Military Surplus Collectors Forums - MKL Featured Entry of the Month (READ ONLY)

Military Surplus Collectors Forums - MKL Featured Entry of the Month (READ ONLY) http://www.milsurps.com en Sat, 21 Nov 2009 18:52:49 GMT vBulletin 60 http://www.milsurps.com/images/import/misc/rss.jpg Military Surplus Collectors Forums - MKL Featured Entry of the Month (READ ONLY) http://www.milsurps.com 1941 Code jhv G98/40 Infantry Rifle Serial #1a http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=16607&goto=newpost Sat, 31 Oct 2009 19:49:19 GMT November 2009 - Featured Milsurp Knowledge Library Entry of the Month

Extracted from "Germany - Milsurp Knowledge Library"

1941 Code jhv G98/40 Infantry Rifle Serial #1a
(Mfg by Fémáru Fegyver és Gépgyár, Budapest)

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

Quote:

Caliber: ....................... 7.92 x 57mmJS (8mm Mauser)
Muzzle Velocity: ........... 780 m/sec with issue JS ball cartridge
Rifling: ........................ concentric 4 groove, 1 turn in 10 in. (Right Hand Twist)
Barrel Length: ............. 23.8 in. (605 mm)
Overall Length: ............ 43.0 in. (1092 mm)
Weight: ....................... 8.6 lbs. (3.91 Kg)
Magazine capacity: ...... 5 rounds, integral charger-loaded box magazine.
Qty Mfg: ...................... 140,000; 33,003 made in 1941 (approximately).

Source: ........................ "Bolt Action Rifles" Expanded 4th Ed., by Frank de Haas and Dr. Wayne van Zwoll, pp.51-55 ; Gunboards.com reference from Hungarian military historian Lorand Dombrady re: Qty Mfg. ; Mannlicher Infantry Rifles Hungary

Canadian Collector Market Value Estimate: $

1941 Code jhv G98/40 Infantry Rifle

(74 picture virtual tour)

Observations: by Andy
Note: Rifle provided courtesy of MILSURPS.COM Advisory Panel member "Andy" with photo montage pictures taken by "Claven2".

The Mannlicher Gew.98/40 German Infantry Rifle was known by the Germans as the Infanterie Gewehre G98/40.

These German contract guns were made from 1941 to 1944 by Fémáru Fegyver és Gépgyár, Budapest, (German Ordnance code “jhv”), with some or all of the work possibly subcontracted to Danuvia Gépgyár, Budapest (German Ordnance code “jua”).

{Note added by Claven2: During the war, the German’s referred to Fémáru Fegyver és Gépgyár, Budapest as Metallwaren-Waffen und Maschinenfabrik, Budapest (HU). After the war, the arms maker became known commonly as “FEG”. A full list of codes, including jhv, and most WaA's can be referenced in the following Milsurps Knowledge Library entry: "Das Heereswaffenamt" (Detailed Listing of German WaA Markings and Codes)}

The Hungarian-made G98/40 is not a mauser, and shares nothing significant with the G98, rather it is a mannlicher-based receiver design patterned after the Hungarian 35M, the only firearm ever purpose-built for the 8x56R cartridge. The G98/40 was contracted as a war-expedient, to exploit the existing 35M tooling. They were issued primarily to the Luftwaffe.

Distinguishing features of the G98/40 include:

- mannlicher-based receiver design with all steel parts blued;
- two-piece bolt with detachable bolt-heads, and bolt handle positonned ahead of the receiver bridge;
- chambered in 8x57;
- two-piece stock system (similar to that found on the Lee Enfield). Early stocks were walnut, later laminate; and
- mauser sling, bayonet and staggered row magazine designs, allowing the use of the K98 sling, bayonet and stripper clips.

In 1943, the Hungarian Government, adopted a variation of the G98/40 known as the 43M, which differs slightly in sling and bayonet arrangements, but is otherwise identical to the G98/40.

Collector's Comments and Feedback:

1. Production numbers of G98/40 rifles by year, according to best available sources, are as follows:

Manufacturing data:

1941: 33000
1942: 32000
1943: 59000
1944: 14400
Total: 138400

At some point in 1943, the WaA inspection number used on these rifles switched from WaA56 to WaA173.

G98/40 infantry rifles are among the rarest Third Reich infantry rifles a collector is likely to encounter and should be recognized and purchased at any opportunity, if possible. Available numbers of examples today indicate that either very few rifles survived the war, or the countries who may still have them aren't releasing them for sale at this time.

Little more is known about the G98/40 series rifles as the region fell under the communist sphere of influence during the Cold War and much documentation was lost. Hungary's modern-day gun laws are very restrictive and civilian interest in firearms is not strongly encouraged. As such, locating material by "local experts" is difficult or even unlikely. .......... (Feedback by "Claven2")

2. It has come to the attention of the Advisory Panel that at least as early as 1943, G98/40's were serialized on the bolt root in fonts similar to the K98k with a script letter suffix. The example depicted here, rifle serial number 1a - jhv41, is not so numbered. Rather, the bolt is numbered in a "sans-serif" font without suffix on the bolt knob. Examination of the photos of this rifle will show the serial numbered parts are a mixture of serif and sans-serif numbers. None of the numbered locations readily appears to have been ground and renumbered.

Pictures have been added courtesy of the owner showing detailed photos of the bolt root area. At this time, we cannot conclude obvious scrubbing, grinding, milling, sanding, etc. on the root and the root shelf remains well defined to the eye. If the bolt has been scrubbed of another number, we can not readily discern it.

It may be possible that given the rifle's early manufacture date and serial number that the "accepted convention" for numbering had not yet been standardized when this rifle was produced. It may also be possible the bolt was an un-numbered armorer's replacement. These explanations remain conjecture.

At this time though, the collector should be aware that for the majority of G98/40 examples encountered, the bolt should be numbered at the root in a fashion reminiscent of K98k production. .......... (Feedback by "Claven2")

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

]]> MKL Featured Entry of the Month (READ ONLY) Badger http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=16607 1945 Enfield No.4 Mk1*(T) Long Branch Sniper Rifle http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=15788&goto=newpost Wed, 30 Sep 2009 11:04:06 GMT October 2009 - Featured Milsurp Knowledge Library Entry of the Month

Extracted from "Canada - Milsurp Knowledge Library"

1945 Enfield No.4 Mk1*(T) Long Branch Sniper Rifle
(Mfg by Long Branch Arsenal, Leaside, Ontario, Canada)

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

Quote:

Calibre: ....................... .303 in.
Rifling & Twist: ............. 5 Groove, Enfield, Left Hand
Barrel Length: .............. 25.2 in. (640mm)
Overall Length: ............ 44.5 in. (1130mm)
Weight: ....................... 11 lb. 10 oz. (5.3kg)
Magazine Capacity: ...... 10 rounds
Converted: .................. Long Branch
Scope: ......................... No.32 Mk.3 Scope #COS2039A Mfg by R.E.L (Research Enterprises Ltd.), Leaside Ontario, Canada
Qty Mfg: ...................... 992 (Accepted Production from 1941-45 by Department of Munitions and Supply)
Note: .......................... 1141 (Calculated total mfg estimates as of Dec 31/1945 in Laidler/Skennerton publications)

Source: .... The British Sniper by Ian Skennerton (1983) - ISBN: 0949749036
Source: .... The Lee Enfield by Ian Skennerton (2007) - ISBN: 9780949749826
Source: ......... An Armorer's Perspective: .303 No.4(T) Sniper Rifle by Peter Laidler & Ian Skennerton (1993) - ISBN: 0949749176

Canadian Market Value Estimate: $

1945 Enfield No.4 Mk1*(T) Long Branch Sniper Rifle

(160 picture virtual tour)

Observations:
Note: Pics of rifle provided courtesy of MILSURPS.COM member ~Angel~.

Check for "Maltese Cross" indicating non-standard parts on underside of forestock and possibly on rear of Mk1 modified sight. Long Branch scope mount is unique with rifle serial number and "C" Broad Arrow markings present on left side, plus distinct round dimples in center of both scope mounting wheels. Check for presence of matching scope serial number stamped on top of stock wrist behind cocking piece. Check for "C" Broad Arrow marks on scope mounting "pads".

Collector's Comments and Feedback:

1. Excellent general article titled “Is my Lee Enfield sniper rifle a fake?” (click here) by a one of our members, Terry "maple_leaf_eh" Warner.

2. Feedback provided by Advisory Panel member "Lee Enfield", with updated information as to quantity manufactured, using data from Clive Law's book.

71 mfg up to Dec 31, 1943
1141 Jan 1 1944 to Dec 31 1945 (Note: Skennerton lists approximately 99 [of 350] No32TPs as being set up during early 1945) 376 mfg by Canadian Arsenals Ltd 1946 (Note: Most or all being C.No.32 Mk3 scopes)

1588 total manufacture

Note: Only 1,524 scopes are recorded as having been produced & purchased by R.E.L. & DND respectively.

