The last chapter of the Trapdoor rifles -serial number 561529 dated 1893.

Serial number-561529

Model 1884 -this particular model of 1884 was also known as “Model 1888 US Trapdoor Rifle” or “Ramrod bayonet model” or Model 1889.


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC09000-1.jpg

This was the last model of the Springfield Trapdoor long arms.

Manufactured between 1889-1893 serial numbers ran from 500,000 to 565,000- total
production -65,000 guns.

This particular rifle was manufactured in 1893.

Markings:
- Left side of stock opposite the lock plate inspectors cartouche "SWP" (Samuel W. Porter) over 1893.
-Circle cartouche on the underside of pistol grip with a faint “P” in the center.
-US on butt plate tang, “33” on stock just forward of butt plate tang.
-“US SPRINGFIELD” on lock plate.
-Left side of barrel forward of the breech -VP over Eagle over P.


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https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC09022-1.jpg


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...lNumber0-1.jpg


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC08612-1.jpg


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC09010-1.jpg


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC09034-1.jpg


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rking022-1.jpg



Sling:

U.S. M1887, marked with "Rock Island Arsenal" and inspection stamp "E.H.S." for E.H. Schmitten Leather Goods, Rock Island.
The sling is also marked "AEA”, for “Army Executive Agent” for insensitive munitions.


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC08627-1.jpg


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC08625-1.jpg


David

Sling stuff.

The two photos below show the AEA marking on the U.S. M1887 sling for the Trapdoor rifle.

” AEA.” (Army Executive Agent for Insensitive Munitions)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC03598-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC03585-1.jpg

I did not want to disassemble the sling for the photos for fear of damaging the leather so the pics are not as clear as they might be.


“ROCK ISLAND ARSENAL”
Inspector’s stamp” E.H.S,” (E.H. Schmitten Leather Goods, Rock Island, IL)



https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...DSC08627-1.jpg


David

Did you know there was a .30 cal trapdoor? Alphabeticaly numbered when they were testing out the replacement round for the 45-70.
And before anyone says BS, I once had a breechblock for one. Firing pin hole much smaller and the block was shaped differently, though still for a trapdoor.

John....no I did not know that.
Perhaps someone else might be able to relate to this?

David

Thanks for sharing. One the first, or one of the last, of anything is pretty neat to see.

I had read something about .30-40 trapdoors somewhere, like maybe a handful were made in working up the cartridge design, but I sure have never seen one.
I want to say I've read there is one at the SA National Historical Center, but could be imagining things there.

Well since they were numbered alphabeticaly, there would be a very small number. (not alphanumeric but just letters of the alphabet.

At least now I have an idea how the damm sling fits! I have a copy, but unfortunately its too SHORT:eek:

I had one offered to me and it was very nice rifle. Despite my lack of expertise, it was almost certainly the real-deal (they made more barrels than complete rifles-apparently and there is some fakery about). I think Joe Salter ended up with it. Price was 7500 if I recall correctyly (about 8 years ago).

My brother's Model 1884 Trapdoor is # 520518 . He is just starting to learn more about it. Thanks for the information.

mine is 522516 , ive not messed with my sling eather because its so delicate , but it needs to be refitted correctly ,

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ifles137-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ifles138-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ifles139-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ifles136-1.jpg

I never post about guns?But I couldn't resist posting on this valuable rifle.

http://www.trapdoorcollector.com/cal30.html

FWIW, I have 524856, cartouche date 1891.

As in most cases, the .30 Army (.30-40) cartridge was developed before the rifle was selected, so all the testing was done with modified TD rifles.

Incidentally, the officer who selected .30 for testing (and set the US Army standard for the next 80 years) was once asked why he picked that caliber. His reply was that it seemed like a nice round number. So much for ballistics, research, and so on.

Jim

I was emailed about a TD that a fellow vet owns. I had placed images of it in a prior post. Its' serial number is 565430

I have a Model 1884 Type 2 cadet rifle, 1893, #564257. One piece trigger guard with sling swivels. I believe the last of the last were made up for school use. Checking Waite / Ernst, I see the last 4320 rifles made were cadet rifles.

This is my addition to your post. She is serial number 503800:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...Trapdoor-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rapdoor9-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rapdoor4-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rapdoor7-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...rapdoor1-1.jpg

As of right now, I shoot only black powder in her. She is very accurate for a gun that is over 110 years old. I picked this beauty up about 8 yrs ago for $500. The barrel has a nice patina to it. But when I removed the stock from the barrel, the underside of the barrel was a beautiful blue. I believe she was made in 1889.

Here is mine. Ser # 5631xx. She's well warn but has a very nice bore. Only thing wrong is it presently has a Carbine back sight ladder.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...36Medium-1.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by drm2m

Sling stuff.

The two photos below show the AEA marking on the U.S. M1887 sling for the Trapdoor rifle.

