Garand Picture of the day - Albert Blithe 101st 82nd

[Mark in Rochester]

He was featured in the Stephen Ambrose book and subsequent HBO mini-series Band of Brothers as one of the Easy Company paratroopers featured in the third episode "Carentan".Both the book and the mini-series indicate, in error, that he did not survive his war wounds, and overlook his many years of further military service with paratrooper regiments.

1) Blithe at Camp Toccoa
2) Blithe Bullet from shoulder wound
3) 1958 trooper of the year


More here
http://www.506infantry.org/his2ndbnwwiiphoto24.html

[Dan Shapiro]

Very interesting! Turns out that I was stationed at a unit about 200 miles at the time of his death.

[Tom Doniphon]

How could Ambrose and the Band of Brothers mini-series have gotten Blithe's fate so wrong?

[Bob Womack]

The series used Ambrose's work as their historical reference and he went right to the horses mouths for much of his history. He was wounded and never came back to the unit so you know how rumor flies. Of course, the series took a little license in some of the cases but I think this was simply a mistake.

Bob

[Mark in Rochester]

The series used Ambrose's work as their historical reference and he went right to the horses mouths for much of his history. He was wounded and never came back to the unit so you know how rumor flies. Of course, the series took a little license in some of the cases but I think this was simply a mistake.

Bob

According to Blithe's sworn affidavit signed by the court officer he jumped in Holland (Sept 1944) - the trouble with getting history from the movies is that it is not always true. Like any historian Ambrose is subject to minor errors

[Milsurp Collector]

How could Ambrose and the Band of Brothers mini-series have gotten Blithe's fate so wrong?The series used Ambrose's work as their historical reference and he went right to the horses mouths for much of his history. He was wounded and never came back to the unit so you know how rumor flies. Of course, the series took a little license in some of the cases but I think this was simply a mistake.

Bob

Talk about getting someone's fate wrong: the Band of Brothers miniseries showed Lt. Norman D y k e lying dead after the attack on Foy. Not only did he survive the attack, he was promoted and served as an aide to General Maxwell Taylor, the CO of the 101st Abn.

[Tom Doniphon]

"He was wounded and never came back to the unit so you know how rumor flies"

That's all the more reason to do proper research and not rely on someone's speculation. IIRC, Ambrose states in his book that Blithe did live for a short time after the War but eventually died from his injuries. Obviously not the case.

I'll be the first to say that I really like Ambrose's books. But, someone really messed up and didn't do their homework on this fact.

[Sully]

Talk about getting someone's fate wrong: the Band of Brothers miniseries showed Lt. Norman D y k e lying dead after the attack on Foy. Not only did he survive the attack, he was promoted and served as an aide to General Maxwell Taylor, the CO of the 101st Abn.

Milsurp,

I've watched BoB, perhaps too many times...even my wife can name all the players! Never saw Dike lying dead, but I do see new things when I watch each time. Could you describe that scene?

I'd heard that Ambrose was a little loose on details at times. It is very interesting to have read all the biographies put out by the different people represented in BoB such as Compton, Malarky, Winters, etc. Get the low down on the specific instances and each through those particular eyes...and adds to the movie when you see it...again.


Thanks,

Sully

[Milsurp Collector]

Milsurp,

I've watched BoB, perhaps too many times...even my wife can name all the players! Never saw Dike lying dead, but I do see new things when I watch each time. Could you describe that scene?


In Part 7, The Breaking Point, at the 1hr1min35sec mark:

http://i42.tinypic.com/xlgduw.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/2wofzhe.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/2uy10nn.jpg
http://i44.tinypic.com/2ur9rbl.jpg

At the 1hr2min4sec mark there is this bit of dialog:

http://i43.tinypic.com/52kfft.jpg

PICANTE
Hey sarge...

LIPTON
Yeah

PICANTE
Is it true about Dike?

LIPTON
Yeah

PICANTE
Thank God for small mercies, huh.

LIPTON
Yeah

At the 1hr5min5sec mark there is this dialog:

http://i40.tinypic.com/e69cba.jpg


LIPTON (V.O.)
Our month in Belgium cost us one good officer, Buck Compton, and one bad one, Norman Dike

[edpm3]

Small world. MSG Blithe's battalion commander in 1967 was my DISCOM commander seven years later.

[paul1440]

Milsurp,

That isn't Dike laying on the ground but a Pvt. Webb. If you watch prior to those scenes someone runs up to Webb and says something like "Let's go, Webb" and then they grab his shoulder but he is already dead.

The dialog "Our month in Belgium cost us one good officer, Buck Compton, and one bad one, Norman Dike" means they lost Dike in a good way up to Division. That also explains the small mercies line. Dike got relieved of command by Maj. Winters.