Law's conclusions are that the REL No.32 MkI, IA & II scopes are numbered CONSECUTIVELY, while the C.No.67 (No.32 MkIV), C.No.32 Mk3, and No.32TP run in their own sequences. Having said that, MkI, IA & II serials show limited (and unexplained) overlap (probably like a late numbered receiver with earlier features).

Laidler's original conclusion was that all serials had their own ranges, but I have been assured (by Law) that Laidler has since changed his mind to reflect Law's evidence. ....... Feedback by Advisory Panel Member "Lee Enfield".

Source: Without Warning - 20th Century Sniper Equipment of the Canadian Army, by Clive M. Law (2004), ISBN: 1-894581-16-4

3. Skennerton is unfortunately incorrect about the location of REL. REL was based at Leaside, Ontario (suburb of Toronto). This info is also contained in Law's "W/O Warning". I had to learn this the hard way via arguing with a friend who collects binoculars & was very embarrassed when I had to admit my error after he sent me reference material (and those binoc guys never forget) ....... Feedback by Advisory Panel Member "Lee Enfield".

4. If you are a serious collector and paying top dollar for a Long Branch sniper rifle as a collectible piece and it's being sold complete with it's transit "CHEST.S.A.No.15.MK.1", then ensure it's the original Canadian version, not the British "CHEST.S.A.No.15.MK.1". ....... Feedback by "Badger".

Quote:

"REAR VIEW" - Canadian built "CHEST.S.A.No.15.MK.1" transit case for No.4(T) Long Branch sniper rifle.

Differs from standard British No.15 transit chest. The Canadian version uses stitched leather carry handles versus double folded ones, plus it has hinge sets with 4 screws instead of 3. (refer to picture virtual tour above for more detail)

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

"REAR VIEW" - Typical British built "CHEST.S.A.No.15.MK.1" transit case for No.4(T) sniper rifle.

Note the double folded leather carry handles, plus it has hinge sets with 3 screws instead of 4 in the Canadian version for the Long Branch sniper rifle. (refer to picture virtual tour above for more detail)

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

5. Canadian No.15 chests will have the initials HCF stamped on the edge of the bottom at one end. This is HILL CLARK FRANCIS of New Liskeard, Ontario. The company still has an office there but unfortunately all the pieces that were still in the warehouse went to the dump in the early 70's. They also made the cases for the Browning AC Mk. II and Mk. II* machine gun, and the Bren. They also made several other arms and munitions shipping cases. I'm just now getting time to get into the records for a complete listing of all the wooden cases they made during WW II. ....... Feedback by "wheaty".

6. For collectors, it should be noted that the carrying case for the No.32 REL scope for the Long Branch No.4(T) sniper rifle, unlike it's British counterpart for their No.4(T) sniper rifle, was NOT marked with the serial number of the corresponding rifle. (refer to picture virtual tour above for more detail) ....... Feedback by "Badger".

Quote:

Carrying Case for REL No.32 Mk 3 Scope used on Long Branch No.4(T) sniper rifle.

Markings:
CASE.SGT.TEL.C No.8 Mk 2
C.O.S. 2578A
REL/CANADA

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

7. (PAC photos 141722 and 141723 (Ken Bell)) .... "Sergeant Harold A. Marshall was the sergeant of the scout platoon of The Calgary Highlanders. He was a sniper, trained and equipped to kill at long range. Marshall carries a SMLE no. 4 Mk 1 (T) rifle fitted with a sniper scope. He wears a 'Denison smock,' designed for use by paratroops, but adopted by snipers because of its camouflage pattern. Over his head the sergeant wears his green and brown mesh face veil. Marshall was wounded on December 15th 1944." ....... Feedback by "Badger".

Quote:

Sergeant Harold A. Marshall, The Calgary Highlanders, Belgium, 6 October 1944.

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

Canadian Scout and Sniper Platoon (click here)

8. Good day. I read your article on the Canadian CNo7 rifle and noted a not often known fact that lead to a mistake in your information about the No7 rifle. You stated that the CNo7 rifles were equipped with the T sniper sling swivel and that some of the canvas cover loops maybe broken off due to over turning the loop. The fact is --that many people do not know--and I am not belittling you or your well presented article/post. But forward it on in the interest of furthering our Enfield knowledge.

Firstly-- the No4T sniper sling swivel was equipped with a longer shaft on the swivel itself that allowed full rotation of the swivel itself without catching on the cover loop.

Secondly-- the later target swivels from Parker Hale had a shorter attaching stud shaft and therefore would not be able to swivel on the mounting shaft/stud, without catching the cover loop.

For this reason it is a small issue but one can assess the originality of at least one item on a No4T, if the sling swivel clears the loop we have an original sniper swivel. If it does not, move on and check all other items on the sniper to assess whether or not the claim that may have been made that the rifle is original. One piece not an original piece of equipment to the T rifles does not mean that the rest of the rifle will not be but it raises the question of whether or not a certain rifle was assembled from parts due to the value of these rifles now-a-days or whether it is an all original rifle. So many people do not know this little detail. They advertise their T rifle as all original when in fact the rifle was a bitster or a restoration from a sported sniper.

I do not know however whether the Canadian CNo7 rifles came with the original (high) sniper swivel, or whether they were equipped with the PH target swivel. It is possible that people think the No7's came with the T swivel when in fact they did originally come with the NONE --T-- swivel manufactured by Parker Hale, with the shorter target swivel shaft. .............. Feedback by "terryinvictoria"

9. With reference to terryinvictoria's comments, his feedback mostly concerns the design of "original" T sniper target swivels. I would counter by pointing out that on checking the Canadian ordnance parts list, both the Canadian No.4(T) sniper rifle and the Cno7 .22 rifle share the same sling swivel. The NSN is 1005-21-103-1202, and the reference number is DD(E)3699. While I am not in a position to argue with or against Terry's points with reference to the sling swivels used on British rifles, as I have only had a half dozen or so of these on which to compare, I would suggest that in Canadian service, the swivel is the same, and that on both the rifle types in question, the swivel is identical. .............. Feedback by "stencollector"

10. In reference to terryinvictoria's feedback, here's an example of a No.4(T) sling swivel with British government "Broad Arrow" acceptance markings. The sling swivel pictured below does not rotate 360 degrees.

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

Interestingly enough, it's the original one that came installed on the 1944 Enfield No.4 Mk1(T) Sniper Rifle (click here) from Captain Peter Mason's "4 Commando" unit that is featured in the England - Milsurp Knowledge Library (click here).

In addition, the target sling swivel on the 1944 C No.7 .22 Caliber Lee-Enfield Training Rifle (click here) , featured in the Canada - Milsurp Knowledge Library (click here), also does not rotate 360 degrees, as shown in the pics of it below.

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

This information got me curious, so I went on a hunting expedition through ~Angel~'s Enfield collection and dug out ten (10) No.4(T) sniper rifles, all dating between 1944 and 1945, which included a Canadian Long Branch. Only one (1) was equipped with a target sling swivel that rotated 360 degrees. As shown in the pics below, it also happens to be the only one that's marked "Parker Hale - Made on England" and it has no British government "Broad Arrow" acceptance markings at all.

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

My Conclusions?

Well, I have to say that the follow up research I've done on the sampling of ten No.4(T)'s and three (3) C No.7 .22 training rifles, seems to support stencollector's original conclusions in his article above, where he stated "Lastly, a target swivel, the same as that installed on a “T” sniper rifle, was installed just forward of the magazine on the king screw. An interesting anomaly of the target swivel is that many Cno7s can be found with the small action cover attaching loop, located between the magazine and the target swivel, missing. They are likely broken off by the rotation of the target swivel.

We'd be interested in hearing from anyone else with empirical data who could shed some more light on this. .............. Feedback by "Badger"

11. I was just reading this Knowledge Library entry page and I came across the "feedback" by "terryinvictoria" about the king screw sling swivel. Sadly he is incorrect. The only swivels which clear the action cover loop are aftermarket produced, ala "Parker Hale".

I do have some military issue swivels which clear the loop, but they are specifically for the Australian HT. These were a straight copy (or unmarked variant) of the common swivel used in Australia on their "range rifles" pre-WWII, and subsequently militarized during the war.

I obtained my samples from "Vulch" on the old Gun & Knife and Gunboards forums. I'm sure "terryinvictoria" also obtained a sample from the same source, and ascribed it's features to all military swivels. In the Ts & No7s (5) immediately to hand none have swivels which clear the loop.

Strangely enough, Peter Laidler addressed this exact subject in relation to the No4T and L42 on Jouster some weeks ago. .............. Feedback by "Lee Enfield"

Quote:

Posted By: Peter Laidler
Date: Wed 20 Feb 2008 12:25 pm

Thread titled “sniper rifle warning................”

