Military Surplus Collectors Forums - MKL Featured Entry of the Month (READ ONLY)

1891 Model 1889 Schmidt Rubin Infantry Rifle

Badger — Mon, 31 May 2010 23:10:40 GMT

June 2010 - Featured Milsurp Knowledge Library Entry of the Month

Extracted from "Switzerland - Milsurp Knowledge Library"

1891 Model 1889 Schmidt Rubin Infantry Rifle
(Serial # 192 - Manufactured in 1891)

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

Quote:

Calibre: ........................ 7.5 x 53.5 Swiss (GP90 & GP 90/03) See Note #2 below
.................................... 7.5 x 54.5 Swiss (GP90/23) See Note #2 below
Rifling & Twist: .............. 3-groove, RH, concentric rifling, 1 in 10.63
Barrel Length: ............... 30.7 in. (780mm)
Overall Length: ............. 51.25 in.(1302mm)
Weight: ........................ 10.69 lbs. (4.85kg) (empty)
Magazine Capacity: ....... 12 round detachable box magazine
Qty Mfg: ....................... ~212,000

Source: ....................... Swiss Magazine Loading Rifles, 1869 to 1958
................................... by Joe Poyer - ISBN: 1882391322

Canadian Collector Market Value Estimate: $

1891 Model 1889 Schmidt Rubin Infantry Rifle

(62 picture virtual tour)

Observations: (Courtesy of Guisan - Copyright SwissRifles.com)

This rifle was officially adopted on June 26, 1889. Tooling had already begun in the state factory, and so the first deliveries were surprisingly speedy. The M1889 was a most unusual design, with a characteristically Swiss nose cap/bayonet lug/stacking rod assembly, and a receiver with a noticeable gap between the trigger guard and the magazine. The great length of the bolt weakened the Schmidt system greatly. Production ceased in 1897 after 211,890 rifles and 40-50 drill rifles (Exerzierwaffen) had been delivered.

Collector's Comments and Feedback:

1. The rifle displayed in the virtual tour pictorial was manufactured in 1891 and is one of the first 200 rifles of this model ever built. It is all matching and is complete with the first model 1889 muzzle cover, correct for M1889 rifles within serial number range #1 to #19301. It's also mounted with the special removable clip to hold magazine lever in down position, often missing from these rifles. (Feedback by "Badger")

2. CAUTION: DO NOT shoot the M1889 Schmidt-Rubin using standard 7.5 x 55 Swiss (GP11) military surplus ammunition. The chamber of the M1889 was not designed to handle the pressures generated by the more modern GP11 round. The Model 1889 action was designed to handle rounds that generated at most 39,000 psi, while GP11 rounds produce 45,500 psi. It is safe to fire modern 7.5 x 55 Swiss (GP11) rounds in Model 1896/11s, 1911s and K31s. If you wish to fire your M1889, you are going to have to reload your own cartridges. (Feedback by "Badger")

3. It is true that you should not fire GP-11 in a M1889, but the chamber isn't the reason. The concern is instability buckling failure of the bolt. In the Lg1889, the locking lugs are at the rear of the locking sleeve. The bolt assembly acts as long column with a wobbly joint in midspan. In the Lg1889/96, the lugs were moved to the front of the locking sleeve and made a little larger. This made the bolt "column" significantly shorter and stabilized the back end, eliminating the "wobbly joint". The larger contact area of the lugs allows for higher pressures without increasing stresses. Thus, when the GP-11 cartridge was developed, the Lg 1889/96 was suitable for rebarreling to the 7.5 x 55 cartridge, and nearly all of that model were so-converted and became known as the Lg 96/11. It was determined that the original Lg1889 was not suitable for conversion because of the bolt issue. The GP-90/23 cartridge was developed for the Lg 1889 so that users of that obsolescent arm would have a full metal jacket cartridge. Firing of GP-11 ammunition in Lg 1889 rifles was not authorized, except during the WW II emergency, when reservists and Landsturm who still held the rifle were told that they could use the GP-11 for "war emergency use" only.

The original GP-90 cartridge had a lead alloy bullet with an iron or mild steel "cap" at the nose; the assembly was then paper-patched. The bullet miked about .320-.321 over the patching. The neck of the 7.5 x 53.5 chamber was overly large to accomodate this projectile; and the leade of the chamber was both long and the angle very shallow to guide the projectile into the bore wihout tearing the paper patch. This is the reason that the Lg1889 did not perform paticularly well with GP-90/23, and the reason they don't do real well with our typical .308" bullet handloads (as compared to the rest of the S-R family and the K31).

