Ross Project Rifle

I've wanted one of these for years and found one today I couldn't pass up for the price, $249.00.

Of course I didn't have my manuals with me so I sat there in the store watching videos for half an hour, gave Mike a call and he talked me into it.

It appears to have an original Ross barrel on it but it doesn't seat right, almost like it was set back a half inch. Condition of the barrel bore is outstanding so no idea why they would do this. Length is 27 1/2" as measured with a rod against the bolt head. We guestimated it at 28" at the gunshop which is why I thought it was good. Index marks are good but the proofs are cut off. It also looks like the sights were moved forward a half inch on the barrel. The barrel has been removed, there are score marks on it. Stock looks like a standard sporterized cut down forearm. All parts are there except the small rear top hand guard, the front band, the sight hood and the cut off portion of the stock. the stock has been sanded to death and has a crack on one side most likely due to being so thin there.

I can't find any photos on the web but did find two rifles identified as US property that were listed as 27 1/2" barrels. I can't get the barrel to come off by hand. May try more over the weekend but pretty positive it is a Ross barrel, just can't see how they re-indexed it, it has a rather unique attachment system. It does have the rear sight that seems standard on the US rifles and it is in 303 or at least a 303 cartridge fits. Haven't decided what I want to do with it yet. As long as it's safe as is, I'll probably keep it, clean it up and watch for the next 10 years for a bayonet lug/front band and then carve a stock extension for it. Bore is bright with crisp rifling so it should at least be a good shooter.

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The barrel threads are left hand. After a hundred odd years, it might be necessary to clamp the barrel and receiver as would normally be done to break the barrel loose. I'll have to check, but I recall a reference in The Ross Rifle Story to some barrels being set back.
Looks as if the stock could be spliced under the band to restore it to original appearance. Nosecaps can be had, and I believe repro handguards have been carved.

Good looking rifle and great price!

The barrel was no doubt set back when the chamber was re-cut post-WWI. That was done to eliminate the grossly over-sized chamber that resulted from reaming out they were all given in the hopes that would reduce the problems caused by poor quality ammo, and let it be admitted, the less than optimal primary extraction inherent in the design.

So this barrel set back is normal and nothing to worry about? I confirmed the position of the hand guard, you can see wear marks from the two positions of the barrel. That had me a bit concerned which is why I wanted to get the barrel off, to make sure some bubba didn't do it. Looks like a slow restore it will be. With the clues you suggested I was able to find other references which explain the extra holes, they are from the sight being moved after the set back. I suspected that.

I'll probably leave the barrel alone then, no need to take it out I started cleaning the metal late today. It's in pretty decent condition, some light rust here and there but not the pitting type. The stock is going to be more challenging. Considering the possibility of laminating wood on both sides of the receiver area as they sanded those areas pretty flat. The screws stick out an 8th inch and they should be set into the wood. Would that be possible? Need a good color match.

Have a look here for stocks, handguards and bayonet lugs: Ross Rifle Restoration

I have it torn apart for cleaning and stock repair. Primary crack is now fixed. Secondary small cracks are being clamped now. Metal is all cleaned, some finish loss and scratches here and there but no pitting. Not many markings on it. I am not going to try to remove the barrel now that I know what was done with it. As far as the stock goes, I'm going to attempt to find some matching wood and try laminating the two sides of the receiver and make an extension for the fore end and attempt to locate a bayonet lug front band. If I ever come across a better sporterized stock that hasn't been sanded to death or an actual stock that is affordably priced, I'll swap out the stock. I see the repro stocks and maybe someday I'll be willing to go that route but for now, it's a little much. I'll have to locate or make the small upper hand guard also.

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Originally Posted by Aragorn243

If I ever come across a better sporterized stock that hasn't been sanded to death or an actual stock that is affordably priced, I'll swap out the stock. I see the repro stocks and maybe someday I'll be willing to go that route but for now, it's a little much.

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I can't see a cast off stock being cheap. A repro stock is at least a given, here's a place to start for all you speak of. Ross Rifle Restoration

Already found that site Friday before I bought the rifle. $550 is way too much. If that's Canadian dollars, it's a little more worth considering but I wasn't able to figure that out. I decided before I bought it that wasn't going to be an option. For now, anyway. It would be nice and if I can't get this presentable any other way I may end up doing that.

In the meantime, I discovered the trigger spring is missing a turn. Actually was able to find this and it's on order. Safety wasn't working quite right, spring was too short to hold the sear high enough to lock the firing mechanism back every time.