I notice that the rifle referred to here and others that I've seen/noticed have a fake/post war/commercial trigger guard sling swivel. How do you tell one of these from the real thing? Simple. The Military issue sling swivel, B1/CR-540, WILL FOUL the steel loop at the front of the trigger guard. Read that again. It WILL FOUL the loop at 180 degrees of rotation either way. The reason is to prevent the sling loop and sling rotating and getting itself into a twist.

The post war commercial item that fakers use is slightly longer and will just clear the small wire loop. This allows it and therefore the sling to rotate through 360 degrees. The sling can and will twist. So be advised of this very small point. If this small point isn't right, ask yourself WHY. It left military service with the right one........... That's if it is a true No4T or L42!

Remember. Real McCoy, WILL foul the wire loop. A post war commercial will NOT and will rotate through 360 degrees

------------------------------------------------------------------

Posted by: Peter Laidler
Date: Sun 1 Feb 2009 5:03 am

Being anal about the swivel.....

On the subject of the swivel, it's not meant to replace anything. It is in ADDITION to. The snipers were (and are) taught to use the different variables of sling and sling positions and the choice is left to them. Some ignore the SWIVEL, sling, triger guard and some used it but it was their choice.

The real McCoy were phosphated and painted and didn't always carry a makers mark. Those early wartime ones from H&H had a tiny S51 mark on the screwdriver slot end while some presumably later ones didn't carry a mark while other from BSA, for the No8 rifle, did carry the M47 mark, as did the Faz for their No8 production

Don't forget that there were TWO sorts. The COMMERCIAL one had a longer thicker part of the shaft that would enable the loop part to clear the little loop on the trigger guard while the UK MoD spec one had a deliberately short shaft that would stop at the loop and prevent the sling twisting.

If you have a LONG one, it belongs to a commercial target rifle. You can shorten the long thick part shaft on a lathe to make a good replica but you'll have to shorten the screwed part and recut the thread. If I remember, it's a 1/4" BSF but check first.................... Or one day I'll tell you about restoring nmy Mini and cutting 26TPI BSF threads when what I REALLY wanted was 28 TPI UNF. Well, it's an easy mistake to make!

12. I was looking over this Knowledge Library entry of for the No.4(T) Long Branch sniper and noticed my rear sight is slightly different than the markings of the one in the photo montage. Mine lacks the Canadian mark but does have the Maltese Cross. My trigger guard is also Savage but the rear sling swivel is not Savage as they did not make that style of sling swivel. It is pure Long Branch. .......... (Feedback by "Lance")

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

Lance's No.4(T) LB rear sight ..................... This No.4(T) MKL entry rear sight

13. Here’s a pic of the rear sling swivel Lance refers to in note #12. At the time of creating this photo montage, we weren't sure if the "S" looking mark was Savage or not. Based upon Lance's comments, it would seem it is NOT, but what the mark stands for is hard to discern. .......... (Feedback by "Badger")

"S" = Savage Inspection Mark on rear sling swivel?
(Font looks different than normal Savage square "S")

14. Here is a pic of a typical packing case tag used on a No.32 Mk.3 Scope R.E.L. Telescope found with a No.4(T) Long Branch sniper rifle. These are the tags that an armourer placed on the scope packing case, upon completion of their long term storage preparation process. Note that the serial number on the packing case for this No.32 Mk.3 R.E.L. Scope is 153-C for rifle 90L8195, whereas the example of the scope shown in our Knowledge Library entry is very close, being 174-C for rifle 90L8161............... Feedback by "Lance"

15. Here’s some background on 1945 serial numbers, which can be kind of confusing, because they often seem to overlap 1944 and 1949 dated receivers.

Quote:

This is explained by a few known facts:

1. Serials were (according to workers at INGLIS & LB) assigned after the rifles were completed, so there would have been 1944 & 1945 dated receivers mixed in the bucket & on the assemby line for a while.

2. There were spare "replacement" receivers manufactured. Some of these were final date stamped, others were finished and marked with "194_" they had the final date digit hand stamped in. These were receivers which were completed for future use but not assembled c. late '45-46. This is also especially apparent in early production 1949 dated LBs. Spare/replacement actions produced in 1950 after the @50,000 which were assembled in 1950-51 also show this feature. Occasionally they are seen dated 1953-56 with much earlier serial numbers (these are replacement actions assembed with salvageable parts from the serial donor gun). This is also true of the 1945 dated receivers. They were unserialed until assembly. We know this because in the fairly recent past these actions were "commonly available".

3. The Long Branch sniper serial "blocks" can't be construed as meaning anything date wise as the blocks were assigned to be outside of the normal production serial ranges. Note: Per research by Clive Law.

4. The only way to be "sure" of production date is to look at the "breeching date" on the barrel knox form reinforce. I'm not sure how this would have worked on a replacement receiver with a salvaged barrel. ....... (Feedback by Advisory Panel Member "Lee Enfield")

16. The Lee Enfield by Ian Skennerton (2007) - ISBN: 9780949749826 is an excellent general reference book on the evolution of Lee-Enfield rifles, however, it doesn't go into great detail on their use as sniper rifles. Ian Skennerton published an earlier 266 page work in 1983 called The British Sniper (British & Commonwealth Sniping & Equipments 1915-1983) - ISBN 0 949749 03 6. For anyone wanting a lot more detail research with pictures covering the evolution of sniping, this is an excellent supplement to his later work. It is out of print, so I'd suggest you use a "Google" search on the title to see if you can find a copy from one of the rare used book sources on the Internet. I found my copy on eBay. ....... (Feedback by "Badger")

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

17. The secret to creating and maintaining quality research data in the Milsurps Knowledge Library is you! This is your site and these MKL entries on various old milsurps are yours to add to, or change. The volunteers on the Advisory Panel (click here) can only do so much to vet and validate the information posted here, so please contribute as much as possible to help us present the most accurate and reliable data we can gather on these old milsurps. If you own a particular specimen of any MKL entry, then please send us pics of it, even though they may be duplicate views of pieces you already see here. In that way, we can build up multiple sets of pics for several milsurps of the same model, which will help in indentifying markings and authenticity. For example, in the case of this MKL entry of the 1945 Enfield No.4 Mk1*(T) Long Branch Sniper Rifle, if you own one, we'd like to receive more pics of the stampings and serial number views as shown in the "Observations" section and various "Collector's Comments and Feedback" notes. ALL pics and information received will be treated with the utmost confidentiality and respect of your privacy. Thanks to everyone who has contributed so far, which is helping to make the Milsurps Collectors Forums a prominent site for serious collectors of all genres of old milsurp collectibles. ....... (Feedback by "Badger") ]]> MKL Featured Entry of the Month (READ ONLY) Badger http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=15788 1916 M10 Mk. III Ross Rifle (Marked to 16th Battalion C.E.F.) http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=14869&goto=newpost Mon, 31 Aug 2009 18:03:14 GMT September 2009 - Featured Milsurp Knowledge Library Entry of the Month

Extracted from "Canada - Milsurp Knowledge Library"

1916 M10 Mk. III Ross Rifle (Marked to 16th Battalion C.E.F.)
(Mfg by The Ross Rifle Company, Quebec)

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

Quote:

Calibre: ....................... .303 in., Mk VII Ammo
Rifling & Twist: ............. 4 Groove, Enfield, Left Hand Twist
Barrel Length: .............. 30.5 in. (775mm)
Overall Length: ............ 50.5 in. (1283mm)
Overall Length: ............ 60.5 in. (1537mm) with bayonet attached
Weight: ....................... 8.6 lbs. (3.9kg)
Magazine Capacity: ...... 5 rounds, loaded with chargers
FRT #: ......................... 2126-1
Note: .......................... Mfg primarily 1914-1917, some assembled parts into 1918

Source: ....................... The Ross Rifle Story - ISBN: 0-9732416-0-8

Canadian Market Value Estimate: $

1916 M10 Mk. III Ross Rifle

(77picture virtual tour)

Observations: (by "tiriaq")

The manufacturer's marks are on the receiver and the Quebec stamp is on the butt. The serial number and year of manufacture are also on the butt. The rifle is marked to the 16th Battalion C.E.F. (Canadian Expeditionary Force) on the butt, and to the CRB on the receiver ring. More research is needed to determine what CRB stands for. Some proposed names are, Canadian Railway Battalion, Canadian Ranger Battalion or Candadian Reserve Battalion.

This would have been a later issue, after Ross rifles were withdrawn from front line service. The "E" stamp on the breech indicates that the rifle's chamber was reamed oversized in an Ordnance workshop in the U.K., to preclude ammunition compatibility issues. The bolt stop is the improved larger size. These alterations indicate that the rifle was retained in service. The bolt sleeve has the rivet installed to prevent incorrect (and potentially dangerous) re-assembly. This was a WWII modification, so the rifle was still in Canadian service at that time. The nose cap is a machined forging. This is in keeping with 1916 production; earlier rifles had a stamped nose cap manufactured by Mossberg. A forged nose cap will not fit a stock for a stamped one and vice versa. Stocks were initially black walnut and later yellow birch was used. The bayonet illustrated in the virtual tour pictorial, has had its blade altered to improve penetration capability. This was standard for Mk II bayonets issued with the Mk III rifle.

