Savage No.4 Mk.I* Restoration

Hi All,

Many years ago, perhaps at my first or second Tulsa, my brother and I picked up a pile of Enfield barreled actions; among them a few Indian SMLE variants and a No.4 Mk.I* by Savage. All of them are/were a little threadbare, finish-wise, but otherwise sound. And in a box they sat for many years until this summer, when I got the urge to do a build. So long story short, I am working restoring this No.4. Full disclosure No.4's aren't my favorite Enfield types, but I have always liked these Lend-Lease Savages. At any rate, combing through all the spares we had collectively, it turns out I can put this together as an all-Savage build without needing to source too many parts (see my WTB post about that Savage Forearm I still need :lol: ) as opposed to my original inclination to do a post-war rebuild.

So now I have come to the forums seeking the collective wisdom of the group; I have questions!

For what its worth, this is a 1942 date, Serial 28C86XX

First and foremost- Metal Finish. From what I have read, J Stevens (under Savage) did these just like they did the Thompson SMG- Dilute Black oxide receiver, normal bluing everything else, and all with a matte media blasted preparation. I haven't seen any substantiated reports of other correct finishes, such a higher polished blue for an original factory finish, but I would love more information here and/or pictures of original finishes to work towards. I will be reblueing this example(I don't rush to the reblueing tank with milsurps there is barely any finish left as it is).

Next, Buttplate. From what I have seen, the zumak zinc allow plate is correct on all of these. Any variations I should be aware of?

Accessories. I have managed to locate and buy an action cover, but I would like to find out more about slings- are there Savage marked ones out there? Muzzle covers of any kind?

I understand that once these entered service they were kitted out with whatever was around but I am attempted to go for a pure savage build, right down to the sling.

Thanks for any help you can all provide. If there is interest, I can provide pictures as this project crawls along.
Cheers

Slings usually issued by the QM from the pile available in the store. Doubt if Savage would be into making rifle slings too?
Action and muzzle covers would be WWI I believe and for No 1 rifles.

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Originally Posted by Daan Kemp

Slings usually issued by the QM from the pile available in the store. Doubt if Savage would be into making rifle slings too?
Action and muzzle covers would be WWI I believe and for No 1 rifles.

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Hi Daan, I actually already secured an action cover. I am told this is one made by (or atleast contracted by) Savage. Here is the pic off the ebay listing from when I bought it:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...9/sl1600-1.jpg

I have heard you can find this marking on other canvas goods, but I haven't really found many photos of other similarly marked gear.

Well done. So a Savage sling might not be that impossible.

Did your barreled action come with a numbers matching bolt ?

With Lee Enfields the parts are not 'plug & play' (even woodwork off another 'identical' rifle will probably need work to fit correctly)
A bolt from another rifle will almost definitely need work doing (grinding etc) to ensure a proper fit so that the locking lugs engage properly.

Hi Alan- It did NOT come with a matching numbers bolt, but I'm fortunate to have a brother with far too many Enfield parts (though not quite enough Savage parts for me to avoid tracking a few down) AND headspace gauges. We are both aware of the need to make sure swapped bolt/action parts gauged properly. After trying a few bolt heads, we landed on a set that passes the headspace gauges, so safety isn't an issue there. And re: other parts needing fitting, I definitely have experience in that area and I expect (a kind of hope!) to need to fit some things here and there. I think that's part of the charm in rebuilding these old rifles. Mass produced and interchangeable, yes, but you still need to hand fit!

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Originally Posted by Daan Kemp

Well done. So a Savage sling might not be that impossible.

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Fingers crossed! It may still be a little out of the ordinary, even if there are Savage made slings (and frogs?? I have a Savage bayonet, but what about those fittings too! :runaway: ) to have encountered an all-Savage rifle in the field. No idea how these were shipped but if it was like most period rifles I have seen, it was slathered in grease stacked in crates- not kitted out with webgear. Still.... if they made those accessories, that would be goal!

You could look for a junkmetal buttplate marked "ILCO" which I think is Illinois Lock Company. A Victory Plastics (New Hampshire) scabbard/frog combo would be nice. Don't know about the sling.

Attachment 132952Attachment 132953Attachment 132954

Thanks for the excellent close up there on the buttplate, Steve! Now I have a lead. That's a very cool scabbard and frog; currently my bayonet is riding around in a very nice but un-maker-marked stamped scabbard with the usual metal button for the frog. Yours is a totally different configuration and very interesting. Something else for me to keep an eye out for.

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by m4a3sherman

After trying a few bolt heads, we landed on a set that passes the headspace gauges, so safety isn't an issue there. And re: other parts needing fitting, I definitely have experience in that area and I expect (a kind of hope!) to need to fit some things here and there.

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It is pointless setting the headspace before grinding the locking lugs, as, when you do 'hand fit' the locking lugs it will affect the headspace.

As important as headspace is bolt head under / overturn, so need to ensure that the bolt head clocks correctly, and THEN ensure it meets headspace specs.

Hi Alan; All is good on this rifle/bolt/bolt head. Bolt head does not over-rotate/indexes properly. Locking lugs engage properly and all appears good to go with the gauges. My brother who I had fit the bolt has been doing it a while, so I feel pretty good about it.