As per their web site - "All prices are in Canadian dollars and do not include shipping. " I think it would be worth getting a new stock. Unless you have a lot of woodworking experiece you'll be chasing your tail trying to fix years of damage, modifications and neglect. Start fresh - it'll be worth the expense in the long run, especially considering the going price of a decent example of these rifles nowadays.

I have to agree, $550 CDN plus shipping is nothing compared to the price of a cast off original early Ross stock. Otherwise you're going to have a sporter perpetually. They also have the metal parts you seek.

Here's my issue with buying a new stock besides the price. I'll have to cut it at the muzzle end 1/2" because of the barrel setback which unless these were commonly done by the arsenal is going to ruin the stock for any future use on an unaltered firearm. Maybe it makes no difference, I don't know at this point but as I haven't seen another example of one with a barrel set back it is a concern. Is this particular rifle going to hold collector value or not as is with a set back barrel.

I have the wood working skills to make a fore end, so that's not an issue. I still need the front band but I've been told these are around and I'm patient.

Given all the alternatives, I'd love to plunk down $550 and be done with it but a lot going on right now here. I need more information before I can proceed with spending that much on a stock.

My general purposes for collecting these is I put on occasional presentations and I like having examples of the major types. Beat up as this is, it will suffice for now.

And I'm not saying I can't be talked into it. I know very little about Ross rifles. If this one will be worth the sum of it's parts including the stock in it's slightly altered state, I might be willing to get the new stock. And I suppose I could leave it full length and never put a bayonet on the rifle as another option.

So, all the above being said, what's the consensus on restoration and value. I'm not in it to sell it, but I don't want to take a bath on it either. Someday, someone, whether it is me, my wife, or my kids will have to dispose of this and I'd rather I or they get a fair return rather than a loss.

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Originally Posted by Aragorn243

I'll have to cut it at the muzzle end 1/2" because of the barrel setback

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I missed that part, yes, that's a definite drawback and problem. It would be neat and not unlike the Krag I bought and created a school gun from. It too had been cut back so I put in the work and set up to take a bayonet too...lots of hand work.

Having restored several Ross rifles, I must say that I would definitely NOT invest in the restoration of a rifle with a set-back barrel that is also in need of a stock. It is money you are highly unlikely to ever recoup. I would also not fire the rifle prior to looking at how that coarse 3 TPI left hand thread was addressed when the barrel was set back. Then again, I am super cautious when it comes to things like that.

Reach out to the guys at RRR and see if they have encountered the set back barrels before. Perhaps they have some kind of work around figured out already - it never hurts to ask.

Message sent to them, no reply as of yet.

I got word back from RRR this morning. They have heard of these rifles before and advise using light cast loads with IMR-4198 or IMR-4227 powders but did not provide any grain information.

So now I have to decide whether to keep it, look for a barrel in addition to everything else, continue with my original plan and make it look like it should building on the original stock, or part it out.

Leaning towards original plan while watching for another barrel.

Spring arrived and is installed so that is now working properly.

I actually found a repro stock for $280.00 so I made the investment. I figure I'll keep my eyes open for a replacement barrel and just keep it looking like it should. Not going to cut the stock for the bayonet lug which I still need to find anyway.

I did some work on the stock to try and make it thicker and it just didn't work very well and I hate it. The glue was the big problem, it never set well enough to properly sand it.

Stock came today and it really looks nice. Problem is, nothing fits in it. I have a LOT of hand work to do. It is correct but it is made slightly tight. The only thing not done on it is the hole in the butt stock, not looking forward to making that. I will most likely use the original hand guard as it has the pins and the new one doesn't plus the coloration matches so not a huge deal. Being original helps also.

Am curious about the inletting on these repro stocks. Some photos would be appreciated if you have time.

Well, they didn't do the butt at all which I wasn't happy about as it has to be the hardest thing to do. I worked on it today and it looks great with the buttplate on but I'm not bragging about the interior work. The slide door works perfectly, and the fit is great and the hole is drilled to the correct depth, that's all I care about. I still need to fit the slide door spring but compared to the rest, that should be fairly easy. Everything else is close but needs filed, sanded or the corners cut out for it to fit.

The buttplate I didn't have to do much with other than smooth out a high spot in the center and then cut out for the sliding door and the hole. Everything else doesn't fit but is close. I have to square out some of the round corners and file down the sides a bit to widen them. The worst seems to be the right side of the receiver area which is not flush at all but should be fine once fitted. The screw holes were not large enough for these flat end screws which are a real pain in the butt. Never saw anything like them before.

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Thank you for those photos; they'll be useful for other people I'm sure.