Collector's Comments and Feedback:

1. The Mk III Ross was the primary service rifle of the 1st Division, C.E.F. (Canadian Expeditionary Force), until June 1915, and of the 2nd Division until the summer of 1916. Serious problems with the Ross surfaced during the 2nd Battle of Ypres, April 1915. When the Mk III Ross rifles were withdrawn from front line service, SMLEs (Short Magazine Lee-Enfield) were issued. Subsequent Canadian service of the Mk III Ross rifle was in a secondary role, except for sniper rifles, which were retained in use through 1918. In 1939 there were approximately 120,000 Ross rifles of various marks still in inventory - there were more Rosses than SMLEs and they continued to serve in a secondary role until 1945. Ross rifle service was controversial and highly politicized. The primary and best reference on Ross Rifles is "The Ross Rifle Story - ISBN: 0-9732416-0-8". (Feedback by "tiriaq")

2. There's an outstanding article by "PerversPépère", on Ross M-10 Rifle Bolt Disassembly (click here) and the dangers of doing it incorrectly. It may be found under the Technical Articles for Milsurp Collectors and Re-loaders (click here) forum of the Milsurp Knowledge Libraries. ......... (Feedback by "Badger")

3. In regards to the "CRB" marking on the Ross Rifles, I have done a little research which may duplicate what you already know, but I provide what I found for your perusal. On Wikepedia there is a listing of the Canadian Battalions in WW1 & WW2. The link provided is for the 5th Division, you can toggle to the other divisions from it.

5th Canadian Division

The 5th was broken up in England before ever embarking for the European continent. You will see that 15 of its battalions from the 13th, 14th & 15th Canadian Brigades were absorbed by different battalions of the CANADIAN RESERVE BATTALION (2nd to 23d). Only the Ist Pioneer Battalion of the 1st Canadian Division became the 9th Canadian Railway Battalion. I believe it was your conjecture that the CRB marking referred to WW2, but I wondered if as the Ross' were returned from the front they made their way to the 5th battalion which subsequently became various battalions of the Canadian Reserve Battalion? Is there any way of telling if the CRB marking predates the reaming of the chambers which I understand happened in WW2?......... (Feedback by "Bushwacker")

4. As a Ross collector and aficionado I would like to add the following comment:

The Ross M10 has suffered for years with a reputation for poor tolerance for dirt. This is actually not totally the problem. The problem dates back to the original dispute between Britain and Canada which led to the development of the Ross rifle to begin with. When Sir Charles Ross developed his first rifles, there was a strong desire to have a "made in Canada" rifle. One result of this was to produce a cartridge similar to, but not identical to, the .303 British cartridge. This was the .303 Ross, and all Rosses were chambered in it up until the M1910. The .303 Ross cartridge case is very slightly narrower than the .303 British. Ross envisioned military rifles as long range precision target rifles, so his rifles were made with very tight tolerances.

Unfortunately, production of .303 British cartridges during WWI was very sloppy, with considerable variance noted between manufacturers. Although stories vary, it appears much of the trouble at the Battle of Ypres and other engagements was that the Canadian soldiers were issued with British ammunition, which was too large for the fine tolerance chambers. Once the rifles heated up, the cases jammed. Soldiers then had to use their feet to kick the bolts open. This not only introduced large quantities of mud into the chamber (bad for any rifle) but also resulted in the bolts being slammed back against the bolt stop, causing burring of the rear thread of the bolt, which in turn worsened the jamming issue. There is also a story which the user has been unable to confirm that the British issued a large quantity of Winchester ammunition to the Canadian forces, and this particular case lot had been rejected by the British themselves as inferior.

The problem of tolerances was circumvented by reaming the chambers. Often, M1910 Rosses will be found with an "LC" stamped on the top of the receiver. This stands for "Large Chamber", and indicates the gun has been reamed.

For those doubters who own an M1905 target rifle, try going to the range with modern military surplus ball ammunition and firing a few fast shots. At one point, before I needed funds for studies and moving, I had 13 M1905 Mk II** target rifles in various configurations. I shot them all at the range; 11 of them jammed shut after 4 quick shots and wouldn't open again until they had cooled down. Note that this does not occur with sporting rifles, as they were made with a larger chamber to begin with.

There were other issues with the Ross which made them unsuitable for trench warfare--their length (although the G98 and Lebel were just as long) and bayonet issues were problems as well. However, their bad reputation for jamming is not really their fault. ......... (Feedback by "boltaction") ]]> MKL Featured Entry of the Month (READ ONLY) Badger http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=14869 1971 L42A1 Enfield Sniper Rifle http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=13528&goto=newpost Fri, 31 Jul 2009 11:06:37 GMT August 2009 - Featured Milsurp Knowledge Library Entry of the Month

Extracted from "England - Milsurp Knowledge Library"

1971 L42A1 Enfield Sniper Rifle
(Originally a 1944 No.4 Mk1(T) mfg by BSA Shirley)

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

Quote:

Caliber: ....................... 7.62mm NATO (.308Win)
Rifling & Twist: ............. 4 Groove, Enfield, 1 twist in 305 mm (12 in), Right Hand
Barrel Length: .............. 27.5 in. (698.5mm)
Overall Length: ............ 46.5 in. (1185mm)
Weight: ....................... 10 lb. (4.53kg) (without scope)
Weight: ....................... 12 lb. 5oz. (5.72kg) (with scope)
Magazine Capacity: ...... 10 rounds
Converted: ................... By R.S.A.F. Enfield from original .303 caliber No.4 Mk1(T) sniper rifle
Approval date: ............. August 24th, 1970
Scope: ......................... TEL. STRT. STG. L1A1 O.S. 2429 G.A. (converted from No.32 Mk.3 Scope)
Qty Mfg: ...................... Approximately 1,100-1,200 converted from 1970-1992

Source: ....................... The British Sniper by Ian Skennerton (1983) - ISBN: 0949749036

Canadian Market Value Estimate: $

1971 L42A1 Enfield Sniper Rifle

(109 picture virtual tour)

Observations:
Note: Pics of rifle provided courtesy of MILSURPS.COM member ~Angel~.

"The Last Lee-Enfield" by Daniel Cotterill

It is a tribute to the design and utility of the Lee-Enfield bolt-action that it was still in service with the British Army more than 100 years after it was first adopted. The first British service Lee was the Lee-Metford adopted in December 1888, while the last was the L42A1 sniper rifle, which was only declared obsolete in April 1992. In between came the famous No. 1 Mk III Short, Magazine Lee-Enfield and its mass production-oriented successor, the No.4 rifle that served during and after World War II.

The L42A1 is a 7.62x51 mm NATO sniper rifle developed from the World War II-vintage .303 British No.4(T). The No.4(T) was Britain's main sniper rifle of World War II and consisted of a carefully selected No.4 service rifle mated with a No. 32 telescopic sight that had originally been designed to go on the Bren light machine gun.

When the 7.62x51 mm round became the NATO standard, Britain adopted a version of the Belgian FN Fusil Automatique Legere (FAL), known as the Self Loading Rifle (SLR), as its standard issue individual rifle. While the SLR was to prove an excellent battle implement, its level of accuracy fell a long way short of that necessary for a sniper rifle. The .303 No.4(T) rifle soldiered on in this role until the early 1970s despite that fact that its ammunition had been officially "obsolete" for over 10 years.

The British had originally planned to convert a large part of their existing stocks of No.4 rifles to 7.62 mm for issue to rear-echelon troops, and both Sterling and Enfield manufactured kits for this purpose. For various reasons, including poor accuracy and reduced personnel numbers, the conversion process of the No.4 rifle to L8 specification was not fully pursued, but some work was done on an L8T sniper rifle version. These L8T prototypes, externally identical to the .303 No.4(T) except for the magazine, were tested extensively in 1965 but did not succeed and were never issued.

The disappointing results achieved with the L8T were at odds with the excellent shooting being done by rifle club members at Bisley and other target ranges around the world at that time with converted No.4 7.62 mm rifles. In target rifle form, the No.4 action was mated with a heavy-profile, commercially manufactured barrel mounted in a shortened fore-end as the heavier barrel did not require support. These innovations were not lost on the designers at Enfield who soon incorporated similar features into a prototype rifle called the XL42E1.

The XL42E1 was extensively tested in competition with offerings from various rifle and scope manufacturers, and was found to offer the best combination of reliability and accuracy. The fact that it could be manufactured by converting the stockpile of existing No.4(T) rifles may have had some bearing on the decision. With a few minor specification changes, the XL42E1 was christened the L42A1, and production commenced in 1970. The specification of the trial rifles and the eventual production rifles was almost exactly the same-so much so that at least a few XL42E1s were later found on issue as regular sniper rifles.

