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Hi, I'm looking to get a Winchester 1897 Trench Gun, but being a shotgun I'm not sure what to look for in terms that they are safe. I know with Springfields and Garands, its best to check the bore. But for a shotgun, not sure. Any advice would be helpful
thanks
These guns are so old now, so long since they've been made...I'd give them a pass as a shooter. If you break a part you could be hooped to replace it. If you can find a newer made one, back at the end of production, then all the same rules apply as any other firearm.
Jim, the way I'm understanding this is your saying they shouldn't be fired simply because they're old? So are a lot of other type of firearms we shoot.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
If that's the case then every other rifle, pistol and shotgun out there in the same age bracket or older than the Model 97 should be relegated to wall hanger status based on age alone. Other than being in absolute mint unfired condition there's no really good reason against shooting it, IMO.
Model 97's are a very well made, rugged reliable shotgun that seldom break down and if properly kept up it isn't likely to wear out from normal use, and if/when it does most original parts are still readily available. Other than trenchgun buttstocks and bayo adaptors there's nothing special or different about any of the other parts.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Even those are 60+ years old now.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Not a trenchie but this old 97 was made in 1923 and has probably had about as hard a life as any firearm is likely to be subjected to and still remain functional, cosmetically it's rough as a cob and uglier than a bowling shoe but it's still going strong. I bought it 16-17 years ago from a junk dealer. It in amongst a pile of scrap and I spotted the butt sticking out of the pile and had to literally dig it out form under all the scrap it was buried under. Cost me $100. I cleaned it up, replaced the trigger and forend and it ain't missed a beat since. This photo was taken this past March on the last day of hunting season. Those 6 quail were shot on the covey rise with 5 shells. The last two crossed.
No, that's not really what I'm suggesting, just that there are newer guns available.Quote:
Originally Posted by vintage hunter
That's true of course, but I've had several and they all showed years of long use and they were all less than stellar. Up here we don't have as many to choose from it seems. I've stripped, repaired and refinished many besides the ones I owned. Steve brings out the point about the thumb joint damage you can get even after using these quite a bit. He asked about these and I stand my ground that I'd look at a newer gun for daily use. A '97 trench would be a luxury for me to own and I'd love one but as for a shooter...not me. Too many parts that if you break one, good luck getting one. And yes, I have seen worn or broken parts on them. If he's going to shoot the "Wild bunch" series in cowboy action, he has to have one or something of that era...he hasn't said.Quote:
Originally Posted by vintage hunter
Of course if he just wants a trench for the collecting and occasional shooting, he may do alright. But is he asking what to look for to get an original trench gun? That's another thing...
I use my 1914 97 all the time since my youngest lad took over my go to M500 A. We shoot fox, crows, turkeys squirrels and pretty much anything that moves that don't need steel which was the m500's advantage. We own m12's a5's and a few Browning pump guns. They are stiff to operate without action work, check for a cracked wrist and matching numbers on frame and barrel if a take-down model. Replacing barrels may not be a novice job so just check for a match. Swapping front ends may not be a good idea either and make sure no dents in mag tube. Some say the early ones have a 2 3/4 chamber on the 12 Ga. models which is true but the forcing cone on mine is sharp and starts up to just not tear the crimp to bits which is fine by me but you can verify yours with a 20ga shell inside a 12 Ga. hull and then measure and then check against a chamber gauge the right way. I find mine to be most appropriate for paper hulls but use cheap gun club plastic around the poultry houses because I'm to cheap to lengthen the forcing cone and no holes in pattern at 90'. All machined, mirror bore ,good mag capacity and a frame to fit your clenched hand, wish I had a trench gun for the house. I would not hesitate to use any m97 that passed a basic safety function check and that was in sound mechanical condition. JMO.
I have Winchester M1897's manufactured in 1899, 1906, and 1913, ALL see very hard use every year shooting at least 25 Cowboy Action matches a year using lead shot smaller than #4. My Trench gun is post (?) WW2 manufacture and can still hold its own. Recently our club held a 5 stage, 63 non reactive target match for shotguns. The only ones that beat my 1899 were semi autos.
I think this has gone off topic a little.
Shooting an original real 97 trench is nuts. The guns are just too expensive to risk damage. Recently some have sold for over $10,000
OTOH, an original M97 can certainly be shot, as long as a gunsmith checks it for safety. Being a complex gun, if you shoot it a lot something will break or wear out, but of course most parts are available.
That being said, if anyone has an original riot barrel, PM me. I have a 1957 made riot gun in very nice shape that someone had put a bayonet adapter on, then taken it back off. So now the barrel has grooves on the bottom, and I fear they could be too deep for safety (although at the end of the barrel it really should not matter since you can actually put slots in the end).
---------- Post added at 04:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:49 PM ----------
I think this has gone off topic a little.
Shooting an original real 97 trench is nuts. The guns are just too expensive to risk damage. Recently some have sold for over $10,000
OTOH, an original M97 can certainly be shot, as long as a gunsmith checks it for safety. Being a complex gun, if you shoot it a lot something will break or wear out, but of course most parts are available. NOT the unique trench stocks, adapters and barrels of course.
That being said, if anyone has an original riot barrel, PM me. I have a 1957 made riot gun in very nice shape that someone had put a bayonet adapter on, then taken it back off. So now the barrel has grooves on the bottom, and I fear they could be too deep for safety (although at the end of the barrel it really should not matter since you can actually put slots in the end).
Depends on where you are, for parts availability. This is where I was in the first place, before I was shouted down as heretic...Quote:
Originally Posted by scosgt
There are a number of fine gunsmiths that specialize in the Winchester M97 in Canada and the US, that have no problem finding parts.