Printable View
A friend called me today and wanted to know if I had ever heard of a Springfield rifle in 303.
I looked it up in my Collector Grade book on Springfields and I let him describe what he saw. He told me what this one looked like and its exactly like the book. Does anyone know how many were made and are they worth much?
I've never heard of anything in .303 Brit. Very early '03's were in caliber .30-03, is that what you mean?
Chances of finding a M1903 in .30-03 are very slim.
Remington made 3 of them for England, they didnt want them, all are in display in the Cody arms museum...i have some pictures of them someplace.
By all means, PLEASE post them when you get a chance, I would very much like to see them.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckindenver
I always wanted to go to that museum when attending school in Golden,CO in 1982, it just wasn't feasable. The distance looks small on a map, but the actual distance would require 2 days up and 2 days back driving time. I only had 2 days on a weekend off.
The British wanted them for very early in WWII. They signed the contract for .303 rifles. US Army objected and the contract was re-written for .30-'06 only. Remington had handmade the .303 rifles, toolroom samples. Never got into production. I did not know that are in Cody. Why and how did they end up there?
Your information is not accurate. The British never signed a contract with Remington for .303 caliber rifles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Calif-Steve
I do not know how the rifles ended up in Cody unless Remington donated them when they closed down their Ilion factory. I understand that one rifle still remains on display in the Remington museum in Ilion.
J.B.
As I understand it, the Brits wanted a .303 Springfield, but Remington said redesigning the rifle would take a long time. As they were in a hurry for rifles, they agreed (and signed a contract for) M1903s in .30-06.
rifles are pretty strange, lower box magazines, barrels made to accept SMLE type bayonets, weird sights, 17 type stocks, all the rifles are still in the white, and no serial numbers are stamped on the bridge.
if i remember right they were donated by Remington, along with a pile of very very cool military weapons.. including a Remington made M14...very awesome.
the guard when closing laughed at me for standing on a chair to take pictures of the 303 brit Remingtons, ill see if i can find the pics...
the other weapons that stuck in my mind were the Winchester model 100,s parkerized, and set up with a bayonet lug for special forces in Nam,.
Chuck posted these photos a little while back, but I can't remember if it was on this forum. I would like to see them again, too!
I read a very good article on the .303 Springfields a few years back. Strictly by vague memory. "The British Purchasing Commission was a United Kingdom organization of the Second World War. Also known at some time as the "Anglo-French Purchasing Board", it was based in New York City, where it arranged the production and purchase of armaments from North American manufacturers."
IF I recall correctly these people visited Remington and asked for a .303 rifle. Remington did the work-up and made a very few toolroom samples. When the US Army heard of the .303 caliber they objected and stopped the caliber conversion. People remembered the P14/M1917 issues of WWI and did not want a repeat of that. Once that was settled the M1903 Remington production started flowing to England. I know during WWII the French asked for a Garand tool package, and the US refused. Too bad the British didn't get a Garand tool package, would have made sense.
Please, Chuck,Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike D
DO show them if you still have them.
Thanks,
Emri
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calif-Steve
If you recollection is accurate, the article you read is flawed. The British came shopping for a rifle in .303 caliber. But, that prospect was very quickly ruled out. Remington was then placed under contract for .30-'06 caliber rifles. And from that point on, it was full speed ahead for .30-'06 caliber rifles. The .303 model shop rifles weren't even a speed bump in the road to production. And there was no relationship with the P'14 and M1917 rifles.
J.B.
Attachment 22062Attachment 22063Attachment 22064
heres some of the pics of the 303 cal 03,s and one of some of the other 03 variants they have on display..
keep in mind, i only had a short time in the evening to go through the collections, i was there for a gunshow..and both days they chased me out to close up.
Did Bannermans' or similar ever cobble up any .303"SAA '03 Springfields?
There is a nice line drawing of the .303 rifle Remington prototyped for the British in Clark Campbell's "the '03 Springfied Era", 2003
Regards,
Jim
Wonder how long it took the Brits to find their way from Illion to Utica and make a deal with Savage for .303 No 4's..
Savage Number 4's were made at the Chicopee Falls, Massachusetts Plant. Used to live near the old works..Where did Utica, New York come into play? Savage was based out of Springfield, Massachusetts!!!! A sense of pride for those of us from the Bay State. Only good thing to come out of New York were empty buses....and K-Bar knives....
Savage Arms was headquartered in Utica, NY until after WWII.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohawk
My Bad. I'm 42. Always thought they were a Springfield Operation. New York is still a lousy State.
Really? Are you familiar with the F-14 Tomcat?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohawk