Military Surplus Collectors Forums - The Ross Rifle Knowledge Library Collectors Forum http://www.milsurps.com/ Forum for discussion by serious collectors of Ross rifles, accessories, ammunition, and accoutrements en Fri, 03 Sep 2010 04:12:06 GMT vBulletin 60 http://www.milsurps.com/images/tacticalgamer/misc/rss.png Military Surplus Collectors Forums - The Ross Rifle Knowledge Library Collectors Forum http://www.milsurps.com/ Ross sight http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=24426&goto=newpost Sun, 22 Aug 2010 20:21:28 GMT Hi Guys: Is there anyone who can point me in the right direction? I would like to buy a Ross rear sight. Thanks Hi Guys:

Is there anyone who can point me in the right direction? I would like to buy a Ross rear sight.

Thanks ]]> The Ross Rifle Knowledge Library Collectors Forum Big Idiot http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=24426 Rare 1915 Ross MKIII sniper rifle http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=24221&goto=newpost Fri, 13 Aug 2010 13:23:40 GMT *** August 2010 Purchases **** thread in the * Copied from the *** August 2010 Purchases *** thread in the Member's Showcase Forum.

With many thanks to claven2, we were able to locate from an estate sale, a very rare piece of Canadian history with an ""all correct" and in superb condition, "all matching" 1915 Ross MKIII sniper rifle serial #223 complete with its matching Warner and Swasey scope No. 18, 1913 patent. The stock is also stamped "SCOPE NO 18" and the scope base on the rifle is also stamped "18". The original tooled leather case for the scope is C-Broad Arrowed marked and stamped with both the scope serial number (18) and the rifle number (223).

This sniper rifle is from the first 250 batch ordered by the Canadian Government and being "SCOPE NO 18", it would have been very early in the production run of these rare rifles, with not very many surviving all these years.

We've taken a few temporary pics, however, in the next month or so, we'll create a highly detailed and more complete photo montage showing all the markings etc., for inclusion within the Canada section of the main Knowledge Library.

Some pics of Canadian snipers in WW1 equipped with their Ross MkIII c/w Warner & Swasey telescopic sights.

Attachment 14910 ----- Attachment 14911

Regards,
Badger
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]]> The Ross Rifle Knowledge Library Collectors Forum Badger http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=24221 Royal Marine Ross rifles Part II http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=22855&goto=newpost Tue, 06 Jul 2010 03:49:02 GMT Thank you for your enquiry regarding the Royal Marines and Ross Rifles – I’ve also had a quick look at the posts on-line too. From our own sources at the Museum I can tell you the following:

Ross rifles were issued later in the First World War, to those Royal Marines who were not serving with expeditionary forces. They were also used at RM Deal and at Infantry Training Centre Royal Marines (ITCRM) for recruit training in the late 1940s (notes from S M Othen, late SASRM).

This is based on information from volume 3 of the Royal Marines history and some notes left by someone who worked at the Small Arms School Royal Marines in the late 1940s. I am working on the assumption that those Rifles used by the Royal Marines were not the same ones issued during the First World War. Alas we have no detailed numbers of these weapons in our archive here.

I’m interested in the PLY numbers. Initially they look like Royal Marine Light Infantry Plymouth Division Service Numbers; however they are in too early a sequence, and in any event the numbers have to be rack numbers. What is interesting is that during the First World War the Royal Marines were administered through Port Divisions, with prefixes of PLY, PO (Portsmouth), CH (Chatham) and RMA (Royal Marine Artillery). There were also large numbers of men enlisted administered from Deal, whose service numbers started ‘DEAL …..’ Of course my question now is whether there are Rifles with these prefixes ? Was it just the Armourer at Plymouth who was marking with Plymouth rack numbers ? Or do the others exist but are not yet recognised ?

I’ve also been passed the following, much more useful, information from Tony Edwards of the HBSA (all of the attachments are his too):

The RN/RM gave up their Lee Enfields in November 1914 on Churchill’s orders to release weapons for the army. They were replaced in RN/RM service with Japanese Arisakas until mid 1916 when these were sent to Russia and the RN/RM received Ross rifles in their stead.

Great Britain had placed a contract with Ross for 100,000 rifles in late 1914 but they were late being delivered and there was much argument between the factory and British inspectors and eventually the contract was cancelled after about 66,000 had been delivered. These were the Mark IIIB (for British) version of the Canadian Mark III service rifle (the Model 1910 in Ross terminology) and differed in sights and stock details. At the same time GB received about 90,000 Canadian Mark III rifles from the Canadian Expeditionary Force who swapped them for Lee-Enfields after the Ross failed in the trenches. These seem to have got mixed up with the British contract rifles and been issued to armed trawlers, minesweepers etc.

In 1940 the Home Guard were issued with Ross rifles, mainly it seems the Canadian Mark IIIs, as were the RM and some army units for training.

I have also attached an excerpt that I found from 'Technical Problems Dealt with by Admiralty Departments' and a report of Home Guard weapon holdings dated April 1942.

There is a final Museum adjunct to this story. We have only one example of a Ross Rifle, not a Royal Marines issue one. It is marked on the stock ‘F G H A 105’. I’m taking this to mean Fort Garry Horse. If this is right would anyone be up for a swop ?
. ]]> The Ross Rifle Knowledge Library Collectors Forum buffdog http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=22855 Royal Marine Ross and others Part I http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=22853&goto=newpost Tue, 06 Jul 2010 03:44:46 GMT This is an attachment sent to me this morning by the Royal Marine Museum in Great Britain. What is interesting is the numbers of Ross Rifles... This is an attachment sent to me this morning by the Royal Marine Museum in Great Britain. What is interesting is the numbers of Ross Rifles obtained, and also the various other types and calibres of rifles issued. The Quartermaster must have had some sleepless nights just thinking of the variety of ammunition that needed to be stocked.

Some suppositions as to rifle types has to be made here. My ideas may not be the correct ones, but knowing the time period (WWI) I would suggest the following types for the "unknowns". The rest of the types are well known.

Winchester .44 Carbine.-----the 1892 lever action (was in production at the time)
7 mm. Rifle single shot -------the Remington 1902 rolling block (was in production for Mexico, and South America)
Remington .44.------------------the Remington Model 14 1/2 pump action .44 was in production at the time.
Mauser 9 mm Carbine--------- ? ? ? ? ? ?

While this started out with a Ross rifle inquiry a week ago, we now have some valuable OFFICIAL information as to Royal Marine small arms, and armaments of other types issued to smaller craft of the Royal Navy. Also, an accurate inventory of the Home Guard in 1942.

Unfortunately serial numbers or blocks of serial numbers are not available at this time.

A special thanks to Ian Maine of the Royal Marine Museum in Great Britain, for his time, effort, and assistance in answering my e-mails and questions.




================================================== ============================================

Extracts from
History of Technical Problems dealt with by Admiralty Departments
Volume 4 Small Arms and Machine Guns

On the outbreak of war, the War Office made urgent demands on the Admiralty for rifles to meet the need of the rapidly expanding army. Seaman's rifles carried in ships were consequently turned over, the number retained being 40 in capital ships and half the original proportion in smaller ships. The full establishment of Marines rifles were retained by the Admiralty. As soon as the exchange could be effected all service rifles in ships in home waters were replaced by Japanese rifles, the later again being withdrawn if favor of Ross rifles. In addition to War Office demands, a large number of rifles were needed for the equipment of the R.M. Division and the RM Corps as the later expanded for service ashore, as well as service on board the ships. Also the armed merchant ,ruisers and auxillary craft of many descriptions.

Japanese Arisaka .256-inch. 20,000 were issued to the Fleet throughout 1915 to replace the service weapons. These in turn were replaced in 1917 by the Ross .303-inch. 45,000 which the military considered were too delicate for service in the field were supplied to service ships commencing in 1917.

Mauser 9mm carbine. 850 were obtained in September 1914, originally been intended for Brazilian and Chilean warships.

Winchester .44 carbine. 20,000 obtained from the USA, 1,000 from Lord Nunburnholme in February 1915. Supplied to TBSs and miscellaneous craft, later replaced by Ross.

7 mm. Rifle single shot. 4,000 of this type were obtained in May 1915 from the USA, issued for minesweeping purposes, but subsequently withdrawn on account of defects.

