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If I remember correctly, 7.62x25 can be reloaded with cut down and formed .223 brass, but where does one find a source of bullets? I'd like to get a Tokarev, but I ditched my SKS because I didn't want to shoot corrosive ammo so the same will likely go for the Tokarev. I suppose I could track down a 9mm barrel and mags if that'll be easier, but I find it hard to justify a $100 barrel and $25 mags for a $250 gun.
Someone here probably reloads for these things. Shipping ammo is expensive plus corrosive is a pain. ?????
Cut down .222/.223 was the method when 7.63 Mauser ammunition was hard to come by. The head diameters are not the same, .223 is somewhat smaller, so you are going to get some noticeable expansion. You are likely going to have to ream or turn the necks, to thin them down. Another option is to alter .38 Special cases, although that involves lathe turning the head to convert from rimmed to rimless. Notwithstanding your aversion to corrosive ammunition, cleaning an easily stripped pistol like a Tokarev is going to be a lot less work that forming a quantity of brass.
use a 30 mauser pretty well the same thing, or get starline brass, its quite a zippy cartridge
converting .223 is the cheapest solution if you have patience. I use a rotary pipe cutter to trim it close to spec, then I run through a sizing die and turn the necks a few thou. Not that hard really. And range pickup .223 is easy to come by.
There's tonnes of range range .223 at the local joint. the pipe cutter I can deal with, but I don't know how one turns down the necks a few thou. I don't have a lathe, but am amenable to picking up small usefully tools if there's something that will do the trick.
I'll probably get a case of surplus just for fun shooting, but I'd like to reload for it in the future to get a nice slow and quiet load for the indoor range in town.
On a related note, how are those Tokarevs from Epps? They're cheap and appear to have the same goodies as TradEx/P&S.
You don't need a lathe - you use a neck turning tool - a piloted tool akin to a case trimmer which has a cutter to shave off the ouside of the neck. There are also reamer dies which size the case and then you turn a reamer down in.
Yeah, most lathe-type case trimmers have attachments for thinning the necks. I use a Lyman universal case trimmer for this type of work, though if I don't need to get fancy, I find the Lee piloted trimmers faster and more convenient. Can't thin brass necks with them though.
A "poor man's solution" is to chuck the case up in your trimmer and rotate it holding a fine file to the neck.
if i were you id stick with starline brass if your time is worth any thing, as far as bullet,s for the 7.62x25 go any bullet for the 32 auto or 32 mag will work just fine . you can get load data from accurate powder manuel. hope this helps . and god bless you all
@happydude I've been reloading for the 7.62x25 for my Type 54 for awhile, using a home load I came up with for H110, 13 grains under a 90gr pill. I've been using cheaply available Starline brass from a local dealer here in BC. I got started after I bought a bunch of milsurp ammo only to discover that they jammed like SOBs in the Type 54's chamber, something about the lacquer sticking or something; every third bloody shot.
Anyways, I highly recommend the Starline brass like JHC II said, it works good and responds well to resizing.
@davidjyoung Thanks for the tip on the .32 ACP rounds, I didn't realize they were actually .309, I've been looking everywhere for some round nose FMJs to replace the hollowpoints I've been using. I've been relying on the Hornady 90gr .309 XTPs so far and they're not bad, bet every once in a while they'll jam in the feed ramp. Part# is 31000 if you're looking. Round nose feeds like a dream but has been a bugger to find.
As far as the .32 H&R Mag goes, I'd probably leave that one alone, I believe it's closer to .315 and I'd be a little leary about chambering a pill that tight. Having said that, I haven't actually seen one to measure it, so it's all just numbers I've read, I could be wrong.
As for the 9mm barrel, I've been looking everywhere and there very hard to track down north of the border, the best thing I've found so far is to buy a $100 Type 54 (Norinco M213) and cannibalize it for the barrel, bushing, link and pin. Canadaammo.com has the M213s on for $99 right now.
