RIA 1903 Springfield Build

Picked up a 1903 Rock Island Arsenal sporter. I want to purchased the correct stock for restoration. After doing a lot of researh I am still having issues identifing the proper stock and stock markings. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Looking at the serial number (3775XX) I beleive that this is a RIA receiver that was assembled by SA. The barrel on this gun is SA 4-28 (I am thinking original). Found a posting that says that there were only 25,600 of these guns, so.... it is a little hard to find any info.

I am thinking that a Type 4\5 stock would be correct for this gun, but am unsure as to inspector marks. Any information or thoughts about the correct stock OR information on the gun itself would be great. Also since there is no stock hardware what kind of markings\hardware should I be looking for?

Thanks for any input.

Hi Eddie. According to Vishooters lists, your rifle probably would have a had a late 1918 barrel, the SA assembled rifles were in the 400,000+ range. There is a gap in the dated cartouches 1920-1930 in Brophy's

Hope that helps.

As I recollect from prior discussions the hybrid rifles run from around 370,000 through the end of RIA's production with SA barrel dates in the 28-30 range. The later the serial number the more likely chance that it was finished at SA although there are original RIA finished rifles in that range as well. One of mine is in the 400000 range and has a 28 dated barrel and a SADAL S stock. The other is in the late 377,000 range with a '29 dated SA barrel and I cannot make out the stock markings. To give credit where due most of my information on these was gleaned from posts by an d questions to John Beard.

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Originally Posted by EddieB

I want to purchase the correct stock for restoration

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I might have a stock for this rifle. its an RIA stock with all the making, I know its an early stock but will have to pull it out of my gun case when I get home from work. I'll post some pictures maybe one of the experts can tell you if its a match.

Tried to delete, could not. Sorry.

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Originally Posted by Roy

Hi Eddie. According to Vishooters lists, your rifle probably would have a had a late 1918 barrel, the SA assembled rifles were in the 400,000+ range. There is a gap in the dated cartouches 1920-1930 in Brophy's

Hope that helps.

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I did see that list, just was worried about the fact that it hasn't be updated in like 9 years. Then I found this list which indicates my serial being after 1919. It seems that RIA serial number to year of manufacture is a bit harder to determine then your average 1903.

I am now leaning to exactly what you said seeing that entry in the VIShooters site with a similar serial and a 1918 barrel. Tanks for the input Roy. This is why I always put stuff out there to see what others think.

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Originally Posted by usabaker

I might have a stock for this rifle. its an RIA stock with all the making, I know its an early stock but will have to pull it out of my gun case when I get home from work. I'll post some pictures maybe one of the experts can tell you if its a match.

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That sounds great USABaker. I look forward to the pictures.

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Originally Posted by twh

As I recollect from prior discussions the hybrid rifles run from around 370,000 through the end of RIA's production with SA barrel dates in the 28-30 range. The later the serial number the more likely chance that it was finished at SA although there are original RIA finished rifles in that range as well. One of mine is in the 400000 range and has a 28 dated barrel and a SADAL S stock. The other is in the late 377,000 range with a '29 dated SA barrel and I cannot make out the stock markings. To give credit where due most of my information on these was gleaned from posts by an d questions to John Beard.

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Thanks for the reply TWH,

So you have any documentation or links that I could look at about the hybrid rifles? I just keep finding conflicting information on the last RIA 1903s, my rifle is after that 370000 , being 3775xx. The most important thing to me is to do the rifle justice by putting it back into a proper stock. THEN I am going to enjoy shooting it. :super:

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Originally Posted by EddieB

That sounds great USABaker. I look forward to the pictures.

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Hey Eddie, I pulled out the stock and it is an RIA but it was not as good as I thought it was, at some point in its life an owner sanded so the cartouches are light the stock itself is nice if not for that. I don't know what year it is the receiver that was in it was not an RIA it was a Springfield Ser# 611998. If you don't find anything else and this will work for you PM me. Maybe one if the Springfield expert her can date this stock.

bill

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More Pictures of it
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Last Two
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Originally Posted by usabaker

Hey Eddie, I pulled out the stock and it is an RIA but it was not as good as I thought it was, at some point in its life an owner sanded so the cartouches are light the stock itself is nice if not for that. I don't know what year it is the receiver that was in it was not an RIA it was a Springfield Ser# 611998. If you don't find anything else and this will work for you PM me. Maybe one if the Springfield expert her can date this stock.

bill

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Thanks Bill those are some great pictures. I will PM

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Originally Posted by EddieB

those are some great pictures.

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I use my wife's lighting system she uses to take pictures of the cakes and crap she bakes, sometimes to her displeasure (I don't put it away "right" :D )

Yes Vishooter hasn't changed since I began collecting, but it is known as the most accurate.

The build cartouche is too faint to read but the RIA FK (Frank Krack)is a rebuild mark from RIA during 1920 -30. -Brophy

Is there a RI stamped on the forend tip?

Nice stock. I like rebuild stocks, I can make the rifle as mixed up as I like as correct to the rebuild date.

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Originally Posted by Roy

Yes Vishooter hasn't changed since I began collecting, but it is known as the most accurate.

The build cartouche is too faint to read but the RIA FK (Frank Krack)is a rebuild mark from RIA during 1920 -30. -Brophy

Is there a RI stamped on the forend tip?

Nice stock. I like rebuild stocks, I can make the rifle as mixed up as I like as correct to the rebuild date.

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I am a software guy and depending on what needs to be done, maybe I could help to update the site. If the current administrator is intersted, just send me an email or pm.