Remington .44. 4,000 obtained from the USA in April 1915 issued to miscellaneous craft.

.303-inch Martini-Enfield rifles. 2,000 were obtained from the trade in February 1915 and issued to trawlers.

.303-inch Martini-Enfield carbines. 500 bought from the trade in April 1915, issued to trawlers and miscellaneous craft.

.45-inch Martini-Henry. 500 obtained from the trade in April 1915, issued to trawlers.

.303-inch L. E. Sporting Rifles. 970 bought from the trade in March 1915, issued to miscellaneous craft. [Commercial BSA and LSA patterns]


Home Guard Holdings - April 1942

.300 (Patt. 17) 810,035
.300 EY 29,217
.303 No.1 (SMLE) 4,233
.303 No.3 (Patt. 14) 2,410
.303 Ross 19,756
.22 all types 17,334
'other' 748

================================================== =================================================
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]]> The Ross Rifle Knowledge Library Collectors Forum buffdog http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=22853 Fantastic Book for Ross Collectors! http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=22768&goto=newpost Sun, 04 Jul 2010 10:44:40 GMT This may not belong here, in which case I am certain that Badger or one of the Moderators will have it moved to where it is more appropriate. In... This may not belong here, in which case I am certain that Badger or one of the Moderators will have it moved to where it is more appropriate.

In the Excited States, our usually-friendly neighbour to the South, there is a fellow named Lindsay who is almost as demented as some of us. He reprints ancient, old, and unusual books for the folks who want to build Tesla Turbines, miniature (and full-sized) Steam Locomotives, Wet-plate Cameras and other fun things. This time, Lindsay has outdone even himself.

Lindsay Publications (lindsaybks.com) has brought out two small books, Digest-sized, paperbound, high-quality paper and good printing, Perfect-bound, rather lavishly illustrated and very much in our line. One is called "Barrel-making" and details precisely how SMLE barrels were made at Enfield just prior to the outbreak of the Great War. That little book is about $9.

The OTHER book is enough to induce heart failure in most of the readers of this Forum. It is called "Rifles & Knives" and it actually has 5-1/4 pages on the commercial manufacture of switchblade knives. The entire little book, all 64 pages, is a reprint from MACHINERY MAGAZINE, a more-industrial version of 'Scientific American' which was popular a century ago for very good reason.

The remainder of the book, a mere 59 pages out of 64, is devoted to a photographically-illustrated TOUR of the Ross Rifle Company FACTORY as it was about the middle of 1911, near the conclusion of production of the Mark II rifle. The long article appeared originally as a 4-part serial beginning in the October, 1911 issue of the magazine. There are photographs, drawings, schematics and descriptions of every phase of the manufacture of the late Mark II rifle. Most of this material has not been available during the lifetimes of the people on this forum.

The book sells from Lindsay for under $10 Canadian or you can order it through your bookseller by asking for ISBN 1-55918-344-6.

This book is very much WORTH its price. ]]> The Ross Rifle Knowledge Library Collectors Forum smellie http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=22768 Ross PLY markings http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=22500&goto=newpost Mon, 28 Jun 2010 05:02:29 GMT Has anyone deciphered the PLY markings on Ross M-10 rifles. I have seen or referenced at least 14 different Ross M-10s with PLY markings and... Has anyone deciphered the PLY markings on Ross M-10 rifles. I have seen or referenced at least 14 different Ross M-10s with PLY markings and different numbers stamped on them. I really don't think it stands for something like "Pakastani Light Yeomanry", but with so many rifles stamped with those numbers, it is a bit of a puzzle.

These are found on the Barrel, near the receiver ring.

There are also Ross M-10 rifles with PHAB stamped on them.

Can anyone solve this little mystery?

ADDENDUM: O.K., O.K. We are NOT talking about Ross M-10 Sporters here, We are talking about M-10 Military Ross .303 British Calibre rifles with the typical military markings on them that were apparently converted to a Sporter somewhere along the way. In addition, the ones I have seen have a "Not English Made" stamp and British proof marks. So far, the top number is PLY 6009, so if the series was started at 1000, then there had to be at least 5000 rifles that were converted.

