ago. However the bad outnumber the good here. This isn't only a personal gripe on my part. My neighbors feel the same way and have been treated the same way. The retired LEO's on my block moved away ASAP because they couldn't stand the majority of the new breed either.

Sorry guys, but Rambo Cop has done nothing to create a positive image in the public eye. I've heard all the stories about why and maybe etc as others try to justify the behavior at the local beat meetings. I have respect for the law, but the CPD in general has done their very best to cause myself and others to disrespect them.
We don't feel protected. We feel oppressed. If it weren't for my wife having such deep roots here, I would have moved away years ago.

[JB White]

"Comments regarding there are always some I learned to understand over 50 years ago."
Should read as "there are always some...",

[Dan Wilson]

Well as for me, I am a little more than a range warrior.
I had 24 years in the military, and seen hostile environments in The first gulf war, the Balkans, Afghanistan so I am pretty sure of being able to take care of me and mine.

I wont argue the swat goosestep squad stuff, all that does is get everybody ****ed off, you have your opinion and I have mine and I'm happy to leave it at that.

Thanks for the reply.

Dan

[Bob Womack]

Not having been there, I have no idea as to the attitudes involved. I respect the LEOs around me merely because it is the thing to do and it typically works, in a purely pragmatic sense. Remember, in order to maintain order itself, we respect the uniform, not the man. My biggest problem is restraining myself from curiously going over and asking the LEO about his mean-looking black weapon.

However, I do have some reticence on a principled level: I would be all for the "camo'd and armed to the teeth in public" thing for LEOs as long as there was reciprocity, allowing the citizens to do the same. Israel has tried it and found it to work marvelously. I'm reminded of a shoot-out attempted by a couple of terroristas in Israel back in the '80s. They entered a large public square, did a quick eyeball recon, and opened up with a couple of full-auto weapons. About twenty bullets later (mostly incoming), one terrorista was dead and the other was seriously injured and no citizens had been killed. They questioned the surviving terrorista in the hospital later, asking, "What were you thinking?" His response was, "How was I to know that the average citizen around here was armed to the teeth." :yikes:

John Lott's research in More Guns Less Crime indicated that your best chance for being accidentally shot was from a LEO. Self-defense reciprocity is a heck of a better solution to our problem than creating self-defense free zones.

Come to think of it, it would probably take care of any attitude problem with young, hot-headed LEOs as well. What was it that Robert Heinlein said? "An armed society is a polite society." :)

Bob

[Marty C]

There are three things that keep jumping out during this topic. FIRST there are those who respect Law Enforcement and understand the job that they are doing even though they wish the attitude would "tone down" some, they understand that the Police have a job to do and overall they do it very well. I would guess that these people come from a very solid family background and their parents impressed upon them the need to respect those in authority ( I did not vote for Obama, but I respect his position as President, my President ).SECOND there are those who disagree with their local Law Enforcement and want to change things and feel they could do a better job. Well, if your young enough go ahead and apply. If your smart enough and have the required college, military background ( my former agency accepted both as equal )and can pass the entrance test you too can be part of the Law Enforcement Community. Then you will have the opportunity to do a better job and change things. If your too old or cannot pass the test then you still can change things by attending town meetings and speaking out agains what you feel is the "gestapo" attitude. Having spend over 21 years as a Police Union President I can tell you that the public opinion speaks loudly, especially to a Police Chief, Sheriff or Elected Official. Now the THIRD thing I have observed in several of these posts is an attitude that borders on hatred of Law Enforcement and Authority in general. I would suspect a very dismal family background and a negative experience with the Police ( you were quilty ) while growing up. These are the same people who point to our founding fathers as free and not willing to accept authority. That could not be further from the truth. Without law there is a total breakdown in society. Without the Police that you seem to despise it would be left up to those with the most firepower to rule over you. Now I know some of you will say "bring it on, I have my guns and I am a good shot I can take care of me and mine". That is a fools bravado. Sure you could defend your home (maybe) against an attacker or two but the odds are against you if there are no Police to respond to your aid and your facing multiple armed attackers. While I respect your service time in a war zone ( been there ) you above anyone else should appreciate the fact that the cavalry is on the way and help is coming. To your point abour Israel. The major difference is simply this, Israel arms civilians and TRAINS them. In a situation such as armed terrorist they are a help not a hinderence. In our Country there would be massive lawsuits if a stray bullet fired by a trained, armed, assisting civilian were to strike an innocent person. Having said that I do fully support the carrying of weapons by civilians. I carry all the time, anywhere in the country and my life is no more valuable than yours. I would only ask that you be as well trained or meet a minimum standard before you carry a weapon. A tool in the hand of an untrained person could do more harm than good.

