Exactly what is wrong with Olympic Arms AR15s?

[BEAR]

For years I have heard that the Oly Arms rifles are garbage. I do know that the early Oly Arms did have some problems but those have since been rectified. So, hopefully, someone can tell me what is wrong with Oly Arms? Please have specifics. I know there are a million opinions out there and I'm sure everyone has a good/bad story to tell about their or a friend's Oly rifle but I need some hard evidence.

I used to have an M1 that kicked out the 8th round (unfired)and clip together unless the clip was loaded exactly like arsenal loaded clips. Does that make all M1s garbage ... no! However, due documented failures and metalurgical problems the early M1903s could face catastrophic receiver failure. Did they all fail... no! But anyone who shoots a low numbered 03 is taking a risk at a catastrophic failure. This is hard evidence and kind of like what I would like to see on the Olympic Arms rifles.
TIA
BEAR

[NuJudge]

I have a 20" Oly 1:9 barrel. I've cussed at it more than any other barrel I have ever shot. It shoots great with 52's but poorly with anything heavier. I've tried them all, up through 75's, fast, slow and intermediate.

If it's any indicator, others will have stories about their other parts.

CDD

[Litt'le Lee]

I have had several and 1 pre-ban ,plus other ar's with their barrel and find nothing wrong with them-several years ago they put out some short chambers,,but their service dept took care of mine at no charge..their stock trigger is better than any I've had-which is Colt(2) Bushmasters(2) DPMS(1)

[High Plaines Doug r]

I have an Oly upper that took me from Marksman to Master in about 5000 rounds. Barrel was toast by that time, but I was still shooting Master scores when I had it rebarreled.
No complaints from me.

[Bill Hollinger]

I have had about 15 SGW (Olympic Arms) ARs and CARs over the last 20 years and I have nothing but great things to say about them. I have two Super-Ultra-Match rifles and two carbines. I will put them up against any AR out there. Up until this last year I could call them up and order just about any part I wanted but they refuse to ship to Kaliforniev any more. That got me mad because I had placed an order in December, got confirmation on the order, an email telling me they were 90 days out on the parts I ordered and then when the 90 days was up I called them only to have them tell me they don't ship to Kaliforniev. I was PI$$ED! They would not honor the order. I can't wait to get the heck out of this state!

[DaveE]

Must not be anything wrong with them. My dealer has been back ordered since before Thanksgiving.

Dave

[jim r]

i read a while back that their barrel was one of the best, a lot of bashing gets started because someone had a problem ( more then likley their fault) but they wouldn't admit it. heck i see more problems with colt and bushmaster then anything else. the oly i owned was one of my best, my brother has it now.

[heckinohio]

I once had FA Olympic gun w/all walnut furniture. Neato serial # was 10101........ worked fine for me & Dr. I sold it to. His wife scared the pants off several trespassers with it one time.......they didnt need a reminder!!! PJH

[Bob Womack]

For years they were primarily chambering for .223 Remington and carefully warned you not to use 5.56 NATO in the rifle or lacquered ammo because their tight chambers were designed to increase accuracy, couldn't handle the larger rounds, and would collect paint and foul badly. Apparently people still tried NATO and still tried Wolf-type ammo and ended up with all kinds o' trouble. Could that be some of what you heard?

Bob

[Bill Hollinger]

I've shot both commercial and surplus ammo from all mine and had zero problems. Of all the ammo I've shot it did hate two; Winchester 55gr FMJ and Remington 40gr BTHP. Remington 55gr is great in it but the 40gr is all over the place. The Winchester just leaves the action filthy dirty and fowls everything in the gun. When cleaned it is fine but if you go and shoot 300 or 400 rounds it gets really nasty.

The Olympic Arms S.U.M. barrels are some of the best made.

