Had intended to enter this little bolt action in the Milsurps Competition, but it turns out that there will be a little more trigger time before entering.

We were astounded by how well the rifle shot, what with it's crude finish, fitting, basic sights, and crunchy, heavy trigger.

However, it turns out it wasn't quite regulated for the ammo selected. And the AK sight tool in the range bag was non-functional because the front sight turning spanner had it's ears broken away some time ago. Only after the few targets were shot did I realize there was a tool kit in the buttstock, complete with sight tool...:madsmile:

The nice thing about this rifle is that it's reliable with a tight bolt turn down and well thought out open sights. It's 1987 vintage for those of you that know when the various changes and improvements to the design were made.





Here's the first four (or was it five?) rounds fired at 25 yards. Not too bad, a perfect hunting zero, but shooting for center is a problem on the small Milsurps targets!

Best I could do, holding slightly above center of mass:




Target #1


Target #2 Figured it out, it seems, on the last two shots...

But what's weird are the 50 and 100 yard targets:





The 50 M setting was pretty close, but the 100 M setting group was way low! Maybe the ammo? It surely groups well at 100, but previous shoots were remembered as being better regulated at each distance. Admittedly, that might have been with a different rifle...

At any rate, you will likely be seeing more of this one.
:wave:

Ivan the Terrible is still awesome after 70 years:

Attachment 42994

The white spot is 2 cm in diameter.
Ivan's sub-MOA intrinsic accuracy plus my PWF is still only just over 1 MOA (center to center). Rifle and ammo are pretty well perfect, the shooter less so. If we can manage this in competition, we'll beat a lot (most?) of the modern plastic stuff.

And before someone asks - yes it was with the original PU scope. At 100 meters. Off a sandsack. And the range scale drum reads a whisker over 1(00). And no, I have not zeroed it, I haven't got the courage (or foolishness?) to fiddle with such a good setup.

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Took the Garand to the range on Saturday. The "paper target" stands were occupied, with a queue lasting into Sunday - that's what happens when the temperature finally gets above freezing!

So I had to use one of the "electronic target" stands - and the printer was out. Literally - I could not find it. As a result, I pasted patches onto a couple of old targets to show where the shots landed. In each white circle there is the shot number and the electronic score.

Cineshot
Attachment 42446

Hornady Light Magnum
Attachment 42445

PRVI
Attachment 42447

I now have first results for 3 different types of 150gn ammo. All good, and if you make an overlay of all three groups, it is clear that the Garand could use a 1/2 minute correction to the left - which is not possible with the standard horizontal sight correction, so I shall be looking for a complete NM sight assembly.

I checked the head clearance (NOT gauge headspace) by the usual method, and the result was less than 0.1mm - less than 0.004" - which is about the measurement limit for this method. And the Cineshot ammo places the bullet 0.4mm (0.016") off the lands - excellent. The working of the brass is so small that neck-sized reloads can be chambered with no apparent problems.
Amazingly good for a 70-year old rifle.:dancingbanana:

My next trial will be to imitate the Cineshot ammo, but reduce the powder charge until the self-loading starts to become erratic, then continue at a level that ensures reliable operation. It's not wanting to save a couple of grains of powder, but rather to save my shoulder!

Watch this space!

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Well I decided to test my recent M4gery build on paper, and get it dialed in "dead on" POA/POI at 250 yards with the red dot. I was on patrol day shift in the mountains today, on overtime, so it was a perfect opportunity.

I measured off 60 yards (according to my ballistic calculator, 60 yards = 250 yards POA/POI with the red dot on the carry handle mount, 3.5" above bore). I used the open passenger door of the Jeep with the window rolled down as a rest. The target was an M1 Carbine 25 yard sight in target, which was perfect size to have the red dot show black all around at that range. I think the red dot is about 3 MOA, as it covered less than half of the 3" carbine bullseye at 60 yards).

