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Hi chaps,i have been using the site for some time,but until now never had the courage to leave a message.
I live in North wales ,u.k and am a keen collector of certain ww1 items,such as trench art and related ww1 literature.
I do however have some items left by my family that i havnt a clue about,such as a Lee enfield rifle scope with attachments,i could really do with your help in identifying the model and the extras...can u help ?
Sure - ideally post pictures, what are the markings on it?
Hi there ,many thanks for your reply ,i will post some pictures later this evening ..however the markings on the scope are ..TEL STIG NO 32 ,MK..? OS 2039A ..NO 26337....I cant tell what mk.no. is as it is covered by the mounts..its been in a loft for nearly 40 years and i a bit reluctant to try and remove it ...hope this helps ...best regards shilly
Sure - well it's a no32 mk3 scope which would have sat atop a Lee Enfield No4 mk1 (T) sniper rifle. Depending on condition it's worth a fair few quid and if it comes with an original bracket (which yours does) it'll be worth even more. There'll be a lot of collectors who'll want it to make up a full sniper rifle. Does it come in a metal case?
Thanks for your quick reply..i really need to post some pics later, what date would you put on it ..im trying to ascertain whether it was actually used by a family member ..best regards..shilly
Shilly, these telescopic sights were manufactured 1941-46. The 4(T) sniper rifles were used from 1941 through to the 1970s. The number indicates that its a Mk3. The metal bracket will probably have a rifle number on it, which will be one letter followed by a 5-digit number starting with a 3, e.g. "V37345" or similar.
By the way, there is a large arms fair taking place at Bisley in Surrey during weekend after next 22-23 October. There will be several Lee Enfield specialists on the trade stands there, including myself. If you happen to be around, bring the scope along and we can tell you exactly what you've got and how much its worth.
Many thanks for that...the dates correspond to my grandfathers army service..i need to do some more digging..and now try to work out how to apply photos to this thread...best regards shilly !!
Shilly,
Yes, it is definitely a No32 Mk3 off a 1944/45 era No4 (T) WW2 Lee Enfield sniper's rifle. However, the mounts are something that has been put together post-War to enable it to be used on a self-loading rifle, & are not original to the scope. The scope looks 'well loved' but is still quite a valuable piece. Shame it doesn't have the original No4 bracket with it. You mentioned that it has been in the loft for 40 years....well of course 40 years ago our government here in the UK trusted us to possess sef-loading weapons. Was anyone a shooter in your family?
I am in the process of restoring several original No4 (T), so if you weaken on selling it.......please would you consider pm'ing me as I'd be interested in it (if I'm not knocked over in the rush!)?
ATB
Hi roger..thank you for the detail,this scope is part of a large collection passed on to me by my father, i believe he had a passion for shooting some time ago,he collected allsorts of militaria from trench art to lugers,ive even got some original civil war stuff...i am considering selling the scope as my interests lie with ww1 ephemera..george bairnsfather etc. however i will obviously inform you of the situation should i decide to sell..best regards ..shilly
Many thanks shilly. In fact I have a passion for The Great War myself, & spend a lot of time over on The Somme (but not enough!) specifically, & The Western Front generally. The picture of me on the roof of a bunker in my profile was actually taken in Bourlon Wood on The Hindenburg Line defences last year. Your scope looks to me as though perhaps your father or whoever he got it from may have made (or had made) the mounts so that it could be used on a self-loader, back in the days when the average Joe could still legally own one in functional condition. Sadly, since Hungerford, long gone...
Thanks for bearing me in mind.
ATB
Dust cover off an L1A1 SLR.
Definitely an FN topcover, but not a standard one. I've got a SUIT (Sight Unit Infantry Trilux) in my collection, and it is NOT a SUIT topcover.
http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/coffee/trilux.htm
Looks like a one-of job. Wonder how it shoots?
NS
No.4 T scope fitted to L1A1 / FAL action cover. ever thought of that combination. I might have to try it myself.
I have seen the No.32’s scope being fitted to British FN’s in Northern Ireland, I believe they were used for marksmen. I don’t know the full ins and outs but have seen television footage, with the FN’s with these No.32 scope attached to the top covers. Maybe people in the know will be able to explain more…
Hi Daniel,
That's intesting. Never seen that before, although the No74 scope which was produced in small quantities was issued mounted to the L1A1 top cover. I had one once but a silver-tongued armourer talked me out of it. All a bit too modern for me anyway......