[BEAR]

Thanks for all your replies ... personal choice seems to be the answer.
BEAR

[lyman1903]

I've little experience with Oly marked rifles, only handled a few

but I've built several dozen back when they were marked SGW,
great recievers, never had an issue,

they were one of the first to make good heavy barrels too,
I shot out a SGW stainless, and was lucky enough to have a spare tucked away,

it's on my short course gun now, very accurate, with both 52's and 69's

[AKA Hugh Uno]

[QUOTE= because their tight chambers were designed to increase accuracy, couldn't handle the larger rounds,

Bob[/QUOTE]

Bob, the .223 and the 5.56 are dimensionally EXACTLY the same (and usually far more close ballistically than SAAMI specs--a whole different pee-pee contest entiterly). I don't know what reamer Olympic Arms used, but I doubt they actually used a SAAMI spec .223 (cause if they did, they would have been maybe the first@! AR maker in history to do so. Frankly, I had never heard anything negative about Oly Arms. You may want to do a search at AR15.Com (www.ar15.com) as that really is ground zero for people who live and breath this stuff.

http://i227.photobucket.com/albums/dd7/rkba2da/rifle%20pics/AR-15/556-223chambercomparison.gif

[Col. Colt]

Hugo,
Look at the diagram you just posted! The Chambers are the same. The two throats where the bullet meets the rifling are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT! The shorter .223 throat is exactly what creates the chamber overpressure problem and blows/pierces primers when a military "long throat" load is fired in it! The difference in the barrel throats is important to safety.

As for Oly having problems, like all the clones, they don't make (or inspect) their parts to the same level Quality Control level as FN and Colt do. They aren't required to use the same processes and materials as the military suppliers - and since it costs more to do so, they don't. Does that matter? Not for most users. Most Oly users are quite happy with their rifles. As with everything, Your Mileage May Vary. Respectfully, CC.

[Litt'le Lee]

This was on TV awhile back and the groups shown shot on their test fires
OUT OF A VISE were about 4 or 5 inches,,if I ever bought a Oly barrel that shot that bad I'd send it back,,Oly barrels WILL SHOOT,,and yes the barrels on the earlier Oly's were 223,,now they use 5.56....

[AKA Hugh Uno]

Hugo,
Look at the diagram you just posted! The Chambers are the same. The two throats where the bullet meets the rifling are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT! The shorter .223 throat is exactly what creates the chamber overpressure problem and blows/pierces primers when a military "long throat" load is fired in it! The difference in the barrel throats is important to safety.

CC.

Sorry you got confused. I clearly said that the rounds were DIMENSIONALLY the same.

I also said that essentially NO MANUFATURER of AR15's has EVER commonly used a SAAMI spec. chamber (it would be silly to do so). Most use something like the Wylde or other "hybrid" reamer. Personally, I have shot gazillions of military rounds through ARs (and vice versa in M4's, albeit it was mainly 52 grain stuff given to us by XXXXX (a well-known big city tactical unit).

Also, I guess the BUSHMASTER snake marked M4s we carried around for awhile back in the 90's were made by Colt!

As for quality control.

***********

Army Drops Colt as M16 Rifle Maker
AP NEW YORK TIMES
Published: Monday, October 3, 1988

The Army has dropped Colt Industries Inc. as the manufacturer of America's standard infantry weapon, the M16 rifle, according to a published report. The move could affect employment at strike-plagued Colt plants in Connecticut.>>>>>>

But union leaders said the Army's decision had stemmed at least in part from quality problems with Colt-built M16's even before the United Auto Workers, Local 376, struck the weapons-making division in January 1986. The 1,300-employee Firearms Division has been operating with replacement workers. About 800 U.A.W. members remain on strike.

''We would rather see Colt out of business than have a factory full of scabs,'' Philip Wheeler, a top regional union official, said Friday. Replacement Workers Criticized

''This results from the strike, the use of replacement workers and the quality problems we brought up before and during the strike,'' he said.

[Col. Colt]

OK, let's hear from anyone who was issued a Bushmaster rifle of any kind while in the Service. (Not just "I think" answers.) Place, timeframe, just you, your whole unit, etc. To the best of my knowledge, Bushmaster has NEVER had a US Military weapon contract. The Technical Data Package is pretty demanding on how you make each part, due Quality Control, etc. Colt, Hydramtic-GM (Vietnam) and FN are the only US Military suppliers I have ever heard of. Enlighten me with Facts, please. CC.

[Litt'le Lee]

SUB-CONTRACT'S-being a ex mil contractor and conversing around you realize that most primary contracts are subbed out on some items

[Homer03]

Bushmaster M4 (http://www.cybershooters.org/dgca/bushmaster_m4.htm)

[lyman1903]

This was on TV awhile back and the groups shown shot on their test fires
OUT OF A VISE were about 4 or 5 inches,,if I ever bought a Oly barrel that shot that bad I'd send it back,,Oly barrels WILL SHOOT,,and yes the barrels on the earlier Oly's were 223,,now they use 5.56....

both barrels I have, and the many I installed (mid 80's) were all marked 5.56, Stainless barrels were usually marked SS under that, both marks in front of the FSB,

[DaveHH]

The receiver is machined out of an aluminum billet, no cast, no forge. It works great and is dead reliable. I put a RRA trigger in it and it shoots very well.