I concur with what has been said about Blithe. Pretty poor to let that error go uncorrected, twice. But like others have said Amrbose while excellent at bringing history to the mainstream public was not so good at proof-reading his own work or double-checking facts. Mark Bando, arguably the most knowledgeable person on the 101st ABN in WW2, is much less kind in his views of Mr. Ambrose and his apparent inability to get the facts right. Read these pages from Bando's web site: Band of Brothers (http://www.101airborneww2.com/bandofbrothers.html) There was alot that isn't factually correct in BoB and wouldn't have been so hard to get right.

[Milsurp Collector]

Milsurp,

That isn't Dike laying on the ground but a Pvt. Webb. If you watch prior to those scenes someone runs up to Webb and says something like "Let's go, Webb" and then they grab his shoulder but he is already dead.



Yup, you're right! Thanks for the correction!

[Mark in Rochester]

Hey how do you get the stills off of BOB - **** was behind the haystack in the movie IIRC -at the cart sgt Martin says come on kid lets go and the soldier fall dead from behind the cart - my impression was that he was with the group that was going around and attack from the flank - he does look similar to **** - there is supposed to be a scene in the background in the last eposide where **** shows up

[M1 Rifleman]

The "Breaking Point" photograph is of a "dead" enlisted man. Dike (****) was an officer and therefore wore a Pistol Belt. If you look at the photograph, you can clearly see the M1923 Cartridge Belt, with suspenders and Carlisle Bandage carrier. **** would have worn a M1912 Pistol Belt which did not have the cartridge belt pockets. That photo could not have been ****.

Ambrose did a great service to us by bringing History to the forfront. How many had heard of, or would have heard of Ambrose prior to the series. Sadly, not many people. The stories we rever today would have slipped into obscurity and no one would have heard of Winters, Malarkey, or Powers, not to mention the millions who we now cherish. Only their families would possibly have known of their exploits, and maybe few of them. Ambrose also gave us the courage to talk to our family members who served in WW2, and got them to talk about their experiences. How many other Historians can hold that honor? Not many...

Ambrose, who was a college professor, more than likely had "ghost writers" do the research and "write" his books. College kids, always hard up for cash, would have "jumped at the chance" to work with him to earn a few bucks for beer. Some of these "ghost writers" probably didn't do very good research (some were better than others) and Ambrose probably didn't check their work as closely as he should of. That might explain why some of the research is faulty. The college kids Ambrose hired either didn't check closely enough or just did enough to get by.

If you're interested in seeing how Ambrose looked back in the 1970s, check out the old World at War series, done by the British Thames Production company. He was featured in some of the latter episodes of the series.

All in all, Ambrose works, BoB and Saving Private Ryan are still considered gems.

[Tom Doniphon]

Ambrose did not write Saving Private Ryan.

[paul1440]

Dave,

I agree that the real value of Mr. Ambrose's works is that it as you say, brought these stories to the forefront of people's minds. I have to admit to becoming interested into a family member's service in WW2 after becoming aware of BoB.

The person in my avatar is Staff Sergeant Francis Lazorick, D Company 175th Infantry. He was KIA on Hill 108 aka Purple Heart Hill on 18 June 1944. I wish I had tried to learn more about him 10-15 years ago rather than 2 years ago.

[Art]

In any study of history it's important to read several accounts by different authors hopefully on different sides of the event one is studying. No writer is perfect and even the best make mistakes and have, to some extent, their views colored by predjudices. This is true even of the most objective, especially when it comes to the interpretation of character.

As to Ambrose. He wrote some very good books but throughout his career he was criticised for sloppy research, and in some cases plagerism. Some of these instances were well founded.

His work is very valuable though, even though it is, like all human endeavors, flawed.

[TDH]

The dead soldier was a private , a replacement, **** was replaced by Speers during the attack on Foy after her had what appeared to be a nervous breakdown. In the narration at the end of the segment it was said that it "cost them one good officer, Buck Compton and one bad one Norman ****."They did not say what happened to "Foxhole Norman" only insinuated that he was no longer with Easy

[TDH]

One other thing --- as good as BoB is is is still Hollywood and they are notorious for "artistic licence.
"How did they do that? It's impossible."
"Easy it's in the script."

When injustice becomes law
rebellion becomes duty
Thomas Paine

[George Sr.]

In the book they sure said it.He was an aid to General Maxwell Taylor.He was sent to a front line infantry to get his ticket punched,and then returned to being an aid for Taylor. Also in the book General Taylor did not seem to be highly regarded by the men.After the battle he stated it wasn't so bad everone was inside houses??(He was at home on leave during the battle).

[Mauserdon]

I may be wrong, but I believe the verbal exchange between Picante and Lipton and Liptons voice-over was about Speirs relieving Dike of his command.