Grand Rapids Carbine Handguards Questions

I am hoping that the collective knowledge here can educate me.

I've seen literature that states Irwin-Pedersen carbines only used deep groove handguards.
Also a couple of sources that state S'G' only used shallow groove handguards.

What about the carbines assembled by S'G' from Irwin-Pedersen parts? Like the 3,2xx,xxx mixture of S'G' and Irwin-Pedersen carbines? Did it change from month to month as existing handguards were used?

Is it correct that IR-IP handguards come in deep and shallow groove.

Lots of questions, I know.

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the guidance and transfer of knowledge!

JW,
Your questions are a little tricky to answer. Remember No IP Carbines were accepted by Ordnance, at least until after Saginaw Steering Gear took over operations in Grand Rapids.
Then designated as S'G' any completed, partially completed or salvageable part left over, including IP Receivers or parts deemed acceptable were used. So a IP marked receiver was most likely put together and supplied by S'G'. Put another way: If a IP carbine was accepted it was S'G' that cashed the check.

*Others may have other opinions*.

Handguards made for IP by the Irwins would have been marked IR-IP. Some Handguards reported as being marked IP-IR, but I don't recall seeing one and I have a large collection of HG's. Though I have seen stocks stamped IP-IR.

I've only seen IR-IP Type I Wide / Deep sighting groove HG's.

As far as Saginaw Steering Gear Handguards, be it S'G' or S.G. I've seen both Type I Wide / Deep sighting groove and Type II Narrow / Shallow sight groove with about 3 styles of markings: Small RSG, Small R.S.G. and Larger RSG Letter Markings.

Letter Stamps on Stocks were similar, but with Small, Medium and Larger RSG stamps. Can't recall right now if there was a RSG with periods between the letters.

By 3,2xx,xxx I'd expect to see a Type II HG. But not marked IR-IP or IP-IR (If they did have a Type II). I'd expect to see a Type II with one of the RSG stampings.
My thinking being any IR-IP Handguard would have been used up by then... They are pretty rare.

Maybe others can add opinions or direct us to any documentation.

** Anyone seen a IR-IP or IP-IR Type II Narrow/Shallow sight groove Handguard ?**

Safe Weekend,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by painter777

JW,
Your questions are a little tricky to answer. Remember No IP Carbines were accepted by Ordnance, at least until after Saginaw Steering Gear took over operations in Grand Rapids.
Then designated as S'G' any completed, partially completed or salvageable part left over, including IP Receivers or parts deemed acceptable were used. So a IP marked receiver was most likely put together and supplied by S'G'. Put another way: If a IP carbine was accepted it was S'G' that cashed the check.

*Others may have other opinions*.

Handguards made for IP by the Irwins would have been marked IR-IP. Some Handguards reported as being marked IP-IR, but I don't recall seeing one and I have a large collection of HG's. Though I have seen stocks stamped IP-IR.

I've only seen IR-IP Type I Wide / Deep sighting groove HG's.

As far as Saginaw Steering Gear Handguards, be it S'G' or S.G. I've seen both Type I Wide / Deep sighting groove and Type II Narrow / Shallow sight groove with about 3 styles of markings: Small RSG, Small R.S.G. and Larger RSG Letter Markings.

Letter Stamps on Stocks were similar, but with Small, Medium and Larger RSG stamps. Can't recall right now if there was a RSG with periods between the letters.

By 3,2xx,xxx I'd expect to see a Type II HG. But not marked IR-IP or IP-IR (If they did have a Type II). I'd expect to see a Type II with one of the RSG stampings.
My thinking being any IR-IP Handguard would have been used up by then... They are pretty rare.

Maybe others can add opinions or direct us to any documentation.

** Anyone seen a IR-IP or IP-IR Type II Narrow/Shallow sight groove Handguard ?**

Safe Weekend,

---

Thanks again for your help. I've seen pictures, but it's difficult for me to differentiate between handguard types in pictures with my inexperienced eyes. The Riesch book has a table that has an S'G' row and column with type II IR-IP handguard for early carbines.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by painter777

JW,
Your questions are a little tricky to answer. Remember No IP Carbines were accepted by Ordnance, at least until after Saginaw Steering Gear took over operations in Grand Rapids.
Then designated as S'G' any completed, partially completed or salvageable part left over, including IP Receivers or parts deemed acceptable were used. So a IP marked receiver was most likely put together and supplied by S'G'. Put another way: If a IP carbine was accepted it was S'G' that cashed the check.

*Others may have other opinions*.

Handguards made for IP by the Irwins would have been marked IR-IP. Some Handguards reported as being marked IP-IR, but I don't recall seeing one and I have a large collection of HG's. Though I have seen stocks stamped IP-IR.

I've only seen IR-IP Type I Wide / Deep sighting groove HG's.

As far as Saginaw Steering Gear Handguards, be it S'G' or S.G. I've seen both Type I Wide / Deep sighting groove and Type II Narrow / Shallow sight groove with about 3 styles of markings: Small RSG, Small R.S.G. and Larger RSG Letter Markings.

Letter Stamps on Stocks were similar, but with Small, Medium and Larger RSG stamps. Can't recall right now if there was a RSG with periods between the letters.

By 3,2xx,xxx I'd expect to see a Type II HG. But not marked IR-IP or IP-IR (If they did have a Type II). I'd expect to see a Type II with one of the RSG stampings.
My thinking being any IR-IP Handguard would have been used up by then... They are pretty rare.

Maybe others can add opinions or direct us to any documentation.

** Anyone seen a IR-IP or IP-IR Type II Narrow/Shallow sight groove Handguard ?**

Safe Weekend,

---

I looked at the IR-IP hand guard that I bought from William W Moore a while back. I haven't been able to get a hold of him to ask questions. I measured the thickness on the back part and it was like .13." I looked at an RSG and got .20." I then looked at an R.S.G and also got 0.13."

I always thought R.S.G. handguards were later.
I did see a picture of an S'G' in the 3,2xx,xxx range with an R.S.G. handguard. I believe the barrel date was June 1943. I'll have to check Monday because I'm locked out of my e-mail for now.