[BottleBaby]

Most of it boils down to parts inspection. That's why you here so many points of view - one guy got a good one that lasts, another guy may not have gotten so lucky.

But parts quality and assembly quality figure in there, depending upon what specific model you are talking about.

This compares carbines - http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&hl=en

[DaveHH]

they specifically say that their barrels are marked 5.56 but are CHAMBERED for .223. I have a 1/9 heavy barrel that is unmarked except for "5.56" from their website I found that it is 4140 steel chambered for .223.

[Bob Womack]

After this came up, it aroused my interest so I called them and waited through the on-hold thing. Their customer service rep said that all button-rifled barrels are 5.56. Mine is button-rifled.

Bob

[ralfus]

The only issue that I had with Olympics/SGW was the tight magwells. One was from 1990 and 3 from 2001. Mags that fit in other brand rifles would be a tight/non-drop free fit in the Olympics. This was with both Aluminum 30's and Orlite mags.

[texfed]

I have an AR, which I built some time ago using an Olympic receiver. Now the rifle is 100% early milsurp M16A1 with the exception of the trigger group. With this in mind..all the other components are Colt early military. I wanted a semi auto that looked exactly like the M16A1 I carried in '71.

The rifle ticks along like a dream and groups with the best of em....it has a Colt chrome lined military 'pencil' barrel.

With all this said....the receiver performs just as well as a Colt would.

[mercman]

I've built nine rilfles on Oly/SGW receivers and have never had any problems. The only Oly gun that I ever had problems with was a 9mm CAR that jammed frequently. I live fairly close to SGW so drove down there and the shop guys took care of the problem for me by grinding some clearance on the hammer surface. It worked fine after that but I ended up trading it off later.

[zertouche]

Two OLY/SGW lowers here. Not a single problem, not a single gripe. Pins are still tight and solid with zero issues after many thousands of rounds. A couple of bright spots where their semi gloss black coating was scuffed off but that is so minor, I have a hard time mentioning it.

Believe me, I have seriously abused them both. I am on my third upper between the two. One of which has an old A1 GI chrome lined pencil tube that puches black all day. I wish I had bought a dozen of them.

[Wolley]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2656/3855000594_634dc1c97d.jpg



http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2518/3854211393_b0416f7c68.jpg

Nothing is wrong with the Oly.
K8 Target Match
220yds!!
The first group has a weird flyer below the three. Trigger slipped.
Who says ya can't shoot 77s from a 1:9 twist barrel?

[Victor Six Bravo]

The problem is consistency. I've shot a couple Olys that shot good, about as well as any other maker. And I've shot some that were craptacular and would not keep the rounds anywhere in close association with each other (6" or better groups) off a rest.

They are probably much better now than six or seven years ago, but I still would not use an Oly without severe testing for anything more than plinking/varmint rifle. Not if my life depended on it.

[milprileb]

With the prices down and availability of AR up these days, it costs no more to buy a high quality AR. Oly has been a problematic maker all along for over 20 years to my direct knowledge. At the cost of a Smith & Wesson or Rock River or other quality maker.....why save 50 bucks and get a Oly.

Yes, there are exceptions : a few Oly shoot good and may have been made right. Ya wanna bet the farm on your luck to get one of these with the record OLY has set?

Buy the best AR you can afford.

THere is a reason some AR are far cheaper than others. There are short cuts done in manufacture and that accounts to why they sell cheaper.

In sum: the answer to the problem with Oly is Quality Control.

[DaveHH]

also how an AR is assembled can have a huge impact on accuracy. Simply unscrewing the barrel and remounting/torquing it can move the POI all over the map. I've got extractors that were bought 20 years ago, brand new and they won't even fit a Colt military bolt, let alone work. I just bought a new AR 15 carrier and bolt from armalite about a year ago and it (the bolt) won't even chamber in an Army 1-12 chrome barrel. They are a great design but never forget that they are just a bunch of crap held together with roll pins. The fact that they work as good as they do and shoot so well is more a reflection of the caliber and design than any inherent quality of the combined parts. That said, I love my RR trigger, and proper assembly can really make or break the rifle.