Thought this may be of interest, and maybe a candidate for a 'sticky'
Used by the HBSA at the imperial War Museum
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Thought this may be of interest, and maybe a candidate for a 'sticky'
Used by the HBSA at the imperial War Museum
Photo 53, the adjusting tool shown isn't for a No5 rifle but a Sterling SMG. It is the TOOL, adjusting, foresight No5 but it is not for the rifle. It is the No5 TOOL. I think that the TOOL, adjusting foresight No4 is for the No5 rifle.
Photo 57. Those backsights were done on the cheap for the L81 A1 Cadet target rifle. It is said that P-H made them so dire to the point of sheer crap so that the competitive school Cadet Forces would be obliged to buy P-H sights to get onto the target. But, alas, not just your old P-H Mauser sight that you might have handy as it fouled the bolt when you lifted the handle
Plate number 15 is "I believe" a HUMPHRIES, made in Canada around 1917 - 20.
Humphries was a native Canadian (First Nations) who worked out of Vancouver, BC. Canada
I have the identical sight with his name hand stamped on it.
Great thanks.....
Lots of mistakes and missed sights, pity.
This was done back about '09 if I remember correctly, pity he hadn't contacted a sight collector, he's missed more than he found.
Still, at least he made the effort.
Absolutely correct - but its a bit like Skennerton (and others') books - you publish what you know at the time and a month ot two late someone says "if only you'd asked me ......."Quote:
Originally Posted by muffett.2008
We all have to start somewhere.
Maybe we can take this thread as an opportunity to build upon the knowledge and add pictures and info so as to get a more complete listing.
Come on - add those weird and wonderful sights you've got hiding in the "shed".
I was thinking the same as AdeE too. Like writing a book. The first person to read it immediately knows more than you. He knows all that you have justy written PLUS the tiny bit he knew before....., usually one of the fallacies that his dad told him. And the only reason he's actually reading your book is because he's interested in the subject! I heard last week that the millionth Sten gun was gold plated! I mean........ gold plate a Sten gun when we were at our lowest point! And how would any of the makers know that THEIR gun was the millionth?
Such is life!
Give me time Alan, PL's been at me too, but at the moment I'm halfway through writing a book on my Rifle Club, 114 years and four ranges and still going strong.
But it will happen.
Tony Cattermole has done some interesting subjects, well worth following if you are into black powder.
Just stay up a little later or get up a little earlier Muff make time.:D Pics mate pics :bow:
That's easy for you to say, Bindii. I've been up a couple of hours before the sun even gets out of bed on your side:lol:
I once posted pic's on the old shooters forum, must have overloaded it cause the closed down:rofl: it was a far better site than the new Shooting Australia one.
I have six of these chests, a bloody lot of cash tied up in them, these are just a few draws.
Attachment 124481Attachment 124482Attachment 124483Attachment 124484Attachment 124485Attachment 124486Attachment 124487Attachment 124488Attachment 124489Attachment 124490Attachment 124491Attachment 124492Attachment 124493Attachment 124494Attachment 124495Attachment 124496Attachment 124500Attachment 124499Attachment 124498Attachment 124497
.........and these pic's are out of date:beerchug:
Woops, a couple of double pic's, just too many to click on:lol:
Muffer thats very impressive. Mate where did you get those little wooden chest?
They are Kinchrome Tool Box's, made for instruments more so than tools.
Can be purchased from their website.
Thanks, I'll have a look at those.Quote:
Originally Posted by muffett.2008
Looks like a road trip your way is required.:thup:
Hope you mean a road trip to see Demo, I'm up in Townsville for the next few weeks, so that would add a fair few K's to your trip.:rofl:
What you wont be there when i arrive:D gee how thoughtfull. You did feed the dogs before you left :yikes: on second thoughts i will stay home a little longer:wave:Quote:
Originally Posted by muffett.2008
Brought the dog with me Bindii, spending a few weeks doing research at JCU and the odd Militaria Auction.
I had a look at one today, but I'm not into blackpowder and the rest of the items were not for me, so I saved some money, another auction on Sunday, viewing tomorrow, will see what's on offer.
I know this is a Number 9 - but which one is my question. It almost seems as if it's been beefed up. The aperture is a BSA 6 position, both the sight and the mounting plate are marked Alfd Parker (would have been nice if there were only one) and the address is not a known Parker address.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC01013-1.jpg
forgive my ignorance but i don't know near as much about the Lee Enfield family as i should.
i just picked up a 1943 Long Branch No.4 Mk.1 that has a Mk1 rear sight on it. my question is, would that have been on the rifle during the war or would that sight have been added post war? i never see any WWII pictures of the No.4 with anything but the "L" shaped sight.
It could have/might easily have had one fitted. Either at the factory - incoming suppliers stocks permitting. Or in service. A defective Mk2 backsight could easily be replaced with a Mk1 type if one were on the shelf.
thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
i'll post pics as soon as it arrives.
PM Muff direct and let him know there is a query on this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian
Wasn't he the chap who came up with the aperture sight mounting bridge / charger guide for the Ross MkII or so they say? I believe he was a Cowichan; best known for their sweaters!Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
I used to have one of his sights, photos attached.
I see Muffet.2008 has one as well. They seem to have traveled widely, surprisingly enough, as they're no silk purse.
The Parker Hale 8/53, plate 55, those ever show up here in the US?
I like the looks of it but when folded down is the point blank aperture blocked by the threaded PH aperture?
John
I see you've got an early Humphreys sight there, left drawer back center: https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....0&d=1400495572
I found the arm of a better and later version recently. There are no patent records in Canada I could find though, despite the patent claim on the sight.
If anyone has a base I would appreciate seeing a few photos. I think Lyman may have inspired the toothed arm. (Sorry about the bad photos)
Ned Kelly's last words before he swung on the end of a rope...................Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
I picked this up at a garage sale today cause I thought it was cool. Was pretty hard to find out what it was but noticed a picture of it in the slide show.
I can't find any info on them so anything you guys would be willing to share would be much appreciated.
Attachment 62927
Thanks,
Matt
It's a sight cramp...for adjusting sights. You know that now right? It's for the #1 Mk3 and variants I think. We have it in the knowledge library too... Milsurps Knowledge Library - Fore Sight Adjusting Cramps (by Graeme Barber))
Thanks Jim, I've listed it on ebay, I could only find out what it was and that it seemed hard to find.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Pictures replaced.
Just found this great information
Apologies all for being 8 years late to this thread!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian
Cecil street is the top northern of the gun quarter in Birmingham and I wonder if Alfred Parker rented a room (38a?) before acquiring a larger property that suited his future needs?
The sight itself certainly looks like a "beefed up" No.9c and one I haven't observed before; this leads me to think that it may have contravened a patent or more likely was a forerunner for the excellent AJ Parker Plus 5 folding sight of the late 1930's.
Definitely Humphreys; had one very similar so marked. He is said to have made the first sight bridge for the Ross Mk.II as well. Early sights were very much "hand-made".Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
Here's the "arm" for another of his, with much better finish.
In 1908 the NRA Sight Committee inspected 90 new sights and accepted 58 of them; where are they and more importantly what were they!Quote:
Originally Posted by Surpmil
If that information is anywhere it is probably in the NRA archives. The NRA Museum is probably a treasure trove of information, but I have the impression they survive on a minimal budget and with mostly or entirely volunteer staff.
Regarding Humphreys, his father was an HBCo. employee who married an Indian woman. Humphreys junior was a gunsmith in Vancouver before WWI and served from early 1915 to late 1918 as an Armourer Sergeant in the 47th Battalion in France, and died from the effects of service in 1921. He was born in 1875 so was somewhat over-age even at enlistment.
Surpmil, I don't think the "proceedings" of the NRA were detailed enough to record individual sights etc and much has been lost over the years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Surpmil
Talking of losses many of the old crowd, (now passed) I used to shoot with alluded to a burglary in the 1960's where many items were stolen and few of these were actually recorded in the museum books.
I think the museum is open either one or two days a week, I use it for looking at old Bisley Bibles to confirm certain shooting disciplines for historic matches, type of sling etc.
Regarding a minimal budget...I'm not sure they even have a budget!
Yes, according to Martin Farnan, at one time in the 1960s the collection fell into the hands of an individual, who offered to 'sort them out' for the NRA. He sorted them out, alright, and was subsequently convicted of the theft of a number of small items for resale, most of which were never recovered. This is the reason why many of the match rifles are missing their sights today.
Good evening. I had noticed the Brinell foresight blades in the slideshow. How hard are these to locate? The entire kit would be great to find but certainly interested in locating the sight block and a couple of the circular front sight blades. Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Brindles, or rather John Light (Brindles was the name of his house!) was a one-man business who in reality couldn't have produced that much stock.Quote:
Originally Posted by bobcat789
The foresight sets turn op very occasionally these days and I suspect the majority of them have been binned over the years or ended up in collections over here.