The conversion of the No.4(T) to L42A1 specification is not as simple as it may first appear. New parts included the barrel, magazine, extractor and top handguard, while modifications were required to the foresight block, action body, rear sight slide and fore-end. The telescopic sight also required recalibration to suit the trajectory of the 7.62 mm round, and these were refurbished as part of the recalibration process with their designation changing from "Telescope No.32 Mk III" to "Telescope, Straight, Sighting, L1A1." The original designation can be seen barred out on the refurbished scopes. The iron rear sight was also altered to suit the new ammunition. An "M" is sometimes found on the rear sight and the range drum of the telescopic sight, which denotes metric conversion.

The barrel was a hammer-forged (click here) unit and has the "snakeskin" appearance peculiar to barrels made using that process. It was 27.5'' long and made from high-quality EN19AT steel. Early barrels feature the traditional, sharp edged Enfield rifling while later production could be found with more rounded off chordal rifling reminiscent of the original Metford system. This later type was cheaper and easier to manufacture when using the hammer-forging process.

The magazine was a completely new unit to cater to the 7.62 mm rimless round. The L42A1 used the Enfield pattern magazine with the ejector built onto the left rear magazine lip. This arrangement made the receiver mounted screw ejector redundant, and this was usually left out. The receiver was slightly modified in the magazine well to ensure the correct fit of the magazine and reliable feeding of cartridges.

All L42A1s had undergone a rigorous reproofing procedure to ensure their safe operation with the newer and more powerful 7.62 mm round. The proof mark "19T" in company with crossed flags can be found on the bolt handle, bolt head and receiver of all genuine L42A1s. It indicates that those components withstood a proof pressure of 19 tons per square inch.

The L42A1's fore-end was shortened, partly to save weight and partly because the heavier barrel does not require support. Some L42A1s appear to have been fitted with their original No. 4 (T) fore-ends suitably modified while others were fitted with new ones. A modified handguard from the No.8 .22 training rifle was used along with either a new or original butt and the same cheek rest as the No.4(T).

All L42A1s were based on existing No.4(T) rifles, some of which had seen a good deal of service. The front scope mounting pad screws of one rifle I examined have been restaked three times, indicating lots of hard service. Most of the original No. 4 (T) marks remain visible on the L42A1, even the obscure ones that tell the difference between an original and a fake.

The "T" stamping on the left of the receiver is sometimes missing on an L42A1 depending on how deeply the action was buffed prior to refinishing. Because the L42A1 is a conversion of the No.4(T), all are based on No.4 Mk I and Mk I* rifles. Any rifle purporting to be an L42A1 that is based on a Mk II receiver with its hung trigger should be treated with the gravest suspicion.

Each rifle and scope combination formed part of the Complete Equipment Schedule (CES) and, in common with the No.4(T), once the rifle and scope were paired they remained an item for the rest of their service life. The rifle's serial number was stamped on the scope mounting bracket while the scope's number was stamped on the small of the butt. The rifle and scope traveled in a large wooden chest with the scope further protected in a metal container. Included in the chest as part of the CES was a Scout Regiment telescope for observation and all the other equipment necessary to operate the rifle, such as cleaning gear, sling, user handbook and so on. There was also provision to store an "Individual Weapon Sight" (IWS) bracket. This terminology is confusing as the IWS is really a night sight.

An accurate production figure for the L42A1 proved to be an elusive target for a long time. Published texts contain estimates that "thousands" were built, but are unable to give specific numbers because, while the rifles were still front-line-issue British Army arms;, these figures were classified. Thanks to the assistance of researchers at the Australian War Memorial and the U.K. M.o.D. Pattern Room (before that marvelous resource fell victim to bureaucratic cost cutting) a more accurate estimates is now possible.

The British Army's Operational Requirements Branch stated a need for 840 rifles in September 1970, and included in that figure was an allocation to the Royal Marines. According to staff at the U.K. M.o.D. Pattern Room-who had access to contemporary Enfield files-this requirement was later increased to 892 rifles and progress documents dated February 2, 1972, record that 898 rifles had been assembled. The picture becomes a little blurred after that as delivery documents indicate that 967 rifles had been dispatched by November 7, 1973. There is also evidence that a further 40 rifles were delivered in 1975, 24 in 1976 and 18 in 1979. This amounts to a total of 1,049.

However, a batch of rifles is known to have been produced in 1980, though no information is currently available as to its size. Given the small size of other later orders it is reasonably safe to assume that it, too, was a small batch and, coupled with the 30 or so XL42Els produced, would have put total production somewhere between 1,100 and 1,200 rifles.

A batch of 637 rifles was sold to Navy Arms in the United States after the rifles were declared obsolete in 1992. According to a letter from the late Val J. Forgett, president and CEO of Navy Arms Co., Inc., to the Australian War Memorial dated October 10, 1994, most of those rifles were sold in their chests at $995 each, but all were missing the remainder of the CES. A surplus sale of that volume combined with the small number of rifles available privately in the United Kingdom suggests that a production figure of between 1,100 and 1,200 is a relatively safe number.

In the late 1970s, a dozen L42A1s along with the CES were imported into Australia for Army trials. Two of those rifles "lost" their telescopic sights, and there were 10 complete rifles in storage at Randwick Barracks in the early 1990s. At some point soon after the rifles arrived in Australia, the Scout Regiment telescopes were removed from the chests, possibly for use by Army snipers who were then still equipped with No. 1 Mk III High Mount .303 sniper rifles prior to the eventual issue of the Parker-Hale rifle in 1982.

Shooting an L42A1 is an impressive experience. Forget any prejudices you may have about inaccurate or inconsistent Lee-Enfield rifles-the L42A1 is as accurate as just about anything else for practical purposes. It is a very handy rifle at long range, too, and by long range I mean out to 900 yds., which is the longest range at which I have had the opportunity to fire one. There are accounts of accurate shooting out to 1,000 yards with an L42A1. Firing a competitive score against a modern Palma Match target rifle is a realistic proposition. An L42A1 is a carefully assembled, well-balanced rifle with a crisp trigger pull and an excellent (if low powered) telescopic sight. It represents the pinnacle of development for the renowned and enduring Lee-Enfield series of bolt-action rifles.

The L42A1 served with the British Army for nearly 25 years, and it reportedly gave excellent service wherever it was used. Deployments included such well-known destinations as the Falklands and Northern Ireland. Peter Laidler, a noted armorer and writer on the subject, has speculated about how many urban terrorists have fallen to the combination of an L42A1 and the Starlight night scope without ever knowing what hit them.

During the Falklands War between the British and Argentina in 1984 over the Falklands Islands in the South Atlantic, a particularly savage action was fought between the British 2nd battalion, Parachute Regiment, and the Argentines at Goose Green. It was arguably the longest and toughest battle of that brief but bloody war.

The British Paras numbered 600 and were up against 1,400 Argentine soldiers. They were fighting over open ground in daylight against prepared positions, were low on ammunition and lacked adequate fire support. The British won the fight but lost 17 of their soldiers against some 200 Argentine dead. Their L42A1 equipped snipers are known to have made a significant contribution to that grim toll.

The L42A1 was less fashionable but more consistent and reliable in the field that many of its contemporaries. During the trial process prior to its adoption it reportedly "shot them all into a cocked hat."

Whatever else may be said of the L42A1, it was certainly a worthy rifle to be the last of the long line of Lee-Enfield bolt-actions that had served British and Commonwealth forces with such distinction for more than a century.

Collector's Comments and Feedback:

1. The L42A1 displayed in the picture virtual tour is "all matching" and "all correct". It comes with the correct transit chest and all accessories, including the L1A1 scope can, complete rifle cleaning kit, lens cleaning brush and container, chamber cleaning stick, IWS Mount for night scope, Scout Regiment Observer's Telescope and nylon web rifle sling. The only item missing from the kit is the Starlight night scope, which was issued separately. The pic below (courtesy of willyp) identifies and shows the layout of the L42A1's various accessories and how they should be properly stored in the transit chest. ...... (Feedback by "Badger")

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

2. Yes thanks for the info but please check your facts about the Falklands conflict and the battle of Goose Green. The war was 1982 not 1984. Although the Brits were outnumbered numerically, the number of combat personnel involved in each side was about the same. There were a lot of Argie non combatants who took no part in the battle.

The number of Argentenian casualties was about 55 not 200. Never the less it was a great victory for the Paras. Sorry to sound stuffy but I have done a lot of research on this interesting war. Although the L42 was used I don't think it played any significant role at Goose Green. Though it was interestingly enough used in an anti ship role in South Georgia!...... (Feedback by CGN member "55recce")

3. Here are a set of pics showing the PVS-1 night scope mounted on my L42A1. Note the picture of the batteries that came with it and specifically the date on them. It's 1993 and they still work. I had to throw a couple out that were dated back in the 70's. I hope I can find replacements in the future. Also Notice that they are 7.0v instead of 6.5v. While the batteries shown in the picture are marked 7 volts, a 6.5 volt battery is identical. This is because each individual cell in the battery produces 2.12 volts. These particular batteries are 3 cell units, therefore 3 x 2.12 = 6.36, if the units in question were four cell units they would be '8 volt' (actually 8.48 volt). The 7 volt nomenclature is unlikely to be correct, although a six volt battery fresh off the production line will show 7.xx volts. More important for anyone who owns such a device is the amp hour rating of the battery, as this will have a greater effect on the run time of the device. Please note that it's highly illegal to throw them in the garbage or dispose of them anywhere but a hazardous waste facility. ...... (Feedback and pics provided courtesy of "Ricoim")

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

4. The IWS weapon sight was a 3.75x magnification first generation British weapon sight, based on a triple staged intensifier tube with Automatic brightness control, in fact it is the same tube that was used in the later versions of the US PVS-2 system. It was designed to be mounted on the L42a1 rifle, Carl Gustav rocket launcher, L1a1 rifle, and M16 rifle and the L7 GMPG.

It was powered by two 6.75 volt mercury batteries providing about 70-100 hours of power for the unit. It is superior to the PVS-2 type system in that it has an internally adjustable reticle (graticule) that lies in the front focal plane of the weapon each click is ½ Mil of adjustment (1mil =~3.4 MOA). In contrast the PVS-2 had a fixed reticle and could only be used with externally adjustable mounts designed for specific weapons such as the M16 or M14. The effective range for the unit is 300m under starlight conditions, improving to 500m in higher ambient light conditions (moonlight) which is similar to ranges for the PVS-2 unit of the same vintage. During the Vietnam war PVS-2 equipped XM-21 sniper rifles regularly scored kills out to 300-500m. The sight comes equipped with a front lens cap that incorporates a neutral density filter to be used during daylight to zero the unit, it can be set to three settings.

The reticle of the unit:

Points a and b on the reticule correspond to 200m and 500m respectively for 7.62mm weapons. The cross above point a is used to boresight the Carl Gustav anti-tank weapon. Points b,c,d,e,f correspond to 100, 200, 300, 400, 500m when using the Carl Gustav Lines G,H,I correspond to leads of 7.5 mils, 15 mils, and 30 mils respectively. These were typically employed when using the Carl Gustav, but could also be employed as windage holds with the 7.62mm rifles.

Zeroing the Unit:

Place unit in stable rest and sight the rifle at 200m using iron sights. While viewing the target through the eyepiece adjust the filter and focusing knob to obtain a clear image. Adjust the reticle screws so that point a on the reticle corresponds to the target. If possible verify the zero by firing a group. Adjust if necessary. ...... (Feedback by "harlikwin")

IWS Reticle

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

5. I had some time on my hands today, so I dragged out ~Angel~'s two L42A1's from her collection. One is the very early 1971 conversion featured here in this MKL entry, while the other is a very late in the genre 1979 conversion (no photo montage as yet). It's interesting to see the changes in the markings and other conversion items over that 8 year time span.

Here's the pics and you can see they marked the "19T" and "crossed flags" clearly on the early 1971, exactly as Cotterill's article stated. However, note how they got a little "loose" at the end of the run some 8 years later, so although I think his article is generally accurate, his definitive statements about the "19T" and "crossed flags" aren't necessarily gospel and valid across the entire span of these rifles during their conversions. Note: That conclusion is just my personal opinion....... (Feedback by "Badger")

1971 L42A1 Enfield Sniper Rifle (featured here)

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

1979 L42A1 Enfield Sniper Rifle (not the one featured here)

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

6. I saw this post by Alan Roberts over on Jouster's forums and I thought Enfield L42 collectors would find it interesting. ...... (Feedback by "Badger")

Quote:

L42 Scope / Case..

Posted By: Alan Roberts
Date: Sat 12 Apr 2008 2:24 pm

I had cause to ask Peter Laidler about the mysterious plastic type case for the Scout Regiment scope (how does he know all this stuff ?) and this is his reply……………..

"Here’s a few things that owners of L42’s ought to know about. The first is that during the later days of its life, the leather ‘CASE, sighting telescope’ was in short supply and was being replaced by a kakhi/deep bronze green plastic version with a part number of V5/1240-99-966-0837. This little scope case was about the same size as the luxurious leather version of 11 ½” long x 3” diameter. The cap fitted over the case in much the same way as it did on the leather original. It came with a long ¾” wide nylon strap.

At the same time as this case came into the system, the whole telescope and case assembly/unit changed designation and became the ‘TELESCOPE, Straight, cased, L1A1’ with a part number of V5/1240/99/962/2031 and this number is/should be marked near the bottom of the case. Look, don’t ask why it all changed from Telescope Scout Regiment ……….., I just don’t know and don’t even TRY to understand the Army Ordnance system. But this will explain just WHY the list of contents in the top of the L42 chest sometimes reads TELESCOPE, Straight case instead of TELESCOPE, Scout Regt!

Recently there has been a bit of dispute as to whether these plastic cases are actually original or not. Worry not. They are original. Now, if you have one in your No4T kit, then while it’s ‘original’ it’s not as original as the leather one. But for an L42, it’s ‘original’.

Now, back to L42’s. The later conversions dated 1980 and 81 especially with the small step where the barrel emerges from under the fore-end, and with a clean machined finish indicating chordal rifling, should be aware that unlike the earlier 70’s conversions, these were linished clean of any markings prior to conversion EXCEPT THE SERIAL NUMBER, according to the specifications. These particular rifles are extremely rare beasts so if you do own one, don’t be too surprised if yours doesn’t have the small ‘S’ or the ‘TR’ etc. One well used example used as a demonstrator at Warminster has clearly been linished clean but just a faint trace of the little ‘S’ is visible that seems to bear this out. Don't forger, a slight step where the barrel protrudes out of the fore-end WITHOUT the hamer forged snakeskin finish is a chordal rifled post 1979-ish barrel"

PIC courtesy of "Jeff Fenge"
(Click PIC to Enlarge)

7. Are there people out there who love things still in wrappers? Here is a photo montage of two un-issued 1973 L42A1 scope tins "Telescope Straight Sighting, Cased L1A1". It shows one still sealed in it's packaging and one opened but still with packaging, showing contents included new carry sling. ....... (Feedback by "Valleysniper") Valleysniper's Web Site (click here)

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

]]> MKL Featured Entry of the Month (READ ONLY) Badger http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=13528 1916 ShtLE (Short Lee-Enfield) No.1 MkIII* Sniper Rifle http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=12070&goto=newpost Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:09:15 GMT July 2009 - Featured Milsurp Knowledge Library Entry of the Month

Extracted from "England - Milsurp Knowledge Library"

1916 ShtLE (Short Lee-Enfield) No.1 MkIII* Sniper Rifle
c/w Winchester A5 (5 Power) Offset Scope
(Mfg by RSAF Enfield)

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

Quote:

Caliber: ....................... .303 in., Mk VII Ammo
Rifling & Twist: .............. 5 Groove, Enfield, Left Hand Twist
Barrel Length: ............... 25.2 in (640 mm)
Overall Length: ............. 44.5 in (1130 mm)
Weight: ........................ 9.3lb.(4.2 kg) (unloaded)
Magazine Capacity: ....... 10 rounds (magazine loaded)
Converted by: ............... Whitehead Bros.
Approval Date: .............. May 4th, 1915
Scope: .......................... Winchester A5 (5 Power) (British Military War Dept Marked)
Qty Mfg: ....................... 907

Source: ....................... The Lee-Enfield Story by Ian Skennerton (1993) - ISBN: 185367138X

Canadian Collector Market Value Estimate: $

1916 ShtLE No.1 MkIII* Sniper Rifle

(240 picture virtual tour)

Observations:
Note: Pics of rifle provided courtesy of MILSURPS.COM member ~Angel~.

Check for "all matching" serial numbers underneath the forestock, on the nose cap, rear sight, receiver, barrel and bolt handle. The rifle shown in the virtual tour is correctly serial number matched and in addition, is equipped with the correct Winchester (5 power) offset telescope marked with the "British Broad Arrow" and inspector's stamps, indicating acceptance for military service. Also shown is the original A5 scope case, also correctly marked with the "British Broad Arrow" and inspector's stamps. These conversions were carried out by Whitehead Bros. company and they did a total of 907 rifles.

Collector's Comments and Feedback:

1. The rifle displayed in our on-line photo pictorial came from the estate of the late Hon. Robert Bonner, LL.B. (September 10, 1920 — August 12, 2005).

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

Bonner was a Canadian lawyer, politician, and corporate executive. He pursued his career working in the British Columbia government and in B.C.-based companies.