Thank you for attempting to add to my education. While my first love is the SMLE and Lee Enfield rifles, at several times during my 69 years of age, I have had, bought, sold, and fired several Ross rifles, including M-10 Sporters in .280 Ross, M-10 Military Ross rifles, 1905 Ross rifles, and .22 Ross rifles. While you never stop learning, I have NOW learned that I should have specified Ross M-10 MILITARY converted sporter in my post, to avoid the nit-pickers!
. ]]> The Ross Rifle Knowledge Library Collectors Forum buffdog http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=22500 Chilean Navy? http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=22158&goto=newpost Sun, 13 Jun 2010 19:15:23 GMT This rifle and bayonet were imported from Canada in 1973. I have more recently been told that their markings indicate issue in the Chilean Navy. Can... This rifle and bayonet were imported from Canada in 1973. I have more recently been told that their markings indicate issue in the Chilean Navy. Can anybody confirm this?
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]]> The Ross Rifle Knowledge Library Collectors Forum Terrylee http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=22158 Front sight hood? http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=22031&goto=newpost Tue, 08 Jun 2010 15:37:18 GMT Alright, where is the definitive answer for the orientation of the front sight hood???

I've read some of the normal books, as well as some of the manufacturer correspondence. Been to the Citadel museum in Quebec City, the National War Museum in Ottawa, the Museum of the Regiments in Calgary, Fort Henry in Kingston, Talked with a few curators, etc, etc, etc...... all pretty good authorities.. I've got a couple pics of a PPCLI rifle in the PPCLI museum and a couple others to post later.

I've only seen ONE book that indicates the hood should be oriented with the flat side towards shooter. Everything else indicates the bevel should match the sight base, ie. with the slant following the base towards the shooter, and the flat side towards the muzzle.

I just can't imagine why they would purposely mount the sight hood opposite to the angle of the sight base????

I do a fair share of shooting as well, and no one is going to be able to say that having the sight hood either way is going to guarantee a better sight picture, and therefore make the shooter/rifle more precise.

Guess I'm just looking for reason to mount the sight hood goofy or leave it so it looks reasonable. ]]> The Ross Rifle Knowledge Library Collectors Forum koldt http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=22031 First post w/first Ross (US) http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=22017&goto=newpost Mon, 07 Jun 2010 19:20:13 GMT Picked this up at auction a few years ago. It was love at first sight. Image: http://kze7896.talkingrelics.com/images/IMG_0382.jpg Image:... Picked this up at auction a few years ago. It was love at first sight.




]]> The Ross Rifle Knowledge Library Collectors Forum Theoxrojo http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=22017 Unused Ross MkIII stock http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=21782&goto=newpost Wed, 26 May 2010 19:16:31 GMT Do the forumers agree that the stock looks unused and has never had an action fitted? Only markings on it are on the inletting just forward of the... Do the forumers agree that the stock looks unused and has never had an action fitted? Only markings on it are on the inletting just forward of the mag well - where the number 77 is stamped.
I spotted it amongst a pile of P14 stocks.
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]]> The Ross Rifle Knowledge Library Collectors Forum Nigel http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=21782 US Property Ross Rifle http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=21155&goto=newpost Sun, 25 Apr 2010 23:49:44 GMT Thought I'd share a few pics of my Ross Mk III rifle. There seems to be a resurgence of interest in these classics lately. I've fired this one and found it to be a pleasant rifle to fire, but not terribly accurate. This is a US Property rifle and wears a M1917 sling and has a US property bayonet and scabbard with it.






Album link: Image hosting, free photo sharing video sharing at Photobucket ]]> The Ross Rifle Knowledge Library Collectors Forum kollector03 http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=21155 Ross parts http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=20770&goto=newpost Fri, 09 Apr 2010 21:26:51 GMT Just for info purposes - Visited Ellwood Epps a couple of weeks ago and noticed that they have a not too bad selection of parts for Ross rifles.... Just for info purposes -
Visited Ellwood Epps a couple of weeks ago and noticed that they have a not too bad selection of parts for Ross rifles. Always worth the call to see if they can help. ]]> The Ross Rifle Knowledge Library Collectors Forum 37patt http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=20770 Ross Rifle, 1916, M-10, S/N781? http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=20762&goto=newpost Fri, 09 Apr 2010 11:26:06 GMT Howdy! First time on site. Great info here and decided that I wanted to be a member. I have come into the possession of a Ross Rifle, 1916, M-10,... Howdy!

First time on site. Great info here and decided that I wanted to be a member.
I have come into the possession of a Ross Rifle, 1916, M-10, S/N781 (Z stamped underneth S/N on stock foregrip) 30.5" barrel, machined forging nosecap w/t bayonet lug, Quebec cartouge stamp on stock and III. and 93/1916 and KT stamps left to right toward trigger guard area, O E stamped on barrel, NRA good, original finish, have fired three .303 British military rounds through it and want to know if it has collector value before I ruin it by putting a sidemount scope on it for hunting. Original owner was Brigadier General William Forrest Hemenway of Sycamore, IL who fought in the Mexican, WWI, and WW2.

Any comments?

Thanks,
Bill ]]> The Ross Rifle Knowledge Library Collectors Forum Navy CVA 34 62 66 http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=20762 Sutherland sight dis-assembly http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=20583&goto=newpost Wed, 31 Mar 2010 23:12:13 GMT I'm posting this wherever fans of Sir Charles Ross' rifles seem to gather, so pardon me if you're seeing this more than once.

The Sutherland sight on my Ross Mk. II 5*, complicated beauty that it is, needs some help. The sliding/elevation portion of the sight is loose...floating freely, so that adjusting the elevation with the knob on the top of the sight rotates the tube assembly, but leaves the sight behind.

The button on the front of the sight, affixed to the v-notch is also loose. I'm led to believe there's a spring inside which may be gummed up, or perhaps missing, thus preventing a grip on the elevation tube. Soaking the sight has produced no results thus far, so I'm considering tearing the sight down, carefully to see if I can figure out what's going on. But where to start? :dunno:

Any step-by-step dis-assembly explanation would be greatly appreciated (and if accompanied by photos would be above and beyond helping).

Thanks. ]]> The Ross Rifle Knowledge Library Collectors Forum RangeRover http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=20583 1905 Bolt disassembly http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=20361&goto=newpost Tue, 23 Mar 2010 06:21:09 GMT hi guys, I know there's info, with pics, on the 1910 bolt. Can they be used as a general guide (i.e. gently pry the extractor away from the bolt head, etc) for the 1905 models. Still new to the Ross.
thanx

TB ]]> The Ross Rifle Knowledge Library Collectors Forum tinbirdrod http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=20361 Given a sporterized Ross 1905 - Questions? http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=20211&goto=newpost Tue, 16 Mar 2010 23:05:10 GMT I was given a sporterized Ross 1905 yesterday by a fellow who didn't want it, his grandfather had hunted with it I guess. anyway, the only stamping on the barrel is on the top just ahead of the receiver. It is stamped 303 Ross (I'm guessing that a gunsmith did this and that the cartridge would be the 303 British.

The barrel is 26 1/8 inches (and the front blade missing). The fellow also gave me a 3/4" (?) diameter Weaver J 2 1/2 brass scope and mounts (odd looking but definitely off the rifle). The scope was made in El Paso,Texas. The rear sight had been removed and there is a blank in the dove tail.
the stock is sporter style, no handguard and no visible marks (I'm guessing any marks were sanded out) The buttplate is steel, with the sliding door and in fact there is an old piece of cardboard with a newsprint clipping attached from Col Crossman regarding the 'safety' issues and the confusion surrounding the different Ross models.

Did our troops ever use such a small scope? I'm thinking that it was part of a 'sporterizing' package to use the 3/4" size.

The bolt uses an interesting 'angle iron' shape for the extractor, was that the case for the mark I and mark II rifles or is it a possible method of model determination. The only marks on the rifle (other than the aforementioned 303 Ross) are on the receiver left side Ross Rifle Company Quebec 1905. If it was a 'mark 1 -5' would the asterisk be after the 1905?

Finally, this rifle is a shooter obviously, if I wanted to install a 1" scope, can you point me in the right direction for a supplier? My eyes are too old to use open sights, unless there's a compatable peep sight out there.

thank you in advance

Rod ]]> The Ross Rifle Knowledge Library Collectors Forum tinbirdrod http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=20211