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Handloads.com has a huge database of law enforcement shooting data where one shot stops were tabulated for different calibers. In 1,080 shootings, the 110 FMJ M1 Carbine (mostly Mil-Surp, but also commercial Federal and Winchester) resulted in 80% one-shot stops (864). The 110 JSP averaged 88% in 106 shootings!
I have said before, it is an underestimated and under appreciated round. The Winchester 55 grain M193 .223/5.56 only averaged 83%!!!!
30 Carbine Stopping Power
"What is the most dangerous caliber to be shot with?" he replied ".22". I asked why and he said "Because that's what most people are shot with."
I guess my point is: if it hits a big pipe, your brain or you heart, you are dead. Anywhere else and it's just luck.
Thanks for the cool website!
Underestimated and under appreciated surely. The way you posted the data shows a high percentile for the Carbine. But in .223 you only mention Winchester. Using any other on that same chart it goes up into the 91%-94%. So it is highly effective as well.
223 Remington Stopping Power
I think there are very few areas in law enforcement today that would use a Carbine over an AR.
Being on the carbine forum we obviously like this weapon. Though I would think the majority here are not law enforcement. Personal protection, home defense, recreation, and maybe hunting. Tabulated data has so many variables. Intended use should be of first concern. Times and equipment have a way of evolving. Does a Carbine or an AR better fit the scenario. Close quarters, distance, size of target. penetration, tumbling. Some aspire to bigger is better.
All that said I have only two AR's, many more Carbines. But for carry and home I use a .45 acp. :dunno:
Jim, you are right. I knew folks would see that the 223 overall was better (they were on the same page, after all), I just pointed out the Winchester Q3131 as an anomaly. Poorly worde.
My little M1 carbine (as much as I love it) is relegated to standby for home defense since I built my 5 pound, 6 ounce California Featureless AR-15 "KISS" carbine. It has a 16" Colt 1/7 twist "6420 "pencil" barrel. I use MK262 Mod 1, 5.56mm with the 77 grain OTM Sierra Match-King bullet. It is devastating and has about 99% 1 shot stops with Special forces types using it in SPRs and 11.5 inch MK12s in Afghanistan. That doesn't mean I appreciate the M1 Carbine any less, it just means the AR15 is a better tool sometimes.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...81547875-1.jpg
The AR has many advantages over the carbine. Not the least being that you can just point, shoot and it will hit out to 200 yds. No windage or elevation required. That and almost no recoil means easy to use. I use to have a built in bias for the AR probably because I qualified expert with the M14 and like wood and the sights. But if I was going into a gunfight today, I'd grab either a 1911 or the AR. I never liked the sights and having to stick your pumpkin up too far to use them, but it is a fine effective weapon. I'd call the carbine a handy, light weapon. If I'm hiking in the woods out in nowhere, the carbine with one 15 rd is my first choice.
Dave, you are right. An M1 with a 15 in the weapon and two 15s in the stock pouch is incredibly handy and light. While my KISS AR carbine would be close weight wise (though still heavier with two 20s), it still would be bulkier and not as easy to carry as the M1 Carbine. My Inland feeds R-P 110 soft points flawlessly, especially from a USGI 15 rounder. After all, I did nail a 200 pound deer with a single heart-lung shot from my Carbine at 97 yards!
If the Zombie Apocalypse was happening (HAHAHA, tongue in cheek!), and I was in a fixed position, my red dot optic Saiga AK using my Sapsan 8M3 "fragtastic" 124 Grain HP ammo would be first choice. At about 9.5 pounds with a loaded steel Com-Bloc 30 round mag and red dot scope and mount, though, it is way too heavy to tote around. The M1 Carbine wins again.
Assuming we are not talking about Zombie Apocalypse, why in a self defense situation are you shooting at someone more than 100 yds. away?Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveHH
Ah... Maybe the sneaky Zombies have snipers that need dealt with, or maybe they are going after the livestock in the pasture 200 yards away, to feast on the horses and cattle! LOL. I have always figure 100 yards was my max. Any farther, it is escape and evade!
This is starting to go off topic.
I wonder how that sample of 1033 shootings was selected for "Mil Surplus" ammo. Seems any percent of "one shot stops" you get will be highly dependent upon which 1033 carbine shootings you select, i.e. whether, say, Korea was included, or not