Bonner was born and raised in Vancouver, and served with the Seaforth Highlanders in Italy in the Second World War. Upon his return to Canada, Bonner took a law degree from the University of British Columbia in 1948, and joined a practice in Vancouver. Active in politics from an early age, Bonner became a supporter and confidant of W.A.C. Bennett, who would go on to lead the Social Credit Party to victory in the 1952 provincial election. To the surprise of many, Bennett appointed the unelected, 32 year-old Bonner as the province's Attorney General — the youngest in B.C.'s history. Bonner would be elected to represent the riding of Vancouver-Point Grey in the provincial election of 1953, which was also the first Social Credit majority government in the province. He would retain the position of Attorney General for the next sixteen years, quickly becoming one of the most powerful ministers and closest advisors to Bennett in the Socreds' long spell of governance.

Bonner left provincial politics in 1968 to become vice-president of MacMillan Bloedel, a Vancouver-based logging and lumber company. He would later go on to become the firm's president and chief executive officer. Bonner left Mac Blo in 1976 to become chairman of BC Hydro, the provincial crown corporation responsible for producing and supplying hydroelectric power. He retired from that position in 1985.

Bonner died in Vancouver in 2005. (Feedback by "Badger")

2. Note the large dent shown in the side of the forestock in a few of the pics of the photo virtual tour. At first glance it appears to be wood damage from some kind of impact, when it reality, it actually indicates that the stock of this rifle was from old supplies that had already been cut-out, in preparation for installing the front volley sight. By the time this rifle had been manufactured in 1916, the use of front and rear volley sights on No.1 rifles had been discontinued. (Feedback by "Badger")

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

3. The Lee-Enfield Story by Ian Skennerton (1993) - ISBN: 185367138X is an excellent general reference book on the evolution of Lee-Enfield rifles, however, it doesn't go into great detail on their use as sniper rifles. Ian Skennerton published an earlier 266 page work in 1983 called The British Sniper (British & Commonwealth Sniping & Equipments 1915-1983) - ISBN 0 949749 03 6. For anyone wanting a lot more detail research with pictures covering the evolution of sniping, this is an excellent supplement to his later work. It is out of print, so I'd suggest you use a "Google" search on the title to see if you can find a copy from one of the rare used book sources on the Internet. I found my copy on eBay. ....... (Feedback by "Badger")

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

4. For anyone wanting to get a sense of what it was like to train and operate as a sniper during the Great War 1914-1918, a must read is Sniping in France 1914-18 by Major H. Hesketh-Prichard DSO, MC. ISBN: 1874622477. This is a highly interesting read and discusses the use of tactics, equipment, training methods and the creating of the first official sniper training school for British forces. To realize that their engagement ranges for early SMILE and Pattern sniper rifles with Winchester A5, Aldis and Periscopic Prism scopes was between 200 and 400 meters (average distance between trenches) is fascinating, when we think about modern military sniper engagements today starting at 600 meters and going out to 2,000 meters with heavy caliber rifles. It is out of print, so I'd suggest you use a "Google" search on the title to see if you can find a copy from one of the rare used book sources on the Internet. I found my copy on Amazon.com. ....... (Feedback by "Badger")

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

5. The following is an excellent 110 page research article for anyone interested in sniping during the Great War. ..... (Feedback by "Badger")

Quote:

"Making Their Mark"
Canadian Snipers and the Great War 1914-1918
by Leslie P. Mepham (1997)

(Click PIC to read and save Adobe PDF File)
(Right Click on PIC and choose "Save Target As..." to download PDF file)

6. With reference to the correct A5 Winchester scopes used on the No.1 MkIII* Sniper Rifle:

In any of the books, to the best of my knowledge is that they fall into two distinct sub-groups in terms of markings: Many bear the EFD examiners marks as shown in other responses, but in my limited experience (I've owned about ten of these scopes over the years, & have corresponded with other collectors), if the examiners mark is present then the serial number of the rifle it was fitted to will not be marked on the scope tube. Other scopes, however, bear an obvious SMLE serial number engraved prominently onto the upper surface of the scope tube (but have no examiners mark or broad arrow on the rings). Often the paint has not survived over the years, but the serial number engraving was originally filled with red paint. I've never seen an A5 that bore both the examiners marks AND a SMLE serial no on the tube. They either seem to have one or the other. About ten years ago I wrote a little a article for Ian Skennerton's 'Collector' Magazine on WW1 British & Commonwealth sniping equipment. It is fairly basic, but is illustrated & still remains pertinent to the best of my knowledge. Please feel free to email me (click here) off forum if you think I may be able to help further. ATB ....... (Feedback by "Roger Payne") ]]> MKL Featured Entry of the Month (READ ONLY) Badger http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=12070 1944 C No.7 .22 Caliber Lee-Enfield Training Rifle http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=10617&goto=newpost Sun, 31 May 2009 11:46:41 GMT June 2009 - Featured Milsurp Knowledge Library Entry of the Month

Extracted from "Canada - Milsurp Knowledge Library"

1944 C No.7 .22 Caliber Lee-Enfield Training Rifle
(Serial # 0L6064- Mfg by Long Branch, Canada)

"All Matching Serial Numbers"
"c/w 1946 transit chest, cleaning rod, jags, bore brush, DND ammo & small bore targets "

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

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Caliber: ....................... .22 in. (LR)
Rifling & Twist: ............. 6 Groove, Right Hand Twist
Barrel Length: .............. 25.2 in. (640mm)
Overall Length: ............ 44.5 in. (1130mm)
Weight: ....................... 8 lb. 15 oz. (4.0kg)
Magazine Capacity: ...... Single Shot
Qty Mfg: ...................... Estimated at 20,000+

Source: .... The Lee-Enfield Story by Ian Skennerton (1993) - ISBN: 185367138X

Canadian Market Value Estimate: $700-$1500 for a pristine rifle in it’s transit chest and complete with it’s EIS.
The non-factory versions will range in price from about $550 to asking prices nearing $900.

1944 C No.7 .22 Caliber Lee-Enfield Training Rifle

(123 picture virtual tour)

Observations: by MILSURPS.COM Advisory Panel Member "Stencollector"
Note: Rifle provided courtesy of MILSURPS.COM member ~Angel~.

Most militaries manufactured or modified their current issue rifle with a .22 caliber counterpart, primarily for use on indoor ranges and as a cost saving measure. In this way, the operating drills could be practiced along with the principles of marksmanship. Prior to the introduction of the no4mk1 rifle in Canadian service (Circa 1941/42) the no2mkIV rifle served this purpose. Basically it was a no1mkIII rifle modified to .22 caliber, and in Canadian service, had a Ross type rear sight attachment.

To mirror the no4mk1* rifle, Small Arms Ltd (SAL) began to manufacture, in 1944, a .22 caliber version. It’s designator was no7mk1, which was later changed to Cno7mk1. The rifle was essentially the same as the no4mk1*, with a few minor differences. The newly made (not sleeved) .22 caliber barrel omitted the locking lugs for the bayonet and the corresponding lugs for the indexing of the front sight assembly, which was pinned into place. The rear aperture sight was graduated for 20 and 100 yards and had a windage adjustment. The bolt contained a 2 piece firing pin to allow for the offset rimfire required along with an appropriate extractor. Bolt heads were available in 6 sizes ranging from 0 to 5. The “22” marked magazine housing had a platform in it which acted as a loading guide and allowed the spent cases to drop into the shell of the magazine. The Canadian no7 rifle, unlike it’s magazine fed British counterpart, was a single shot manually fed rifle. Lastly, a target swivel, the same as that installed on a “T” sniper rifle, was installed just forward of the magazine on the king screw. An interesting anomaly of the target swivel is that many Cno7s can be found with the small action cover attaching loop, located between the magazine and the target swivel, missing. They are likely broken off by the rotation of the target swivel.

The receivers of the rifles were purpose built for the 22 caliber version. Besides the different nomenclature on the left sidewall, they had a small threaded hole on the right side for the attachment of the rear sight windage detent spring. On the left side rear, the body had a small index mark which would align with the windage graduations on the rear sight cross screw. On the underside of the Knoxform of the early production (1944) receivers, the numbers 22 usually be found. Later receivers omitted this but would usually have a large 1S stamped under the wrist. The forestock must be removed from the rifle to view these markings.

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The nomenclature on the side of the rifles changed during the first 3 years of production. Early receivers, primarily dated 1944 but occasionally found dated 1945, were engraved:

.22”
LONG BRANCH
1944

This marking is referred to in collectors circles as the type 1 marking.

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During 1945 the nomenclature changed slightly, and was roll stamped (vice the earlier engraving):

No 7 .22 IN.,MKI
LONG BRANCH
1945

This marking is referred to in collectors circles as type 2.