I have done chamber casts of the three that I own; the length of the chambers on all is substantially greater than the "53.3" of the cartridge name. In fact, the chambers are long enough, and the chamber mouth is of such diameter that "pinching" of the case mouth of an errantly-fired GP-11 cartridge would not be an issue. A GP-11 cartridge would not be expected to generate pressure higher than that generated in a proper 7.5 x 55 chamber, and infact might be a little lower because of the freebore that the GP-11 bullet "sees" in that chamber ... but the pressure developed would be too much for the weaker, wobbly 1889 bolt to tolerate for any length of time.

Take Poyer's book with many grains of salt. Lots of errors in there. (Feedback by "Bob S")

1944 Mosin-Nagant M91-30 Sniper Rifle (Mfg by Ishevsk Arsenal)

Badger — Fri, 30 Apr 2010 21:30:35 GMT

May 2010 - Featured Milsurp Knowledge Library Entry of the Month

Extracted from "Russia - Milsurp Knowledge Library"

1944 Mosin-Nagant M91-30 Sniper Rifle
(Mfg by Ishevsk Arsenal)

(Click PIC to Enlarge) <--- Roza Shanina (1924-1945) (see note #5)

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

Quote:

Calibre: ....................... Russian Light Ball M'08; Bullet 148gr, Charge 48gr
Rifling & Twist: ............. 4 Grooves, Right Hand Twist
Muzzle Velocity: ........... 2850 fps
Barrel Length: .............. 28.7 in (729mm)
Overall Length: ............ 48.5 in. (1232mm) without bayonet
Overall Length: ............ 65.4 in. (1661mm) with bayonet
Weight: ....................... 11.3 lb (5.13Kg) without bayonet & sling
Magazine Capacity: ...... 5 round integral box
Scope: ......................... 3.5 power PU telescopic sight
Qty Mfg: ...................... Refer to Note #3 below under Collector's Comments and Feedback

Source: ...................... The Russian Mosin Nagant Page

Canadian Market Value Estimate: $

1944 Mosin-Nagant M91-30 Sniper Rifle

(103 picture virtual tour)

Observations:
Extracted from article by Bert Kortegaard

"During the Winter War of '39-'40 the Russians learned from the Finns through bitter experience, the value of snipers. Simo H�yh�, a farmer, is credited with the killing of over 500 Russian soldiers in fifteen weeks with his Model 1928 Mosin-Nagant rifle. As a result, the Russians began to place more emphasis on their sniper training program.

Production of the 1891/30 sniper rifles began in 1937 and ended in 1963, when the 1891/30 sniper rifle was replaced by the Dragunov sniper rifle. Sniper rifles were chosen for accuracy from the production lines, had the bolt turned down and were fitted with a telescopic sights. Apart from these differences, they were the standard 1891/30 rifle. Two types of scopes were used, the earlier 4 power P.E. scope and the compact 3.5 power P.U. scope. The best of the Russian snipers preferred the 1891/30 to the SVT40, which was also issued in a sniper model, because they were more reliable and the action made practically no noise."

Collector's Comments and Feedback:

1."Question: Is this an authentic Russian m91/30 PU sniper?"

Originally posted by Vic Thomas on Gunboards 03/15/2006 09:14:06 AM

Yes you have an authentic MN m91/30 PU sniper. It appears to be an original piece that has escaped most refurbes. The gun looks to be very nice and has a pretty rare leather sling. The scope appears to have been replaced at one time due to the rifles serial number being different on the mount facing. The mount is an Izhvesk made mount though. All in all I would say its a very nice wartime example of a PU.

Michigan Historical Collectables
Owner-operator Gunboards.com
Mosin Nagant.net"

2. With the amount of put-togethers and fakes floating around, collecting Mosin snipers can be a challenging experience. For the uneducated, there's a great introductory article by Vic Thomas titled Spotting A Fake Sniper" (click here) .............. (Feedback by "Badger")

3. Extracted from the 91/30 Sniper Page by Vic Thomas (click here). "Due to the secretive nature of the Soviets during the Cold War era, the subsequent manufacture, and re-manufacture of the weapons by numerous satellite states, and the chaotic state of the former USSR since the Iron Curtain finally came down, definitive manufacturing figures for 91/30 PU sniper rifles are hard to come by. According to German author and respected Mosin Nagant rifle authority Karl-Heinz Wrobel, the Iszevsk arsenal produced 53,195 91/30 PU sniper rifles in 1942, and a total of 275,250 when manufacture ended in 1958, when 100 PU rifles were made. A small batch of 50 was apparently manufactured in 1948, and one 1947 example is known to exist, which is in Wrobel’s collection. Numbers made at Tula, which only manufactured PU rifles in 1943 and 1944, are not known, although rifles from this arsenal are without a doubt much rarer than Iszevsk examples. Hungary only apparently manufactured 91/30 rifles from 1951-54, and the author has only encountered M/52 sniper variants dated from 1952 onwards, with the highest serial number recorded being 7700, which could be a reliable indicator of the number of the weapons produced." .............. (Feedback by "Badger")

4. Simo H�yh� had 542 confirmed kills with a mosin, usually an M28 or captured M38. He's also credited with approximately 200 more kills using a Suomi submachine gun. .............. (Feedback by "Claven2")

5. The female Russian sniper pictured in this MKL entry is Roza Yegorovna Shanina (1924-1945)

Place of birth: Yedma, Arkhangelsk Oblast, Russian SFSR
Place of death: East Prussia
Allegiance: Red Army
Years of service: 1943–1945
Rank: Senior Sergeant
Unit: 3rd Belorussian Front
Battles/wars: Eastern Front of World War II
Awards: Orders of Glory 3rd and 2nd class [1], Medal for Valor [2]

Roza Yegorovna Shanina (Russian: Роза Егоровна Шанина, 1924 – January 28, 1945) was a Soviet sniper during World War II. She was responsible for 54 confirmed kills, including 12 enemy soldiers during the Battle of Vilnius.[3] [4]

Shanina had light brown hair and blue eyes.[5] After attending Arkhangelsk Teacher's Training College, she became a mentor in the kindergarten. Then she voluntarily joined the Vsevobuch and later the Central Female Sniper Academy in Podolsk. On June 22, 1943 Shanina enlisted in the Red Army and on April 2, 1944 joined the 184th Rifle Division, where a separate female sniper platoon was formed. Once, upon receiving a battalion commander's order to immediately return to the rear, Shanina replied "I will return after the battle".[6] The words later became a title of the book From The Battle Returned by Nikolai Zhuravlyov. Shanina died in a battle near the khutor of Rikhau. Her battle diary and several letters have been published. Streets in Arkhangelsk and in the settlements of Shangaly and Stroyevskoye were named after her.

Shanina had four brothers, but only one survived the war.

Notes and references:

1. Awarded on June 18 and September 22, 1944 respectively.
2. Awarded on December 27, 1944.
3. SniperCentral.com
4. Russian: Овсянкин, Е. И. История АПК.
5. A-Z.ru.
6. (Russian) Молчанов, П., Журавлёв, Н. Подснежники на минном поле

Further reading
(Russian) Журавл�в, Н. После боя вернулась… (За честь и славу Родины). М., Досааф. 1985

.............. (Feedback by "Unsub") extracted from Roza Shanina

6. Ernest "mag30th" kindly gave us permission to show his range videos in "The Screening Room". One of them shows him engaging an 18" steel plate at 1000 yards with his 1942 91/30 Mosin Nagant sniper rifle. Some very nice shooting with a very old milsurp. .............. (Feedback by "Badger")

Quote:

To view any video, you must have Adobe Flash Player (click here) installed on your computer. Simply click on the film strip thumbnail pic and then on the PLAY button (big right arrow). Use the PAUSE and other buttons at the bottom of the video window to adjust your personal viewing preferences. Place your mouse over the video when it is playing, then "right click" for a "drop down box" to change other viewing preferences. Make sure you turn on your speakers and set the volume appropriately.

Mouse Click on the film strip thumbnail.

1,000 Yard Shooting (1942 91/30 Mosin Nagant Sniper Rifle)
(Videos by YouTube member Ernest "mag30th")

1942 Code AR K98k-ZF41 (Karabiner 98) Rifle (Mfg by Mauser Werke AG, Borsigwalde)

Badger — Tue, 30 Mar 2010 12:13:10 GMT

April 2010 - Featured Milsurp Knowledge Library Entry of the Month

Extracted from "Germany - Milsurp Knowledge Library"

1942 Code AR K98k-ZF41 (Karabiner 98) Rifle - Serial #1636k
(Mfg in 1942 by Mauser Werke AG, Borsigwalde)

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

Quote:

Caliber: .................................. 7.92 x 57mm (8mm Mauser)
Rifling & Twist: ...................... 4 Groove, Right Hand
Barrel Length: ........................ 23.62 in. (600mm)
Overall Length: ...................... 43.7 in. (1110mm)
Weight: .................................. 8.38 lb. (3.8 kg without sling, ammo or bayonet)
Magazine Capacity: ................ 5 rounds
Total K98k Qty Mfg ................. 14,048,789 (Estimated 1934 - 1945 from Richard Law's calculations)
1942 Qty&Ser# (ar 42)........... 110,489 (Low observed # 4583 - High observed # 5003)

Source: ....................... Backbone of the Wehrmacht
(The German K98k Rifle, 1934 - 1945) by Richard D Law" (1993) - ISBN: 0-88935-139-2

Canadian Collector Market Value Estimate: $

1942 Code AR K98k-ZF41 Rifle

(239 picture virtual tour)

Observations:

The K98k was the primary infantry rifle for the German Wehrmacht during World War II. The "k" is for Kurz, which means "short" in German. Check for matching serial numbers on left side of receiver, top of bolt flat, barrel, top of safety, top of bolt sleeve, cocking piece, upper band, lower band, butt plate, rear sight leaf, rear sight guide and stock bottom, with last two digits of serial number on virtually all other components, right down to the firing pin and cleaning rod. See virtual tour pics for details of font type and location of serial numbers. Check under wood for matching serial numbers on handguard and stock. Check for availability of correct WWII K98k sling with German Waffenamt WaA markings, which by itself can add approximately $100-$150 value to the rifle.

Collector's Comments and Feedback:

1. Starting from 1941 the short 1.5x Zielfernrohr 41 (Zf41) telescopic sight was fitted to some Karabiner 98k rifles for sharpshooting use. The Zf-41 was in fact the first attempt to provide the ordinary infantryman with a rifle capable of being used, if not for pure sniping, then at least for sharpshooting. Most modern-day armies have adopted some form of optical aiming device on infantryweapons (such as the ACOG scope). It was initially planned to equip most combat units with the Zf-41 scopes, but only 6% of German weapons production could fit the sight.

Though useful for sharpshooting with normal infantry units, the design was generally rejected by sniper schools and disliked by snipers, because the 1.5x magnifying scope was deemed insufficient for shooting effectively over long distances. Problems were the scope's extreme eye relief, poor functioning in bad light and low magnifying power. Nonetheless, lack of better scopes made that the Zf-41 was used by snipers at the early stages of the war against the Soviet Union, though many snipers preferred captured Soviet rifles and customly-equipped German rifles with civilian scopes such as the vintage Gewehr 98.

By the end of the war in 1945 more than 100,000 Zf-41 scopes had been produced, the largest production of German optical sights during the war.
....... (Feedback by "Badger")

2. WARNING: The K98k is one of the most commonly faked collector's rifles in the marketplace. Be very careful when you look to buy one of these on-line, or at gun shows. Get as much information as possible about the rifle and its provenance. Ask LOTS of questions, check the markings (particularly the stamping FONTS) against known "all correct" righteous samples, like the one displayed here in our virtual tour. However, please note that these fonts will vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, so buying Richard Law's book (see above) would be a good investment, if you're planning on becoming a serious collector of K98k rifles. If not offered, request a "money back" inspection period from the seller and above all, if it doesn't feel right .... don't buy, but seek some more experienced help. Don't hesitate to ask one of the folks on our MILSURPS.COM Advisory Panel, who perhaps have sound expertise on the K98k.

Here's a bunch of links to examples that should make you pay careful attention, especially when you're buying what may be portrayed as an "all correct" and "all matching" K98k rifle. The bottom line, validating provenance is becoming more important every day, particularly if one is buying these firearms as collectibles and expecting them to appreciate in value over time.

Links and content are credited to Brock's , Inc., Decatur, GA. (click here)

FAKE K98k BOLT NUMBERS (click here)
FAKE K98k FLOOR PLATE NUMBERS (click here)
FAKE K98k FRONT BAND NUMBER (click here)
FAKE K98k MIDDLE BAND NUMBERS (click here)

"Caveat Emptor" ...... (Feedback by "Badger")

3. CAUTION: How do I tell if I have a rebuilt RC (Russian Capture) and not an original unaltered K98k?

Russian Capture K98k's all share similar traits. The are all WW2 era German Karabiners (though some are former Gew98's the Nazis had converted to K98k spec - rare though!). Most have matching receiver and barrel.

When the Russians came into these guns they stockpiled them and promptly began doing other more important things like rebuilding their cities, etc. Many RC rifles sat for month or even years exposed to the elements. By the late 1940's, many of these rifles were in an advanced state of deterioration, while some remained like new.

