Help with Savage No4mk1* with 0C0### serial

Hi all!

I am curious about the lineage of this rifle.
I looked up serial numbers and couldn’t find any mk1*’s with serial 0C0###. Is this an odd one? Or not that rate.

Thanks in advance!

Jon

Pictures here.

https://imgur.com/a/0iIaGs4

That serial is very early for a mk1*

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Originally Posted by jonh172

Hi all!

I am curious about the lineage of this rifle.
I looked up serial numbers and couldn’t find any mk1*’s with serial 0C0###. Is this an odd one? Or not that rate.

Thanks in advance!

Jon

Pictures here.

Imgur: The magic of the Internet

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That certainly appears to be an oddity, normally you won't find any Mk1* in the low serial numbers because the 1st (approximatley) 120,000 rifle Savage produced were No4 Mk1 (without the alteration to the bolt release system) Savage wanted to simplify the manufacture so applied for a derogation to allow them to deviate from the specification.
Despite the fact that this change could result in rifles getting damaged and not loading correctly the permission was granted. Britain never changed over to this 'lower standard' and we kept our manufacturers supplying to the specifications.

My memory is dim, but this rifle has five digits after the C which suggests to me that it isn't an early rifle at all, but a late one. I'm no expert on Savage serials but wasn't it the case that towards the end of production (when they got to a million???) they started again at 0C but with an extra digit to the right of the C in the serial number.............?

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Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield

That certainly appears to be an oddity, normally you won't find any Mk1* in the low serial numbers because the 1st (approximatley) 120,000 rifle Savage produced were No4 Mk1 (without the alteration to the bolt release system) Savage wanted to simplify the manufacture so applied for a derogation to allow them to deviate from the specification.
Despite the fact that this change could result in rifles getting damaged and not loading correctly the permission was granted. Britain never changed over to this 'lower standard' and we kept our manufacturers supplying to the specifications.

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Thanks Alan!

From what little research I did I could not seem to find any logs of Mk1* with 0 after the C, they seemed to all have a number other than 0 so I found this one odd.

I’m wondering if it’s worth restoring??

---------- Post added at 09:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:41 AM ----------

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Originally Posted by Roger Payne

My memory is dim, but this rifle has five digits after the C which suggests to me that it isn't an early rifle at all, but a late one. I'm no expert on Savage serials but wasn't it the case that towards the end of production (when they got to a million???) they started again at 0C but with an extra digit to the right of the C in the serial number.............?

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I think you are correct Roger in that it is a late war produced mk1* and they started over at 0C but the 0 after the C is what’s puzzling.
I may be way off here and it’s perfectly normal, but I couldn’t seem to find any proof the numbers after the C started at 0.
Please let me know your thoughts on this!

It looks like the mk1* program started with serial 0C50000, can anyone corroborate this?

Roger Payne is correct. The rifle in question should have NO YEAR as it is a very late production, likely just before they closed down their No.4 rifle production room line in June 1944. There would be 0C and FIVE numbers after the C. The late Charles R. Stratton covered this in his book “British Enfield Rifles Volume 2 Lee-Enfield No. 4 and No.5 Rifles” “For Collectors Only” page 168. “After 99C, Savage went to an (sic) 0C prefix with a 5-digit number following … highest observed serial number is 0C63036.” (I corrected the error as the books has the letter “O” instead of number “0” shown in both cases before the “C”)

The No.4 Mk.I* made by Stevens-Savage changeover came into production at Stevens-Savage by the 12Cxxxx serial number range. I only track sniper conversion serial numbers, with 12C6308 being the lowest No.4 Mk.I* by Stevens-Savage, so I cannot give a more precise number for the changeover.

I have a 1941 Stevens-Savage, serial number OT820, that was converted to No.4 Mk.I (T) at R.S.A.F. Enfield and has the distinctive R.S.A.F. inspection mark on top of the front scope pad, usually only found on ex-Trials 1931 & 1933 dated rifles converted to No.4 Mk.I (T).

As mentioned, it is a late-production Savage. For some reason you don’t see many around.

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Originally Posted by Seaforth72

Roger Payne is correct. The rifle in question should have NO YEAR as it is a very late production, likely just before they closed down their No.4 rifle production room line in June 1944. There would be 0C and FIVE numbers after the C. The late Charles R. Stratton covered this in his book “British Enfield Rifles Volume 2 Lee-Enfield No. 4 and No.5 Rifles” “For Collectors Only” page 168. “After 99C, Savage went to an (sic) 0C prefix with a 5-digit number following … highest observed serial number is 0C63036.” (I corrected the error as the books has the letter “O” instead of number “0” shown in both cases before the “C”)

The No.4 Mk.I* made by Stevens-Savage changeover came into production at Stevens-Savage by the 12Cxxxx serial number range. I only track sniper conversion serial numbers, with 12C6308 being the lowest No.4 Mk.I* by Stevens-Savage, so I cannot give a more precise number for the changeover.

I have a 1941 Stevens-Savage, serial number OT820, that was converted to No.4 Mk.I (T) at R.S.A.F. Enfield and has the distinctive R.S.A.F. inspection mark on top of the front scope pad, usually only found on ex-Trials 1931 & 1933 dated rifles converted to No.4 Mk.I (T).

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Thank you for the info Captain!

I also enjoyed the shameless plug of what’s in your collection ;)

---------- Post added at 09:35 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:31 AM ----------

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Originally Posted by husk

As mentioned, it is a late-production Savage. For some reason you don’t see many around.

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Thank you Husky!

Yes, Roger Payne is correct. I discovered this anomaly in the old Instructions for Quartemasters which was a mine of information regarding production and serial numbers....., meant to be forwarded down to the Armourers under their control.

The only one I saw and made a note of was 0C38286 if my memory serves me right.

These Instructions for Quartermasters were rarely read and came on flimsy thin yellowing paper. They detailed where duplication of serial numbers existed - Bren guns and Stens - and other odds and sods, such as out-of-sequence numbers and manufacturing variations.