After several "sighters" to fine tune, I got two amazing groups: 7/8" and 1" at 60 yards, or probably less than 2" at 100 yards. I have never gotten that good of a group with a red dot on an AR platform in my life! It doubly amazes me, considering my only rest was standing, leaning on an open Jeep door! I like this weapon!



Ammo used: Federal/Lake City M193, late production.

Weapon:
DPMS 16" M4 barrel, 1/9 twist, with a Wilson Combat comp on it.
Colt M16A2 upper and bolt carrier group
Stag Arms lower with a Colt SP1 early lower parts kit
H buffer and USGI M4 recoil spring
Magazines are USGI Parson's with new springs and Magpul followers.
Vintage Tasco "Accupoint" red dot scope. This is the predecessor of Tasco's current "Propoint" scopes, which are used heavily in the mid-west and south on shotguns for deer hunting.



As you can see, it is Kalifornicating compliant with no "evil features," (Hammerhead non-pistol grip, pinned stock and comp instead of flash hider) so I can use my pre-2000 possessed high capacity magazines. Oh well, we do what we have to, so that we can do what we need to!

I have a Mint "Unfired" L42A1 , recently i have been shooting my Enfield No4T,s and very much enjoying the experience.

I decided it was time to try the L42 as i had always heard they had a superb reputation for accuracy. Last weekend i started some load development using various Seirra match projectiles and powders from Alliant, ADi. Not to bad with some loads getting 1 MOA, but i knew it could be better.
I remembered from some of my 308 loading from years ago i used to use Win 748 with great success. So i used 748 with the "old" Sierra 155HPBT, groups were around 3/4 and some 1/2 MOA.

Today i used 748 and the "New" 155 Palma with Win 748...... myself and a friend shot the old girl at 200mtrs..... We were both "stunned" to achieve several 1/4 MOA groups!!!! Having 2 people achieve the same results is awesome as it dispells the "you got lucky bit"

And remember you are looking through 3.25X optics.....its very hard..

My friend who shot one of the groups shoots a Sako TRG42, he was amazed as i was that the old L42 could achieve such excellent results..

So glad i decided to use the old girl, its been a revelation seeing what can be achieved by Old Vintage rifles.. :)

Hope you like the pics..

Here are the results for several of my military rifles. All shooting was done at 200 yards outside using the bed cover of my truck as a rest. The X ring is 2.5" across:

L39A1 with iron sights. Three types of ammo: M852 at 12 o'clock, M118LR at 2 o'clock and M118 at 5 o'clock



K31 using GP11 ammo



1898 Krag Rifle using a Speer 180 grain RN (.312" dia.) over 42 grains of IMR4350. Group is at 6 o'clock. The group to the right is with a 174 grain Sierra Match King with the same powder charge.

It was a beautiful day, 60+ degrees, light wind, and almost empty range. Just finished cleaning up my ’43 Tula sniper, so I thought let’s see what it can do. WELL it can do a lot better than I can. At 50 yards I was only about 3 inches to the right and low, with both wheels set to 0. I turned the elevation up to 1, and about 2.5 marks to the -. Next 3 shots were close enough to center for me, so I tried it out on a 8” shoot-N-see at 100yards. A little playing here and there and I think I found the SWEET SPOT.
Like I said it shoots better than I can. I did manage to get this respectful 5 shot group. Let me know what you think.

I went with a friend to check loads and dial ups for a 1000 yard F Class match so I took my T along for the ride. Dialed up to 10 and was high dialed to 9 1/2 and struck the large gong on the second shot. 42 grains Rel 15 and 174 SMK. Was such a kick shooting at that distance. My favorite 30-06 in the backround and the T in front. Warm weather with light and variable wind what fun.

Attachment 40702Attachment 40703

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Milsurp Target Competition and Shoot (2013)

A new addition this year is the .22 comp/shoot at 25/50 yds/mtr please see the bottom of this thread,


A world wide Milsurp Target competition/shoot, open to all Milsurps members, its not so much a competition but to see how each Milsurp rifle shoot.