” AEA.” (Army Executive Agent for Insensitive Munitions)

http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/d...ngDSC03598.jpg

David

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Amusingly I know who A.E.A. is.

Just picked up a similar rifle with the "A" on top rear of barrel. It has an 1891 cartoushe. The "A" per Waite and Ernst or Frasca and Hill indicates arsenal rework.
I am curious about the trap in the butt plate. I would surmise that it is there to provide for the cleaning rod as there is a bayonet rather than a rod.
Am I correct in this?

Well, since we are showing off:move eek:...here are some photos of SN 556144.

daveboy
Attachment 23305Attachment 23304Attachment 23303Attachment 23302Attachment 23301Attachment 23300

I look at serial numbers and production figures and I can never figure out why they made so darn many Trapdoors and Krags. The Army had what, 25,000 men? Does anyone know?

Condition wise and age wise -

WOW! Those are some beautiful late trapdoors. I only know a little about them and I didn't know they went to a rod bayonet later. That's really interesting. I guess the design carried onto the first 1903 Springfield with the rod bayonet before they decided to go back to a standard bayonet. I read that Teddy Roosevelt didn't like the rod bayonet idea for the 1903

Before my father passed away several years ago he gave me this older model trapdoor that his young business partner had given to him because he didn't want it.
(I didn't even know what it was when he gave it to me)

His partner's grandfather gave it to my dad's partner years earlier and he didn't like guns so he kept it out in his garage. When he got married his yuppie wife told him she didn't want a gun in the house so he gave it to my dad, and my dad gave it to me because he knew I collected old military guns. My dad had a large collection of hunting rifles and several handguns but he didn't have any interest in military rifles. He said after having to lug a heavy Garand around in Korea he had all he wanted of them.

It was covered in grime and surface rust, and the stock was so bone dry it was splitting open. I carefully cleaned it up and put probably the first oil on it that it had seen in 30 years or more, and also soaked the poor old stock with linseed oil. The open grain closed up fairly well after a while.

It was rode hard and put up wet (literally) After the hard life it had, I figure it was more a 'relic' condition but thought it looked nice enough to display as a wall hangar. At least it has a better home than piled with shovels and rakes in some garage.

It's dated 1878, SN 188218 -

I have a collection of WWI and WWII US firearms and it was interesting to discover an earlier firearm made by Springfield than my 1903's. I only know a little about trapdoors from what I've read on the internet. Does anyone know if there's a good basic book about trapdoors that tells the history etc? I'd like to learn a little more about them just for interest, but don't need an advanced book. Down the road I'd love to get a nice one, and maybe something I could shoot. I know there's a learning curve like everything else and I like to study up before doing anything.

Thanks,
~ Harlan

Here you go Harlon,

Take your pick.

Amazon.com: william brophy: Books

We both know about Poyer's book about M1903's, but I can't make any comments about this one listed here. Maybe Craig Reisch kept him on a truthful path.

Also, Flayderman's Guide to Antoque Firearms has a nice chapter on them with a lot of info.

HTH,

Emri

Thanks Emri,

I wouldn't have associated either of them with trapdoors but I trust them 1903's and M1 carbines.

The price is sure right at $15!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jsl1944

Just picked up a similar rifle with the "A" on top rear of barrel. It has an 1891 cartoushe. The "A" per Waite and Ernst or Frasca and Hill indicates arsenal rework.
I am curious about the trap in the butt plate. I would surmise that it is there to provide for the cleaning rod as there is a bayonet rather than a rod.
Am I correct in this?

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The butt trap was designed to hold the model 1879 take down tool as well as a little jag tip to screw onto the threaded end of the ramrod bayonet so that it can be used to clean the bore. It also held a broken shell extractor whose body was formed to ride down the bore on the end of the rod that was pushing it while the extractor body would turn freely with the rifling, being pretty much a cast of the bore itself. All of these items can be easily obtained to put into an 1888 rifle.

what a fantastic bunch of rifle , thanks for posting them , i love looking at what others have found ,

i did find and have the various buttrap items in mine , i really like the accoutrements

I recently acquired two trapdoors from an estate sale. One is a model 1884 with the rod bayonet in great condition. It has an 1893 cartouche, the Buffington rear sight, and was a shooter. The serial number is 5622**. It had an 1879 rifle tool and a case extractor in the butt trap.

The other is a model 1873 with an 1881 cartouche. It is also a shooter, but not as pristine as the first. It is stamped with a large GA in the wood on the top of the butt stock in front of the butt plate tang. It is also marked/stamped on the left side with S.V.G with a three digit number under it.

I will try and post photos as soon as I am able. Anyone know what the SVG represents or whether it is a desirable designation?

[IMG][IMG]http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/...rapdoorSVG.jpg[/IMG][/IMG]Photos of the 1873

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Originally Posted by Southerner

http://<a href="http://<a href="http...VG.jpg</a></a>Photos of the 1873

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http://i1089.photobucket.com/albums/...TrapdoorGA.jpg

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