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Later in 1945 and through to 1946, the marking was slightly changed to what is referred to in collectors circles as the type 3 marking:

C No7, .22IN.,MK.I
LONG BRANCH
1946

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Interesting variations to the above markings occur when earlier type 1 receivers were upgraded to the later markings. Sometimes it was done by engraving, and sometimes by stamping. Some examples are:

NO7.22”IN.Mkl
LONG BRANCH
1944

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C No7, .22”. MK.1
LONG BRANCH
1944

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Initially the rifles were produced in a batch of 20,000 by SAL (which changed to Canadian Arsenals Limited (CAL) very soon after the war) so serial number rationalization will fall between 0L1 to 0L9999, then 1L0001 to a high of 2L0000. There were also some smaller runs of the Cno7 rifle in the Korean war period. Examples of these observed show the serial numbers to be consecutive with the Cno4mk1* rifles then produced, somewhere in the 9XLXXXX range.

Finish on the early 1944 examples are usually a gloss very deep blue/black, while later production rifles were a matt black finish.

During the 1950s, many Cno7 rifles were stripped down into parts by the Canadian military and the serviceable items were returned in to stores. The receivers were burnished of their serial numbers, resulting in a slight flat spot in that area, and the finish in the area was touched up. While some of these receivers will have been used over the years to repair damaged rifles in service, many more were either sold as surplus or liberated from the DND. As of year 2000, the DND still held approx 500 receivers in this condition. Enterprising individuals would often assemble Cno7 rifles from parts, and stamp new serial numbers in to the receivers. Sometimes they knew enough to use a serial number in the right range of production for the year of receiver, but quite often the rifles would be serialized to whatever number happened to be on the No4 bolt handle used in the assembly. Some of these post factory rifles can be found with serial numbers well beyond the 2L0000 mark, and even with Savage or British numbers stamped in to them. These “garage workshop” assembled rifles are often lacking in the quality controls which include un-indexed barrels, improper head spacing, and poor stocking up conditions. As a guide, proper serial number rationalization can be broken up into the following years:

1944: 0L1 to 0L7000
1945: 0L6000 to 1L2000
1946: 1L0500 to 2L0000

These are a rough guide only. While they exceed annual production numbers quoted by Skennerton in “The Enfield Story”, they take in to account some observed examples of unaltered factory rifles along with the likelihood that receiver production exceeded annual assembly.

The “L” in the serial number was for Long Branch, the place where these rifles were produced. It was the practice for North American Commonwealth arms production, beginning during 1941, that the letter indicated the place of production. Other letters found on North American made commonwealth firearms include “T” for Toronto (Inglis), C for Chicopee Falls (Stevens-Savage), and W for Walkerville (Border City Industries).

The Cno7s were issued with a wooden chest similar to the no15 sniper rifle chest, but a few inches smaller in height. Besides the rifle, the chest would contain the items from the Equipment Issue Scale (EIS) no 3023, which consisted of a cleaning rod with bristle brush attached, a wire brush, a jag, and a loop attachment, the sling and an oil bottle. The rifle could be issued with any of the 4 available butt sizes and would be marked on the end of the chest. Originally the chests were painted a matt khaki, but most were repainted and remarked to the semi gloss olive green during the 50s and 60s.

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Most chests will have the makers mark (an intertwined VC) on the right end bottom, along with a date, but often this area has been damaged.

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These pics are of the transit chest belonging to the 1944 C No.7 .22 Caliber Lee-Enfield Training Rifle depicted in the photo pictorial above.

Approximate value of the Cno7s will vary. Generally, a complete factory rifle will range between $700 for a well used example to about $1500 for a pristine rifle in it’s transit chest and complete with it’s EIS. The non-factory versions will range in price from about $550 to asking prices nearing $900.

After 60 years, the Cno7 rifle still serves in the Canadian Forces, primarily as a cadet training rifle, although with the closures of most indoor DND ranges, along with the general anti-gun climate in Canada, many have been withdrawn from cadet units in the past decade. In keeping with the Canadian forces policy of disposal of small arms and their components, the remaining Cno7 rifles in DND inventory are destined for teardown into basic parts (in support of the Rangers, who still use the no4 rifles which can use many of the Cno7 parts), a few to military museums, and the remaining rifles and components will be smelted. Releases of original rifles are rumored to be of only a couple batches during the early 1960s, consisting of 200 or 300 rifles each, along with some individual releases through various unit shooting clubs.

Collector's Comments and Feedback:

1. Good day. I read your article on the Canadian CNo7 rifle and noted a not often known fact that lead to a mistake in your information about the No7 rifle. You stated that the CNo7 rifles were equipped with the T sniper sling swivel and that some of the canvas cover loops maybe broken off due to over turning the loop. The fact is --that many people do not know--and I am not belittling you or your well presented article/post. But forward it on in the interest of furthering our Enfield knowledge.

Firstly-- the No4T sniper sling swivel was equipped with a longer shaft on the swivel itself that allowed full rotation of the swivel itself without catching on the cover loop.

Secondly-- the later target swivels from Parker Hale had a shorter attaching stud shaft and therefore would not be able to swivel on the mounting shaft/stud, without catching the cover loop.

For this reason it is a small issue but one can assess the originality of at least one item on a No4T, if the sling swivel clears the loop we have an original sniper swivel. If it does not, move on and check all other items on the sniper to assess whether or not the claim that may have been made that the rifle is original. One piece not an original piece of equipment to the T rifles does not mean that the rest of the rifle will not be but it raises the question of whether or not a certain rifle was assembled from parts due to the value of these rifles now-a-days or whether it is an all original rifle. So many people do not know this little detail. They advertise their T rifle as all original when in fact the rifle was a bitster or a restoration from a sported sniper.

I do not know however whether the Canadian CNo7 rifles came with the original (high) sniper swivel, or whether they were equipped with the PH target swivel. It is possible that people think the No7's came with the T swivel when in fact they did originally come with the NONE --T-- swivel manufactured by Parker Hale, with the shorter target swivel shaft. .............. Feedback by "terryinvictoria"

2. With reference to terryinvictoria's comments, his feedback mostly concerns the design of "original" T sniper target swivels. I would counter by pointing out that on checking the Canadian ordnance parts list, both the Canadian No.4(T) sniper rifle and the Cno7 .22 rifle share the same sling swivel. The NSN is 1005-21-103-1202, and the reference number is DD(E)3699. While I am not in a position to argue with or against Terry's points with reference to the sling swivels used on British rifles, as I have only had a half dozen or so of these on which to compare, I would suggest that in Canadian service, the swivel is the same, and that on both the rifle types in question, the swivel is identical. .............. Feedback by "stencollector"

3. In reference to terryinvictoria's feedback, here's an example of a No.4(T) sling swivel with British government "Broad Arrow" acceptance markings. The sling swivel pictured below does not rotate 360 degrees.

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Interestingly enough, it's the original one that came installed on the 1944 Enfield No.4 Mk1(T) Sniper Rifle (click here) from Captain Peter Mason's "4 Commando" unit that is featured in the England - Milsurp Knowledge Library (click here).

In addition, the target sling swivel on the 1944 C No.7 .22 Caliber Lee-Enfield Training Rifle featured in this knowledge library thread, also does not rotate 360 degrees, as shown in the pics of it below.

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This information got me curious, so I went on a hunting expedition through ~Angel~'s Enfield collection and dug out ten (10) No.4(T) sniper rifles, all dating between 1944 and 1945, which included a Canadian Long Branch. Only one (1) was equipped with a target sling swivel that rotated 360 degrees. As shown in the pics below, it also happens to be the only one that's marked "Parker Hale - Made on England" and it has no British government "Broad Arrow" acceptance markings at all.

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(Click PIC to Enlarge)

My Conclusions?

Well, I have to say that the follow up research I've done on the sampling of ten No.4(T)'s and three (3) C No.7 .22 training rifles, seems to support stencollector's original conclusions in his article above, where he stated "Lastly, a target swivel, the same as that installed on a “T” sniper rifle, was installed just forward of the magazine on the king screw. An interesting anomaly of the target swivel is that many Cno7s can be found with the small action cover attaching loop, located between the magazine and the target swivel, missing. They are likely broken off by the rotation of the target swivel.

We'd be interested in hearing from anyone else with empirical data who could shed some more light on this. .............. Feedback by "Badger"

4. I was just reading this Knowledge Library entry page and I came across the "feedback" by "terryinvictoria" about the king screw sling swivel. Sadly he is incorrect. The only swivels which clear the action cover loop are aftermarket produced, ala "Parker Hale".

I do have some military issue swivels which clear the loop, but they are specifically for the Australian HT. These were a straight copy (or unmarked variant) of the common swivel used in Australia on their "range rifles" pre-WWII, and subsequently militarized during the war.

I obtained my samples from "Vulch" on the old Gun & Knife and Gunboards forums. I'm sure "terryinvictoria" also obtained a sample from the same source, and ascribed it's features to all military swivels. In the Ts & No7s (5) immediately to hand none have swivels which clear the loop.

Strangely enough, Peter Laidler addressed this exact subject in relation to the No4T and L42 on Jouster some weeks ago. .............. Feedback by "Lee Enfield"

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]]> MKL Featured Entry of the Month (READ ONLY) Badger http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=10617