Anyway, a little lengthy for my first post but what can you do? :dunno:
+1 for Starline brass. 22 cents a case, I was quoted Jan/09
Well, I just bought a Tok TT-33, along with a case of ammo, so I should have a 7.62x25 for a while... And I suppose cleaning the firearm after firing corrosive ammo isn't that much of an extra burden considering the dollars saved...
Stll, Atrixium's solution of getting a Norinco copy that fires 9mm, I agree - I ordered 2 M213 from CanadaAmmo :)
;) I don't find 9mm has quite the same bark as the original dog. :D:D
Besides field stripping and cleaning is (to me at least) a piece of cake. IMHO :D
I like the bark and the fire I get from the 7.62x25 myself but my range doesn't so much. The VP in charge of the range just about filled his shorts when I pulled the trigger and they banned my Tok from the range :(
I'm getting the 9mm conversion so I can go back since the Tok is my only handgun at the moment and they're the only handgun range within a reasonable distance. They've pretty well got me by the short and curlies :\
Wow, that sucks. Is there a reason, other than scary gun and giiirrrrly vp, for banning it? Some ranges might have cal/bullet restictions placed on them by cfo.
You hit the nail right on the head there! I wasn't even using FMJs, they were hollowpoints :dunno:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete04
They do have some calibre restrictions, but a lot of the guys there like shooting their .40 .45 cal revolvers and I have a hard time believing my little Tok has more punch that a .45 :rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atrixium
When I bought my Type 54 from Marstar, 2 years ago, I aslo bought a 9mm barrel/magazine. Both the gun (of course new in the box) and the 9mm "combo" cost me 250$ + tax.
Had I known, I'd have bought an original WW2 TT-33. :mad: They are on sale between 250$ and 260$ here in Canada. :bitch: :banghead:
http://psmilitaria.50megs.com/pistol.htmltradeexcanadaQuote:
(PSAR842)- Russian Army Issue Tokarev TT-33 Pistol, Cal. 7.62x25 mm semi-auto, Izhevsk Arsenal dated 1944, Made in Soviet Russia, comes with holster and spare mag, similar to the one in photo, Nice bore, restricted, similar to the one in photos. Condition: VG, $250.00 Can + shipping. (Canadian F.A.C. or P.A.L. required).
I will probably never shoot my Type 54 anyway. I just bought it for collection.
Hell, I'd even trade mine with the 9mm barrel/mag for an original WW2 (not post war) TT-33 in good shape with the same accessories as PSMilitaria offers!
Oh, BTW, I found an article on the conversion of .223 brass into 7.62x25mm
Of course, I can not personnally garantee the safety or the exactitude of this article so, those who have done such a conversion before, please DO correct this article if need be.Quote:
I pulled this off of the net at rec.guns. It is for 7.62x25 Tok, but the same procedure shoud work for 7.63x25 or 30 Mauser. -FALphil
D. Reloading Information by Calibre
5. CZ-52 7.62x25 Czech Brass Manufacturing
by Randy C. Davis (rcdavis@flash.net)
from: rec.guns FAQ: VII.D.5. 7.62x25 Czech Brass Manufacturing
In my area, DFW, reloadable 7.62x25 brass is hard to obtain or very costly. Consequently, I worked up a procedure for making brass from 223 cases. These are readily obtained at many ranges by simply picking them up off the ground. In my case I reload for the 223 and can use cases that have dinged case mouths that are suitable for full 223 loads. While you might not want to use range pick-ups in your match H-bar these cases are by and large very suitable for 7.62x25 pistol brass. I have also used the same procedure with 222 and 222 Rem. Mag. brass with equal success. This procedure takes a lot of time but only has to be done once to obtain a batch of reloadable brass. Cases can also be made from 9mm magnum brass at somewhat less trouble but higher brass cost.