By the look of it these must be made on a pantograph copier; CNC is much more accurate than that. In fact the irregular progression of the circular marks left by the end of the cutter pretty much seals the deal IMHO.

Nice work on the buttplate inletting. Was the butt trap bored out when you got it or did you have to do that?

I had to do everything with the butt except for the exterior inletting for the buttplate itself.

That looks like a somewhat challenging project.
I'm thinking action in-letting screws would be helpful because of all that's going there.
Bet it turns out great however in the end.

Progress, it isn't perfect but I'm happy with it. I have a dremel, a utility knife and a small chisel.

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I haven't had time to work on this other than the weekends but I have the fitting complete Now I need to sand, polish, oil it, and start the long hunt for a bayonet band and a new barrel. It was not expecially easy but I took my time with my limited tools putting it together, taking it apart about 100 times to get it right without going too far. The interior was not cut out very well, had a lot of chiseling and cutting to do in there.

I did keep the original upper hand guard. The small handguard requires a ring I believe to hold it to the barrel. It fits tight as is but it should eventually have the ring, any suggestions for that?

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Not sure where or who that stock came from but it is NOT from myself (Ross Rifle Restorations) nor from a buddy of mine who also makes them.

The upper rear top wood ....... is ....... not sure how to word it. Something a dog would do! Well , it is not even close to what an original looks like!

However you did good bringing it together.

I noticed that but it’s nothing that can’t be fixed. Better to be too big than too small. The whole stock is slightly oversized.

Hell froze over and I got an original bayonet band/lug. I don't have time to work on it right now though but after the holidays I'll work at getting it fitted. It will be a challenge as has everything else. It had some damage that had to be fixed first and that at least I did. I've also found all but one of the other missing parts. Still need the spring for the magazine cutoff.

I also need to replace the barrel, no luck on that front.

I haven't done anything with this in quite a while. I started sanding the stock but didn't get very far and hung it up.

Really coming along. I've got an original rear upper handguard if you want it. Hope you get a line on someone who can duplicate the barrels. I found a guy who is very good but he quoted a minimum of $1500 to thread and chamber a contoured blank. His time and expertise is worth it but I can't afford that. And no telling the final bill. Need to find someone to 3d laser scan the thread of some barrels and maybe then I could get a program written and some barrels turned out on a CNC lathe.

Mk. II rifles (except the II**) have a very unusual breech thread. 3 t.p.i., left hand, modified buttress. The breeching was designed so that once the set screw was backed off, a barrel could be readily changed.
Finding a lathe that can cut 3 t.p.i. can be a difficult, and cutting the unusual thread is a challenge. I suppose the program could be written and tooling developed to duplicate the shank with a CNC machine.
Then barrel blanks of appropriate length and contour would have to be sourced.

I was doing some light cleaning in my office and found the bayonet lug yesterday so decided today would be a great day to fit it. Getting the front sight off wasn't a big deal. It was stuck on there pretty tight but I got it off with a block of wood and a child's toy hammer I keep for these things.

Fitting involved some file work but only took about an hour to do so not bad at all. It's back together, I still have a lot of stock sanding to do but the horrible little rear handguard is gone and replaced with the original one RossMKIIEnjoyer sent me. Looks a lot better now.

Now I'm down to the spring for the lifter and a new barrel but it at least looks complete now.

Two things I could use some assistance on. The length and size of the screw that holds the bayonet band on and the exact distance between the end of the bayonet lug (the front) and the receiver. I don't trust the rough fitting of the stock cuts and want to make sure I have it right before I drill it and put a screw in it.

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I'll try to get mine dug out Sunday, and give you what I can off of it.

OK. I get 23 7/8" from the front of the cap with the bayonet lug to the front of the receiver ring. I also measured almost exactly 22" from the rear of that band to the front of the receiver ring. Muzzle to front end of cap 3 1/2". The retaining screw comes in at .618" long, diameter at the unthreaded shoulder is .180". The screw head is elliptical in cross section, and the threaded end is flat, rather than pointed. Here's a pic. Hopefully that's precise enough for your purposes.

Thank you very much. Of course the screw has to be a weird one. I'll probably just get a smaller diameter normal screw for it until the real deal comes along and enlarge the hole. The measurements are great, that will allow me do make sure I have the length right for when I get a proper barrel for it.

To the best of my knowledge, all screws on a Ross are standard SAE thread. Three sixteenths is .1875".

Some good news, the bayonet lug is set at the correct distance without having to do anything more. The screw also appears to be identical to the middle band screw which I would think would help in locating a replacement.

I did some sanding today and put one coat of BLO on it. looks pretty decent.

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Aragorn, Great save and very nice work.