ATB
I think they put them in a mount like one of these…
http://www.gunscollecting.com/wp-con...-fal-sopra.jpg
I have to say that I never ever saw an L1A1 or a No32 sight opn an L1A1 rifle cover. In either configuration the telescoppe wouldn't have been even remotely calibrated to the L1 rifle unless someone made up a calibrated range drum.
I recently saw all of the paperwork in relation to the optical sight configurations for the UK L1A1 held at Warminster and the No32/L1A1 didn't feature. Maybe KtK could just re-confirm this
The cover shown is in fact an L1A1 rifle cover as illustrated by the longer ears/extensions/stops at the rear. The photos aren't the best but it LOOKS as though it might be that the SUIT or IWS rail has been chopped off of the what we call the platform - the squared-off piece spot welded to the cover. Alas, even that piece would pull apart from the cover when used with the old heavy IWS
The “platform” (the sheet metal spot welded to the topcover) is different from either the S.U.I.T. or I.W.S. platform, and is mounted a lot further forward on the topcover than either,
I wonder if we could have a better pic. Of the topcover and discuss it in the L1A1 forum? Is the platform home made ? or how much has it been modified??
I will try and place some close up pictures of the topcover shortly for discussion..i have no expertise in this area,but whatever the marriage is ,it looks a pretty accomplished effort !
thanks
shilly
There were quite a few civilian-made L1A1 scope top covers back in the days when the rifles were legal to own in UK, but IIRC all of them had brazed-on rails of one type or another. Its interesting that shilly's topcover is spot-welded, which makes it look quite "factory" in appearance, particularly as the suncorite has the "look" as well. However it doesn't match any of the 50-odd experimental and factory top covers listed in the histories of the FAL rifle. Would be interesting to see it close up.
This is a typical civvie mount, although - ironically - this particular specimen was actually procured as a "local purchase" for military use.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...98938121-1.jpg
Could the platform have been unpicked from an old cover and shunted a bit firther forwards on this new cover? Someone mentioned the spot welds.........jeeeees, they look awful.... mind you, needs must and all that! The welded mounting of the No32 base rings looks even worse! But I maintain that it's still an L1A1 cover albeit, as Skippy alludes, somewhate modified!
Pat Walker Guns in the 1980s were offering service exchange dust covers fitted with with scope rails for about £50, I bought one for my Lihgow SLR at the timeQuote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbox
To my eye both mount, cover and scope have see a lot more wear and use than civilians give their weapons. ;-)
Oh my God!! Pat Walker...does that bring back memories. Wonder if pat is still this side of the grass or not. What a man!!!
Hi roger ,you expressed an interest in my scope some time ago , i have finally decided to sell it and was wondering if your still interested in buying it,as i am thinking of putting it on ebay,but i would much rather sell it privately than risk the vagaries of ebay
regards eric
Hi Eric, I've PM'ed you.
ATB
Roger
I would quesdtion that it was a "put together" It could have been an experimental mount predating the standard SLR optical sight. I would base this on the attachment to the bolt cover.. I have a tip-off mount and scope for an SLR that has the windage and elevation adjustments in the base.
It should also be borne in mind that during the early days of the "Troubles" in NI units were apt to be a bit more lax on the modifications they alowed soldiers to make (get away with) to their rifles, just as long as the mod was reversable. When I first joined my unit in 1983 one of the lads was still "famous" for having fitted a Singlepoint sight to his SLR. I've also seen one rifle (and pics of others) which had been fitted with a GPMG bi-pod.
I'd say that there's every chance that this is something which might have been done to an in-service rifle and, if not done by the OP's father, then it could be something he's subsequently purchased from an ex squaddie. I'm sure that with the purchase of enough packets of biscuits or jars of coffee to suplement the armourer sergeant's brew fund, a "buckshee" scope wasn't too hard to come by.;)
There were and still are local EMER modifications and Harry is right, that they were sanctioned locally just so long as the stuff was returned to 'as issue' prior to its return (L39's are a good example.....) But lose a telescope, especially a serially numbered one matched by number to a rifle no less was just one step worse than losing a compass or a pair of binos but not quite in the suicidal depths league of losing a weapon. It was a board of enquiry no less. And an Army Board of Enquiry was not to ascertain guilt as in the normal course of the Judicial process. No......, you were already guilty, that's why you were hauled before the Court of Enquiry!. It was just to find out HOW guilty you were before you found yourself before the Company Commander or even worse, the Battalion Commander.
Nope....., I still recon this was a home made thinggy. It would be no good putting this thing onto your rifle if there wasn't even a chance of hitting a cows arsx with a cricket bat
Talking of Boards of Enquiry, remind me one day to tell about 'losing' the .300" Browning machine gun at Castlemartin tank ranges