Roy, do you know how the RIA metal was marked? or was it marked? By marked I mean "R" like for Remington.

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Originally Posted by Roy

The build cartouche is too faint to read but the RIA FK (Frank Krack)is a rebuild mark from RIA during 1920 -30. -Brophy

Is there a RI stamped on the forend tip?

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It is "RIA FK" it looks like there is an "S" on the forend tip it was covered in gunk, Also found a C or O in the mag/trigger guard well here is a picture;

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To Eddie

Most of the good info was copyrighted to John Beard. If you could contact him and if he let you use his lists you could create a new site quite easily which could be the best M1903 site around, I'm not tech at all but I would like to help with such a project if possible and the platform was easy.

I need to get the RIA book, but very early in production I think RIA had some proofs like eagles heads and ordnance bombs but by WW1 they were not used.

Roy

With respect to sources CS Ferris's book on RIA production is the most complete resource in print. There are numerous threads on this forum and on the Jouster2 forum all though a lot of those were generated on the prior version of that forum but may still be in the archive portion.

According to John Beard, Receivers sent from RIA were from 375,000-430,000+ - 375,000-405,000: About half of these were sent to Springfield; from about 405,000-430,000+, about 75%+ were sent to Springfield and finished there.

A good place to start to get more information on this interesting variation is C.S. Ferris' Rock Island Rifle Model 1903 book published about 10 years back and still available online.

The most interesting (to me) variation of these "hybrids" are the "high number Rock Island rifles. These were receivers marked with "Rock Island Arsenal/Model 1903" with a Springfield serial number in the 1,290,000 range. Supposedly, about 1200 of this variation were manufactured.

"For the record", four types of receivers were sent from Rock Island to Springfield in the mid-1920s:

1) raw forgings
2) completed but unmarked receivers
3) receivers with "Rock Island" but no serial numbers
4) receivers with Rock Island and RIA serial numbers

Here's a few pictures of the "high number" RIA/SA hybrid I have:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...standard-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...standard-2.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...standard-3.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4/xlarge-1.jpg

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RIA/FK is actually Frank Krack, inspector (actually chief of small arms inspection), 1941-46 - Brophy was incorrect.

A large (1/4") S is evidence the stock was originally manufactured at Rock Island during the 1904-1913 period.

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Originally Posted by usabaker

it was a Springfield Ser# 611998.

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I want to hear about this rifle. That is a very interesting serial range to me.

Any information on Springfield 606103 (without Hatcher hole) barrel is RIA 5-18 dated ?

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Originally Posted by RCS

Any information on Springfield 606103 (without Hatcher hole) barrel is RIA 5-18 dated ?

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Um this is an interesting one as well.


Belleau Wood rifles

605585
605591
605637
606538
605639
606538

New Marine rifles around your serial

606131


SRS

605949 083025CAMP DEVENS
606093 073023165TH INF NYNG TO RARITAN ARS
606355 041447SAA (TURNED IN BY FBI)
606386 082538USMC - SAN DIEGO (SURVEY)
606434 100426USMC - PHILA NSY (SURVEYED

I have 606434 and the paper work from Wayne

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Originally Posted by Rick the Librarian

According to John Beard, Receivers sent from RIA were from 375,000-430,000+ - 375,000-405,000: About half of these were sent to Springfield; from about 405,000-430,000+, about 75%+ were sent to Springfield and finished there.

A good place to start to get more information on this interesting variation is C.S. Ferris' Rock Island Rifle Model 1903 book published about 10 years back and still available online.

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Thanks for the info and the pics Rick. Great info.

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Originally Posted by Ralph in PA.

I have 606434 and the paper work from Wayne

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Any chance you could start a new post and I could see pics? I think the low number Marine rifles are way more interesting than the high numbers.

Do you have the original document that serial was posted on? If you don't, there is probably a good chance I have the original document. If not, you can pay Andrew to go find it for you in the archives.

The Survey was when the rifle was found with a defect. Usually meaning it had a bad bore or something along those lines. Usually you see surveyed rifles going back for rebuild.

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Originally Posted by cplstevennorton

I want to hear about this rifle. That is a very interesting serial range to me.

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Sorry for the delay, I've been away in Washington DC and am just now catching up. Ser# 611998 was dug out of a guys basement that had been sitting there since he was a kid. The rifle has a "bubba barrel" and was missing the rear site assm. and bolt, I bought the entire "thing" with the hope of restoring it (The part are worth more then I paid) only to find out the receiver we damaged like it was deformed by being slightly crushed in a vise just enough so you couldn't slide the bolt all the way in. I've set the receiver on the back burner though, I'll rework it at some point and make it into a .22 or a pistol caliber rifle.

Win some lose some...

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Originally Posted by usabaker

Sorry for the delay, I've been away in Washington DC and am just now catching up. Ser# 611998 was dug out of a guys basement that had been sitting there since he was a kid. The rifle has a "bubba barrel" and was missing the rear site assm. and bolt, I bought the entire "thing" with the hope of restoring it (The part are worth more then I paid) only to find out the receiver we damaged like it was deformed by being slightly crushed in a vise just enough so you couldn't slide the bolt all the way in. I've set the receiver on the back burner though, I'll rework it at some point and make it into a .22 or a pistol caliber rifle.

Win some lose some...

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Was the receiver drilled and tapped?

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Originally Posted by cplstevennorton

Was the receiver drilled and tapped?

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Yes it is, there is a grind mark on it as well. Here are some pictures that might answer any questions you have.

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