[PhillipM]

Marty statements like this are what gets people irritated:

"Instead of being so frustrated and perhaps feeling a little inferior..."

You come off as if you are bullying. Maybe Jim isn't frustrated nor inferior. Perhaps like most that have replied here, he is unimpressed by bravado acquired from parachute pants and combat boots. No one doubts that LEO's in general are to be respected and admired for taking a high risk job for low pay and I appreciate their civil service. However many I personally know do not fit the puffed up image you describe. Trying to elevate police to some "here comes the cavalry", or "white knights" on a mission to stamp out injustice wherever it is not the way my local police department works.

These are the statements I have a hard time swallowing based on my life experiences.

(1) "the first ones to run towards the sounds of danger as most everyone else is either screaming or running away for their lives." - Most will wait till the shooting stops and try to catch them days later coming out of their girlfriends house, witness Virginia Tech.

(2) "shoulder weapons and go into harms way so that you can feel safer in an airport or train station" I'd feel safer with my 1911 on my person.

(3) "i would simply reply that the black tactical gear is great, works well and is free," and it is the worst PR disaster LEO has ever done. You don't look like a hero cop, you look like a thug. The masks some wear are over the top.

(4) "Now to the point. Most if not all Special Police Units are far better trained than the "range warrior" who has no idea of what an actual gunfight is all about and has only faced paper or plastic targets." How many of these special police have ever actually been in a gunfight, facing more than paper or plastic targets?

(5) "Law Enforcement is the beauty is that they, the Police, stand ready and willing to come to your aid when you realize your overmatched and the "paper" is shooting back." Again, most I know and know of would wait till the shooting stops.

I do not have a record and I have never been intimidated or hassled by LEO. My local police force is a joke, my rose colored glasses broke years ago after incidents like these:

Seeing an patrol officer in a nightclub not only off his beat, out of his precinct. When questioned he said he could get back real quick if anyone called and in the mean time he was checking out the young girls.

Multiple businesses broken into on a street. Police pass out a little business card with a case number to report it to the insurance company. No investigation.

Patrol officer posted a pic of himself smoking a joint on the hood of his police car. He got fired

Patrol officer went to the next city and pawned his service pistol. He got fired

Asking one, why didn't you bust him for that marijuana instead of just taking his dope? He replied it was too much paperwork and threw the golf ball sized bag on the roof of the building we were standing by.

Watched a Sergeant throw out a cigarette butt during the morning rush two days ago. Way to set an example.

Watching a brawl at the pool hall standing by another sergeant. Hey Bill, are you going to do anything? Nope, I'm off duty and it's not my fight. They made him a Lieutenant!

The fourth police chief in two years resigned yesterday.

Joke on the streets: "There are two LEO's in a patrol car. How do you tell the difference between a deputy sheriff and the police officer?... The police officer is in the back seat."

Specially trained officer showing me the new tactical knife and informing me my Buck 110 folding hunter was inferior because it couldn't be opened with one hand. I enjoyed giving him a one handed demo!

I could go on and on.

I have been to a monthly practice session with some serious operators and as you aptly put, there is a lot to be said for effective training. I was very impressed. I agree with most of what you say, I think you are just a little over zealous patting yourself on the back. I hope if the SHTF your brethren will come to my aid, however I ain't depending on it! Thanks for your service and dedication to your duty. Proverbs 29:23

[RED]

So I guess I will take the leap. Marty is a good example of the LEO that is full of themselves. Just his statement that those black uniforms are free shows you just how little he understands what is happening. Marty... Those duds AIN'T FREE!. Myself and every other law abiding tax paying citizens worked and paid dearly for those "free" clothes.

Personally I cannot even imagine ANY situation where I would call a LEO for any reason much less help. No cop has ever done anything except harass, bully, and do everything in his power to intimidate and humiliate me. I could recite time after time where this has happened starting back in 1956. The latest incident happened just a couple of years ago. I had an accident where I slipped, fell, and broke my back while deer hunting on my own property. There I am with the EMT's trying to start an IV when the game warden showed up and interrupted the process asking to see my deer tag! I could go on for hours... Flame away, I don't give a damn.:bitch:

I am sure there are some really fine folks that go into law enforcement. Unfortunately after a few years they undergo a frontal lobotomy administered anally.

[Marty C]

Like I said, a little bitter? I will address each of your points with consideration and without emotion.

Point 1..If you knew the facts, and by your statement you do not, you would know that the Police did in fact respond to the VA tech shooting as soon as possible. the problem was two-fold, incorrection information provided as to where the shooter was and a "No-Gun" clause on campus. If you recall I stated I support carrying of firearms by qualified person's.

Point 2...You may feel safer with your "1911" but only a fool brings a pistol to a gun fight. I would prefer to call in close air support but since that is not practical then the Police Long Arm Weapons are far superior to your pistol, you know this to be true.


Point 3...Your opinion is just that, your opinion. The BDU Uniform is far more practical than the shirt and tie look. As for mask, I never wore one but in cases of undercover Officers on raids I can see where they have a place.

Point 4...I do not know how many of these Special Police Units have faced an actual gunmen or been in a firefight. I do know that the Units I trained or trained with were trained correctly by those of us who have been there. They were not just expending ammo and perhaps doing incorrect drills over and over. But again, maybe your skills are superior to the average Police Officer, maybe not I do not know.

Point 5...Again an opinion, "most I know and know of would wait until the shooting stops" is clearly an emotional and factless statement. Cowardness in something that I have rarely seen among Police Officers. In fact it is their very nature of confronting an issue that often leads them to rush into danger sometimes without a proper plan. But that is corrected with training, proper training!


The rest of your statements need not be addressed. I do not know where you live or what standards your state places on Police Training. If Police Officers act like idiots then they should be charged like idiots. That goes for all public servants alike. I am sorry if your offended at my comments. I respect your right to disagree, I know I have earned that right and enjoy taking the time to debate. But I will say it again, far too many people who think they can do it better do just that, THINK they can do it better. They never make an attempt at changing anything, they just complain over and over!

For those of you who know this verse Romans 13:4 'For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid for he does not bear the sword in vain for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil." It applies to those charged with keeping Law and Order. I only added this in response to Proverbs 29:23, which actually does not apply to having pride in your country, work, family or branch of service.

[Marty C]

Not to be too picky, but in response to RED, I paid for my own BDU's and most of the tactical gear I wore. I also paid for the work clothes worn by my states road dept, sewerage dept and other hard working employees. Why did I buy my own gear? Very simple answer, I wanted the best and did not want "low bidder" equipment. I hope that clears up the $$ problem. RED, you sound so bitter, that is not a good recipe for a long, happy life. Do not let a poor encounter with perhaps a non-sympathetic game warden spoil your outlook on life. File a complaint and feel better, if he was wrong then you have every right to complain.

[RED]

I'm not bitter about anything just realistic. Should I die today, I would die knowing I had a good productive and have always followed an oath I took many years ago and it goes something like this: "I will not lie, cheat, or steal, nor will I tolerate those who do."

Oh, did I mention that my son (age 45) is a Law Enforcement Officer? He talks a lot like you now. He had his lobotomy about 15 years ago. He shares the same opinion that a lot of you LEO's have that there are three kinds of people, Cops, Bad Guys, and Bad Guys that haven't been caught... yet. He and others like him are on an ego trip and I despise that. I'll tell you the same thing I told the County Sheriff when he was elected. You come to my house and knock on the door and I will invite you in for a cup of coffee. You come here and knock the door down and it will be a different reception.

You are not God no matter how much you rant and rave. Your doo stinks just like everybody else. You are the one that is bitter most likely because not every one bows and scrapes when you come around. :rolleyes:

[Quarks]

Not to be too picky, but in response to RED, I paid for my own BDU's and most of the tactical gear I wore. I also paid for the work clothes worn by my states road dept, sewerage dept and other hard working employees. Why did I buy my own gear? Very simple answer, I wanted the best and did not want "low bidder" equipment. I hope that clears up the $$ problem. RED, you sound so bitter, that is not a good recipe for a long, happy life. Do not let a poor encounter with perhaps a non-sympathetic game warden spoil your outlook on life. File a complaint and feel better, if he was wrong then you have every right to complain.

Marty, this response is exactly what so many of the folks on this thread have been talking about!

As just one example, you say: "...do not let a poor enounter with perhaps a non-sympathetic game warden spoil your outlook on life".

Your response is arrogant & condescending. Rather than just discussing Red's comments, you wax sarcastic. And arrogant & condescending.

And before you jump all over me, check around - I have been with Jouster since it was the Civilian Marksmanship Page at Camp Perry, almost anyone here can tell you that I am a whole-hearted LEO supporter. The good ones, anyway. I respect the uniform & the job & those who do the job, just as I abhor the bad ones (few, fortunately) who do use the badge & the uniform & the gun as an ego trip. And you can't deny that there are a few. Fortunately, as noted, few, but they do exist.

You have made some excellent points throughout this entire thread. But along the way you just couldn't seem to resist getting in a subtle (& sometimes not-so-subtle) dig. It was masterfully done, for the most part, there were a lot of times when the person being insulted may not have even realized you were doing it, but doing so you were.

I appreciate the job you do. It is a dirty, hard, thankless job under the best of circumstances. And to do it right, yes, you do need to have a bit of an attitude at times. But it seems to have become so ingrained in you that you don't know (or maybe just don't care) that you exude The Attitude nearly every time you sit down at the keyboard!

Back it down a little, sir. Whether or not you realize it, you yourself are triggering many of the not-as-respectful-as-you-would-wish responses which you have gotten.

[Marty C]

Thank you for your support of Law Enforcement. I guess I just cannot resist mind games with those who react so angry to an armed Police Presence. To RED, it is a shame to speak of your son in such a manner. As far as knocking down your door? Why would the County Sheriff do such a thing RED? Unless of course you gave him. with a warrant, a reason to do such a thing? But I have an idea that your bark is worse than your bite. I think RED, that given the chance you would come to the aid of an Officer in need in a minute. And for the record, most of if not all of those who have replied even in anger most likely have spent some time focusing on their front sight. So in that regard I would welcome their Trained assistance. Now I guess it would really heat things up and get the anti-cops fired up if I mentioned how much my State pension is?? Not to mention what the govt pays me to train others to respond to violence......Oh well, that is better left unsaid!

[rayg]

I just thought I would relay some of my thoughts on this thread. I am a retired LEO and I can see were some folks may have a strong anti police attitude created probably from some negative contacts with the police. Now unless their contact was of their own doing like breaking the law. I will say that, not all LEOs should be LEOs. Officers with the attitudes that have been referrenced here, if true and not just a general anti police attitude by the writters for what ever their reasons, should not be LEOs or at least should have more training or closer supervision. Most departments attempt to screen out these type of people with many different tests before hiring. But as we all know, tests are not 100%.
2nd, the police management should be responsible for good training, monitoring and if necessary displining officers who have these attitudes. It is not hard to determine if an officers has these traits as it will show up via other officer/supervisor or citizen complaints and should they be delt with.
How having said this, sometimes a officer developes a negative attitude after so many years because he has to deal with negativity every day. The type of negativity that is not necessary found in other occupations such as , listening and responding to citizen complaints all day long, Folks caught violating the law not happy with getting caught, physical altercations with bad guys some times, negative attitudes toward them by a certain segment of the population and of course the lack of understanding by the public of what and why they had to do what they did. Officers tend to vent their fustration and anger as Red mentioned, such as it's us and the bad guys. Realizing of course that this is the envioment they do work in that most citizens don't understand.
In closing, polce officers are the same as the general population as far as personaities and attitudes are concerned. It's hoped that the police administrations can make sure they monitor their officers to reduce those type of attitudes that give their department or law enforcement in general a bad name. The far majority of officers I have come in contact with during my career were good people who did their jobs to the best of their ability, were respectful to people and were the type who bent over backwards to help a citizen in need. Ray

[ntd34]

Well said. Totally agree

[Bill Hollinger]

Fellas, I think we've gone just about as far as we can go with this thread. I really don't think all the ***-for-tat is necessary and only causes issues between the family. And we are all family, the family of gun enthusiast. For those that don't know, I've been involved in law enforcement for close to 20 years now. I've been in the black BDUs doing room entries and building clearing. There is a lot of the LE world that is misunderstood and misinterpreted just like we misunderstand and misinterpret people in the civilian community. For all those that are perhaps less LEO friendly, I don't care what it was that put you in this mindset. The important thing is that we (LEO) do our very best to listen to you, understand you and bring you to our corner because after all, ultimately we are all in this together. The thing I ask is that you try the same.

Ray, thank you for a very good and well thought post. :thup:

So, if we are going to continue the ***-for-tat and the good cop, bad cop posts we can just close the thread and move on to something like Milsurps ;)