John was local to Bisley and at one time was the NRA Armourer so well placed for sales!
I've got a partial Brindles set here, which turned up a while back.
Another unknown?
Spanner adjustable I see! :D
The sight base depicted is part of Samuel Peacock's 1906 patent 7994, the sight ladder attached is a target specific one as opposed to the original Military one that was marked to 1700 yards.
Attachment 128664
From 1905 until 1908, there were several innovative sight adjusters patented,the Reardon sight which is very similar to the one depicted is a variation and may well be the sight family in question.
Attachment 128665
I have seen the sight you depict, but for the love of me cannot locate it in my files.
Was one I sold years back. Came out of a large box of remainders from a long-standing but long-gone local gunsmith. The sights were clearly the residues of his having made sporters out of pre-WWI target rifles, both Rosses and long Lees.Quote:
Originally Posted by muffett.2008
Heres another Rare unmarked sight, grabbed this as soon as I saw it (thanks Markymark) took awhile to get it but well worth the wait.
Seized and dirty, but not a problem, half a day had it stripped and cleaned and working again.
Attachment 129033Attachment 129034Attachment 129035
Now I am unsure of the make, but several design features point me to one specific bloke, along with the fact that I had seen this type sight at a small museum in Charters Towers adds to my pointing towards Harry Motton as the bloke.(willing to be proved wrong though)
The windarm is the first give away, this type was used until 1912 on his unmarked small folder, along with the external spring to locate the arm, used all the way along with the halfnut elevation system until after the EDMOTT, when he finally made a captive nut sight.
This sight has the halfnut with lever release, same windarm as later models, same type windarm lock, but the elevation arm is a similar style to the early hockeystick style used by Westly Richards(Motton took an example of his sight to England in 1907 where he toured both Westely Richards and BSA plants,he later became the distributor for both their sights)
Attachment 129038
Heres three early styles together, each having a similarity, but different in it's own right, the other extended leg sight is different as in the windarm swings into it's locked position and is secured by a thumbnut instead of his usual spring plate method.
The shorter sight is the last unmarked style before MOTTY became his mark, the basics are the same as the extended leg sight, made to adapt to a different style rifle. The short sight was designed for the No.1 configuration.
Attachment 129037
Just a glance at his folders(Except for the ring in fixed arm at the bottom) all are different in some small design feature.
Attachment 129036
First off, thanks to Nic Weston (RIP), Tony Cattermole, and Alan de Enfield for compiling and presenting this excellent and near complete treatise on Lee Enfield sights. Into my possession has come a civilian Territorial target rifle with interesting and at least to me, heretofore unknown sights. The sights were made by Vickers Son and Maxim and comprise a rotating quadrant style base for the rear sight to correct for windage and what best can be described as a 'ghost ring' front sight. Extensive online searches have found very little information on these sights so I'm hoping members of this august body will be able to shed further light on when these sights were produced, how common were they, and most importantly, how to use them.
Information on Marbles Vickers Maxim (VM) front sight, along with information on all Marbles Sights can be found in Nick Stroebel's OLD GUNSIGHTS a Collectors Guide 1850 - 1965
Page75 to 77 deal with this sight.
Chapter 4 of Nick's OLD GUNSIGHTS and Rifle Scopes also has detailed information.
I'd post pic's of the relavent pages, but this would be a copyright infringement.
Just to throw another rare one at you, Stan Edwards 1924 patent 17,575/24 complete with equally rare Central patent 143,379 peep.
Now at first sight you will note features of both Mues and Motton, but thats where the similarities end, Mues style Elevation lock knob although different in the patent - may be a replacement.
Motty leaf spring for windarm. This one has additional plate to tighten spring, not that it needs it when set correctly.
This is the second I have seen, this one has the patent number ground off the mounting point, but has Edwards stamped on the inner face.
Attachment 131815Attachment 131816Attachment 131817Attachment 131818Attachment 131819
These odd sights just keep growing. Not totally unmarked but very faint and no name.
But a familiar shape if nothing else.
Attachment 134931Attachment 134932Attachment 134933
BSA No.9 on the right by the look of it.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...9cAD1909-1.jpg
Yeah it's a number 9, just showing the similarities of the early sight.
.......and another headscratcher, looks familiar, Mues? Motty ?
Attachment 135963Attachment 135962
well it looks like they borrowed heavily from each other
[ATTACH]Attachment 135965[/ATTACH]
Westley Richards design 28195/08 patent 1300/05