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In my quest to get a representative rifle from each of the major powers, I just realized I forgot all about Turkey in WWI.
What would be the best representative model rifle for Turkey during WWI? I expect many were upgraded so what should I look for?
The
would be the Turkish Model 1903 rifle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aragorn243
This is a Gew. 98 variant, with a simple nose cap with bayonet lug projecting downwards. No lock screws on the trigger guard screws. Do not confuse with the post-WW1 model 98/22, which you are most likely to see. This has the long-profile style of 98 nosecap.
The Turkish rifles were hammered through the 1911-12 war with Italy, First and Second Balkan wars, WW1, Turkish War of Independence, and WW2. Over here the Turkish rifles are worn out and usually cheap, unless with a good "tughra". "Upgrades" and mixmasters abound. So beware of the usual purveyors of "mint" rifles from "a previously undiscovered cache". The fresher it looks, the more likely that it has been cobbled together from refinished bits.
:wave:
PAtrick
You will need a 8mm M1903 Model. They have the high clip guides and are not so easily found. The very common rifle is the Model 1938. It is a rather common Turk and will be seen at all big gunshows. The early M1903's are harder to find, but keep looking. Patrick: I saw a mint M1903 in Paris, France at the National Army Museum. Captured at Gallippoli, it looked very much like an Argentine Mauser in fit and finish.
Turkish rifles in general are cheap here as well. They are also usually in pretty bad shape, commonly among the worst looking surplus rifles I run into. That's one of the reasons I never gave them much consideration until now when I realized my error in not including Turkey as a major power. Now with my luck, I won't run into another one for years. I looked up the M1903 model in my Mauser book so I know what to look for now. Thanks. Anyway, I tend to stay away from "mint" rifles as I can't afford them so no worries there. A guy at a local flea market had one sitting there all last summer but he hasn't been there yet this year. No idea what model it was and it wasn't as beat up as most.
The Turkish rifle that exemplifies WW1 is the Enfamauser. A mauser made from an Enfield captured at Gallipoli. Mine was a gift. gary
Aragorn,
For a nice rifle, I would look for the Gewehr98 from the Oberndorff factory. O had a large contract with the Turk, starting during the war and continuing right up until the Treaty shut them down. The later examples tend to have slipped a bit in the finish departnment, but they are really good rifles. Mine (a 1919) is in good shape and will shoot right with the typical Swede mauser.
jn
I need a Gew98 to represent Germany. I assume the Turkish versions would have Turkish markings? I had my sights on a Gew98 at my local gun auction but they bid the thing up to almost $1400 and I have no idea why, it wasn't in that good of shape. I had it figured in the $300-$400 range. There are some real idiots with a lot of money to burn at this auction, especially because Peterson's lists them at $800 for one in top of the line condition and this one was far from that.
[quote=Aragorn243;223910]I had my sights on a Gew98 at my local gun auction but they bid the thing up to almost $1400 and I have no idea why, it wasn't in that good of shape. I had it figured in the $300-$400 range. [quote]
I agree. Just be patient, and keep your eyes open in all directions. In the end, it all turns up - you just have to avoid the "I want one right now" urge.
What I need to avoid is that auction. But I keep punishing myself and going every month and then wishing I had that morning back when it's all over. I can't even get bayonets there anymore as some knucklehead is bidding them way up now.
I did get my Arisaka there so it isn't ALL bad, just mostly.
Aragorn,Quote:
Originally Posted by Aragorn243
My Oberndorff is marked as such on the receiver crest,
"A crescent moon"
Waffenfabrik
Mauser A-G
Oberndorf a/m
1918
Attachment 34309
I guess I was wrong about it being from 1919 production. It also has a tiny Imperial Eagle stamped on the left side of the receiver.
I'm thinking this rifle passed through german military hands before being sent off to Turkey. It looks as if it was never issued, but it did sit in an arsenal somewhere acquiring a patina.
Attachment 34310
The relationship between the Turks and their German "advisors" was a little touchy at times. Toward the end of the War Enver Pasha put together a Muslim Legion for which infidels were excluded. The plan was to liberate central Asia and bring all the Turkic-speaking people into a greater Turkey.
Things got pretty weird, especially in the fighting around Baku in late 1918. The British and Turks allied themselves against the Soviet Russians and the Germans for about 6 weeks.
jn