In true Russian style, a colossal public make-work project was undertaken. The ENTIRE inventory of German small arms then in Russian possession (roughly half the total wartime output of Nazi Germany's arms production) was ordered to undergo refurbishment and as many useable arms as possible to be made ready. Why? Russia was paranoid. The Cold War was freezing over and Russia feared invasion from the West. Also, it was a cheap source of arms they could export to allies in North Korea, Cuba, Vietnam, and every other wanna-be commi armpit of the world without depleting their "front line" weapons stockpiles.

The Russians took all their K98k's, and totally disassembled them except for the barrel. Bores were inspected and those found to be acceptable (ie, some pitting OK - so long as it's still safely shootable, much like with their refurbed Mosins) were set aside. Those that were deemed too far gone were recycled into steel for tractor parts or Order of Lennin medals, or whatever.

The small parts were all hot-dip reblued. Rusty parts were wire brushed or sandblasted first. These were placed indiscriminately in bins. The stocks were also inspected for serviceability. Those deemed acceptable were retained, those unacceptable were burned.

When the rifles were re-assembled no effort was made to match parts. A new (used) bolt was assembled and fitted to the receiver and the whole affair was assembled into a rifle from the binned parts. When done, most parts were electropencilled with the rifle's serial number and a flat was sanded on the left side of the wood stock (think big belt sander and half-drunk worker). The rifle's serial number was stamped there running parallel to the rifle's bore line. (Yugos are stamped perpendicular, for comparison)

Once complete, the whole rifle was generally painted in cheap shellac as a preservative agent - these are often not cosmolened for some reason - crated up and sent to war reserve, especially in the frontier states like Ukraine (which stored them in underground "nuclear proof" depleted salt mines). Today, cash strapped former Soviet states are all too happy to sell these to us.

It's difficult to say what percentage of captured arms survived the rebuild programs, but I'd imagine maybe half (or less) would be a good guess. Many of these arms sat out in the open for LONG periods of time before being rebuilt, so attrition due to the elements was probably a factor.

It's also wrong to assume that RC's are, in fact, "captures". At any given moment, less than 2 million Nazi troops would have served on the Russian front. Not all would have had K98K's. Over 14 Million K98k's were built and most experts agree that somewhere around 7 million likely ended up in Russian hands after the war. Throughout the whole war, it's doubtful a full 7 million K98k's traveled to east Prussia and beyond.

When Nazi Germany surrendered to the Allies, the Whermacht assembled at depots all over Europe and turned in their arms. Additionally, government arms stockpiles and factories were captured and divied up by the victorious armies. At hostilities cessation, every Mauser weapon in the future East Germany (and all points east) would have become what we think of as an "RC K98k". Public ownership of guns in the USSR was banned as well. So whether a rifle was taken from a dead private in 1944 Minsk or if the NKVD knocked on a door in Berlin in 1947 and confiscated the arm from a retired volkspolitzei prison guard, it still ended up in the stocks of RC mausers. In fact, it's safe to say the MAJORITY of such guns are likely NOT battlefield captures. ...... (Feedback by "Claven2")

4. KCN Newsletter (01/13/2002) "THE K98k-MAUSER WERKE BORSIGWALDE" written by Bob Jensen and edited by Peter Kuck

(Click PIC to read and save Adobe PDF File)
(Right Click on PIC and choose "Save Target As..." to download PDF file)

This PDF file written by Bob Jensen and edited Peter Kuck is an excellent quick reference to the various markings and other things to look for when examining a K98k Mauser manufactured by Oberndorf. ...... (Feedback by "Badger")

5. Here are two K98k Mauser videos which have been extracted from our on-line "Screening Room" (click here). The first is contemporary WWII German Color Training Film) on the K98k Mauser Rifle, while the second one is a German K98k Bolt "Stripping & Assembling" Tutorial (Video courtesy of MILSURPS.COM member "CmpsdNoMore"). ....... Feedback by "Badger".

To view any video, you must have Adobe Flash Player (click here) installed on your computer. Simply click on the film strip thumbnail pic and then on the PLAY button (big right arrow). Use the PAUSE and other buttons at the bottom of the video window to adjust your personal viewing preferences. Place your mouse over the video when it is playing, then "right click" for a "drop down box" to change other viewing preferences. Make sure you turn on your speakers and set the the volume appropriately.

Mouse Click on the film strip thumbnail.

K98k Mauser Rifle
(WWII German Color Training Film)
"English Soundtrack"

German K98k Bolt "Stripping & Assembling" Tutorial
(Video courtesy of MILSURPS.COM member "CmpsdNoMore")