The procedure is as follows:
1. Cut-off the 223 cases to .99" with a tube cutter (available from your favorite hardware store).
2. Form the bottle neck by running into 30 mauser resizing die (Lee) Since the time I bought my dies, Lee has come out with a 30 Tokerev die. This should be even better but the 30 Mauser die works well enough so that I haven't invested in a "real" 30 Tokerev die. These cases need to be run up into the die as far as possible so that the neck is in the proper place for functioning. My brass had previously had the primer pockets reamed so this was not required with this batch of brass.
3. Trim cases to proper overall length (I use .975")
4. Run the cases into the 30 mauser expanding die
5. Outside neck turn to a wall thickness of 0.010". It's real important stay off the shoulder with the neck turning tool. I stuck the neck of a broken case in my chamber like by cutting into the shoulder which resulted in a ruptured case. It would also be possible to inside neck ream the cases but I haven't the tooling for inside neck reaming.
The only sources of reloading data that I have found are in "Cartridges of the World" and the new Accurate Arms reloading manual. No sooner than I had got these cases loaded but Gun World runs an article (August, 94) on reloading for the CZ52 by Dean Grennell. He advocates using AA#9 which but doesn't list any loads. It is possible to work up loads with AA#9 but they are not sanctioned by any load book of which I am aware.
In any event I can report on results with AA#7 and three different bullets-a 110g .308" dia. Rem JSP presumably designed for the 30 carbine, a .312" dia. 95g lead SWC which I use in 32 S&WL, and a .312" dia. 85g LRN bullet also for the 32 S&W long. The groove diameter in my barrel runs .3115" so 32 bullets should be OK in my gun. Proper jacketed 308 diameter bullets are availale from Old Western Scrounger but run more than $0.12/ea. All lead bullets were tumble lubed with liquid alox in addition to the wax lube and I used Winchester Small Pistol primers. Velocities are as follows:
S&B Factory Ball 1517 fps
110g JSP 7.0g AA#7 1140
85g LRN 7.0g AA#7 1224
95g LSWC 7.0g AA#7 1072
85g LRN 7.5g AA#7 1280
95g LSWC 7.5g AA#7 1198
I detected no pressure signs with considerable amounts of test firing for these particular loads. Every load functioned the pistol OK, however, the LSWC bullets will not seat properly with my die set and I intend to discontinue using anything except round nose bullets. The 85g LRN is my basic plinking load. The velocity on the 110g JSP is somewhat disappointing and I don't think I will buy any more. I was able to duplicate the S&B velocites with AA#9.
Grennell's CZ52 also functioned with old REM 30 Mauser factory loads. Mine would not function with loads made up from Remington 30 Mauser brass. He also got better velocities than I did. This suggests to me that each CZ52 is a law unto itself. Numerous people have pointed out that 7.62x25 brass can also be made from 9mm magnum brass more easily than 223 brass. While this is probably true, 9mm brass runs about $0.25/case and is hard to find without mail ordering.
Mandatory Warning: Slug your bore before using .312 lead bullets in a 7.62x25. Do not use these loads in the Tokarev pistol. These loads are near or at max. and appear to be safe in MY pistol. Work up for your pistol and verify these loads in the Accurate Arms manual before proceeding.
Anybody loaded any sabots for a cz52? I've got a few rounds of Winchester brass primed, some 223 bullets (pick a weight), the boots (plastic wads) and several different powders. I'm a bit reluctant to just start "working up" blindly. I welcome your input.
Recipe's anyone?
I'll answer my own question @ Load Data .This site lists numerous loads and powders for the 7.62 x 25 .
I think I have to join the chorus on .223 conversion. I heard that it could be done too, so I used a pipe cutter and ran them through the sizing dies (without the neck expander in place) Trimmed to length, then turned the necks.
after that I annealed the cases and ran them through the sizing die again with the expander button in place.
they work fine. I figure that if the supply of milsurp dries up, I'll still be shooting. Besides, the cast bullet (95 gr) works fine in the carbine and the Nagant revolver too.