There are many competitions we can't get to or would like to take part in but are sometimes the wrong date, place, time, also the categories may be not for our choice of milsurp, example being a WW1 Milsurp comp, its ok if you have a dated rifle but for someone who may be out that date range then it becomes a bit of a pain.



It’s a basic comp with minimum rules and it's based on KISS, ( keep it simple stupid)

Any Milsurp Rifle as issued or in line with the categories listed, common sense will tell you what one.

Any desired position prone, bench, (standing if it really floats your boat !)

Sling, or rest of any description, but as it’s a milsurp NO bipod unless it was issued with it.

The Distance is a 100 mtrs/ 100 yrds, as I would think most can get to a 100 mtr range, whatever corner of the world you are in.

The ammo is up to the individual, home made. Factory, jacketed, cast etc, its your rifle you decide.

Categories

1. Any action Milsurp as issued, with original iron sights. (as issued I mean as the rifle would have been, some of us may of changed wood or a barrel etc, but these must be original items, but the bedding of barrels is also allowed)

2. Same as above, but any iron sights.

3. Same as 1, but with scope, any scope permitted.

4. Open to any converted milsurp, either in Calibre, barrel, any sight, iron or scope and bipod, and this is also for any action, Martini etc…, Semi auto (if your lucky enough to have these in your part of the world) or any Milsurp variant.

5. Any Black powder (Milsurp) this includes any issued or volunteer rifle.

6. Any Military trainer (See bottom of this thread regarding for the .22 25/ 50 yds/mtr comp)

The target will be the PL7 or ISSF target cropped to fit on A4 paper which will enable us all to download and print it at home, or you may produce it to the dimensions as shown and you can put this on a backing target also as to increase the overall size etc for an aiming point. you can have 2ft x 2ft, target if you wish but the centre must be marked with the dimensions below.

Any colour disc or marker would be allowed, again its up to the shooter, If you want to make the target into a tin hat, colour it yellow, red etc, its up to you, as long as the dimensions are standard.

Additional aiming points may be used, to compensate the milsurp rifles that have the rear sight starting at 200, 300. mtrs/yrds etc.

How you manage to get 5 rounds on the target at a 100 mtrs/yrds away is up to you.




The size is as follows:

V bull = 25mm
10 ring = 50mm
9 ring = 100mm
8 ring = 150mm
7 ring = 200mm
6 ring = 250mm
5 ring = 300mm



(Click PIC to Enlarge to FULL size)

Note: After you click on images to ENLARGE them, you may find they automatically size smaller in your browser's window making them smaller than actual size. The auto sizing is your browser's way of keeping images entirely within the screen size you have set. If this happens, you will see a small box in the bottom right hand corner of the pic with four arrows point outwards, or sometimes a small magnifying glass when you move your mouse over the pic itself. Click on either and the pic will EXPAND and open up to its normal size, so you should now be able to print it at full size. It may even print at full size for you from the smaller browser re-sized version, but try it yourself.

For those of you who want the full size target in PDF format ...

(Click HERE to download target in PDF fie format)


Post pic of the card on the thread,

5 shots per card,

2 cards a year per rifle, and can enter as many rifles in each category,

The results will be posted at the end of the year, again its up to you, when you want to shoot

If you are having a good day and want to shoot all cards in one day then no probs, if you want to take part in all six then no worries, all in all common sense and honesty are the two main factors, and of course its meant to be fun, its not about being better than the next man, its what you can do with your Milsurp rifle.

For anyone with a disability and feel they are up to it, but are unsure, then please contact me.

The initial idea was to allow us ( forum Members) from all walks of life to shoot in our own time, way, position with our favourite rifles and show what can be done with an old Milsurp, plus its free and no pressure.

If you looking for gold medals, being carried round in a chair, having free drinks, expect respect and want a book written about you then, I,m sorry to say but this is NOT for you.

If you have an old Enfield, Mauser, Nagant, Springfield, Ross, Schmidt, etc…… and can hit a barn door, the size of a an A4 bit of paper at 100 mtrs then have a go. if not why not try the .22 comp/shoot below 25yds/mtr or 50 yds/mtr

comp/shoot runs between Jan -Dec


Info regarding the .22 comp/shoot 25/50 yds/mtr


This comp was talked about last year, I had a good response so its based the same as the normal categories listed above, except for category 5 this in the .22 comp/shoot will be open to any comercial .22.

In the categories above for the 100 yds/mtr comp category 6 is the smallbore or Military trainers, for anyone shooting the .22, please state category 6 and the category that relates to that .22 rifle,

So it will state 6. and one of the categories below

1. Any action Milsurp as issued, with original iron sights. (as issued I mean as the rifle would have been, some of us may of changed wood or a barrel etc, but these must be original items, but the bedding of barrels is also allowed)

2. Same as above, but any iron sights.

3. Same as 1, but with scope, any scope permitted.

4. Open to any converted milsurp, bigger shorter barrel, any sight, iron or scope and bipod, and this is also for any action, Martini etc…, Semi auto (if your lucky enough to have these in your part of the world) or any Milsurp variant.

5. Any sighted comercial rifle. (this is also for any reprodution type Military.22 rifles available)




So for example, cat 6.2 would be .22 original with a PH site or similar, 6.3 scoped .22 etc....


Targets

The target used is the ISSF target used for air pistols at 10 meters, which should be readily available in most countries, if not the link should give you the correct size target


25 yds/mtr http://www.milsurps.com/attachment.p...9&d=1357933469


50yds/mtr http://www.milsurps.com/attachment.p...0&d=1357933470

All the same as the 100yds/mtr but a mini version, and I,m sure all the poorest of us can scrape up 5 rounds of .22 :lol:

So good shooting and all the best for this year.

Well since my last post I shot a club Ordnance match and decided to go with an issue 1913 CG Swede M96 I had worked up a load for. It was best string of ten from a bench at 200yds w/ iron sights. After the first string, the rifle came to life. Ended up w/ first place. There was prize money but that was the furthest thing from my mind. It was about having fun!

Having shot a bunch of WW2 snipers in an effort to determine what was the best(or at least potentially the most accurate with good ammo) sniper of WW2, I have fired about 40 Soviet snipers, most were PUs. I am leaning heavily toward the PU as being the best, which was a surprise. I am also pretty convinced that if all factors are considered, such as cost, impact to the war, simplicity, number used, ruggedness, optics, impact on the war, accuracy, etc. that the PU is pretty clearly the winner.

Accuracy being a biggie, here are a few recent results from a fresh refurb import PU from IO/Molot. This is not about my ability but the rifle's capability, as I am not the worlds best shot. I used quality ammo(Extra Match), a bench rest with bag at the butt in an attempt to minimize the human factor.

This rifle did receive a half barrel wrap near the front barrel band, an addition well known to Soviet shooters to help stabilize barrel harmonics. Most often the entire barrel is wrapped but some rifles prefer top 180 degree pressure instead and original rifles with either can be encountered.

This rifle was a 43 Tula and was refurbed, then put in storage. Of the first 6 groups fired after zeroing the average group was 1.12 inches, five shots at 100 yds. Three groups of the six were sub MOA.

Included also is a group fired from a 1942 ex-PEM, which is the best group I have gotten out of a Soviet sniper(or any WW2 sniper for that matter) at less than 0.4 MOA. This helps show what they can do on their best day with good ammo. It also helps support what I believe, and many of us who shoot these a lot, being that ex-snipers were not all made ex-snipers because they were worn out.

Looks like I have some picture resizing to do and will edit post.

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I shot the Finnish M39 at 100 yards with Czech 180gr 1956 heavy ball. I had to crank the sight up to 500 yards to hit at 100 yards. I'm happy with the surplus ammo and accuracy.

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