Alan, I’m m4a3shermans’s brother. This wasn’t my first rodeo. I have worked as a machinist and gun smith. I have all of Peter Laidler‘s articles printed out and bound, have for years. Also have a copy of Canadian Ordnance Corps, Extracts from Instructions for Armourers I got from Brian Dick at BDL Ltd, many years ago. I didn’t just grab the first bolt that fell to hand. I had a half dozen bolt bodys and eight bolt heads to choose from for the best fit. Both lugs were checked for proper engagement before I put the first bolt head on. Bolt head fully tightened clocks past at about 8°. Bolt closes on a British Military Spec Go Gauge, does not close on a British Military Spec No Go Gauge. I have collected Enfield rifles, parts, Armours tools, gauges, related accoutrement and worked with Enfields for about 32 years now. In an endeavor to learn as much as I could, about twenty years ago, I built a SMLE Mk.III* using a stripped action body and mostly NOS components. Getting the NOS forestock properly fitted sure was a learning experience! I do appreciate your concern as this is different than bolting an AR15 together, and people do need to be aware that this takes more work, care and attention to detail to be properly set up and safe.

That's wonderful that he had you to assist, but unless we are told that in advance (and the 'brothers' experience), when someone implies they are not used to working on Enfield's it is surely beholden on us to ensure they work and shoot safely and give them advice to assist them in their re-fit.

This does not suggest any experience ..................


Many years ago, perhaps at my first or second Tulsa, my brother and I picked up a pile of Enfield barreled actions; among them a few Indian SMLE variants and a No.4 Mk.I* by Savage. All of them are/were a little threadbare, finish-wise, but otherwise sound. And in a box they sat for many years until this summer, when I got the urge to do a build. So long story short, I am working restoring this No.4. Full disclosure No.4's aren't my favorite Enfield types,

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Originally Posted by Alan de Enfield

That's wonderful that he had you to assist, but unless we are told that in advance (and the 'brothers' experience), when someone implies they are not used to working on Enfield's it is surely beholden on us to ensure they work and shoot safely and give them advice to assist them in their re-fit.

This does not suggest any experience ..................


Many years ago, perhaps at my first or second Tulsa, my brother and I picked up a pile of Enfield barreled actions; among them a few Indian SMLE variants and a No.4 Mk.I* by Savage. All of them are/were a little threadbare, finish-wise, but otherwise sound. And in a box they sat for many years until this summer, when I got the urge to do a build. So long story short, I am working restoring this No.4. Full disclosure No.4's aren't my favorite Enfield types,

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Alan,

Very valid point there- for further context; on top of Sht_le's experience, I have also worked as a gunsmith for around 7 years consistently, and have kept up those skills privately since. I have absolutely seen the results of uneducated or otherwise sloppy work and its not pretty (An exploded receiver might look cool as long as no one was hurt, but it's nothing to strive for and can be costly on so many levels). I take the safety of myself and my arms very seriously; you never know who will end up with these once I am long dead.

And while I am not a big fan of most No.4's, I HAVE built a few No.1's (along side Sht_le's guidance). So between the two of us, I fancy we have enough experience, references, and grey matter to built a safe rifle, if nothing else. Now if only I can locate the last handful of Savage parts... :lol:

I have an unmolested Savage No4 MkI* with all original components.
I’d be happy to provide any detail pictures you need to help with the restoration.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...e9d494_c-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...7c10ea_c-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...a8a0ef_c-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by Thunderstreak

Savage No4 MkI* with all original components.

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Nice sling, first I think I've seen marked to Savage.

ah ha! A Savage sling, and Canadian marked at that!. Thank you for posting that, of course now unfortunately I get to search for one of those slings for the next few years :lol: Looks like brass tabs on that one too, so that does rule out looking through the steel tab slings.

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Originally Posted by Thunderstreak

I’d be happy to provide any detail pictures you need to help with the restoration.

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Could I ask you to show a close up of the top of the bolt handle? I believe there would be a flaming bomb or something on the top of the bolt handle, but can't find a good photo of it. What year is yours?

Thanks all!!

I have 2 Savage No4’s. The one pictured above is from May 1943 and the other is November 1942.
In my limited experience the flaming bomb is usually stamped on the wrist and sometimes on the bolt handle. Mine are all poorly/lightly stamped but are there!

1942 w/ bomb just under the 94 of 1942.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...8f582f_c-1.jpg

1942 bolt handle w/ bomb.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...7724ef_c-1.jpg

1943 w/ bomb lightly stamped in the center of the wrist.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...d9f5f6_c-1.jpg

1943 bolt handle no bomb.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...afb1b8_c-1.jpg

Hope that helps.

Thanks to some good fortune I have located pretty much all the remaining parts for this build, so thats pretty great.

Among the parts arrived/on the way, these New-old-stock handguards that somehow survived the ride over from the UK despite really flimsy packaging. They definitely have the look and feel of having never been on a rifle, and according to some of what I have read, Savage sent a ton of spares all over, so this makes sense to me. Nice crisp stamps, but the little cross in circle is new to me. Any ideas there?

Thanks all!

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../ZlKiLgA-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../Crvl5VO-1.jpg