Chinese Inglis with C Broad Arrow Stamp (pics)

Hello everyone.
I found a small but interesting C Broad Arrow stamp on my Chinese Contract Inglis. Can anyone tell me why this stamp is present? To me it means this pistol has seen service with the Cdn Forces at some point.

Is it possible that this Hi Power was captured from the Chinese by Canadians during the Korean conflict and put into Cdn service? :super:

The script on a usual CH marked Inglis translates to "Property of the Chinese Republic" and there are 6 characters involved.

As I understand it, the Chinese script translates to "Public (or) Official gun" but I do not know what that signifies.

Is it possible that this pistol was issued to a member of the Chinese Army? I've seen a few chinese inglis contract pistols that were never shipped and went into Canadian service. None of the examples I saw had Chinese script on them. I should never assume but I don't think the Chinese stamps were made in the Inglis factory - my gutt thinks they were stamped in China. Never trust your gutt instinct because its usually wrong right? :nono:

Anyone have some clues as to what this Pistol did in its previous life before I got my grubby hands on it? I need Clive's book :banghead:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...07/stamp-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../07/ing7-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../07/ing5-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../07/back-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...9/07/top-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../holster-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...9/07/all-1.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Riflechair

I need Clive's book :banghead:

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That is a good observation, Riflechair! ;)
It is an excellent resource, chock-full of detail. In fact, although I seem to have acquired something of an internet reputation as a minor "expert" on Inglis pistols, judging from the number of inquiries I receive at any rate, I only own two of them ..... and Clive's book - which is the source of about 99% of the information I pass along ..... so I do try to credit him at all times. Hopefully, the following "dissertation" will be of some use .....

The small C-broadarrow stamp you have noted on the right side of the frame of your pistol seems to have been applied during manufacture to most pistols - both the No. 1 ("Chinese" model) and the No. 2 ("Canadian" model) before the finish was applied and irrespective of ultimate destination, so in this case did not signify actual Canadian government acceptance or ownership, to my knowledge.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...inglsmk4-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ow_frame-1.jpg

I don't see the issue of this mark being indiscriminately present on both types of pistol addressed at all in Clive's book, either in Chapter Eight ("Standard Markings on Inglis Pistols") or Chapter Nine ("Special Markings") and can't recall seeing any other explanation. Perhaps, because production originally began at the request of China to supply them with High Power pistols as part of Allied Mutual Aid arrangements, it was originally used as a sort of "faux ownership mark" akin to the "U.S. Property" marks applied to Lend-Lease materiel ..... Who knows?

In any case, the matter is further complicated by the fact that the great majority of pistols (of either type) which actually entered Canadian service do not seem to have ever been given any additional Canadian government/military ownership marks anyway - perhaps it was felt that the C-broadarrow already on them was sufficient. Again, who knows?

Having said all of the above, my own No. 1 pistol does have a separate C-broadarrow stamp - rather larger than the other one - stamped on the left rear of the slide (a "regulation" location for an actual Canadian acceptance/ownership mark on a semi-automatic pistol) and is the only one I have seen with such a separate C-broadarrow, in fact -

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._broad02-1.jpg

Production of the No. 1 ("Chinese") pistol was halted in October of 1944 (at serial number 1CH6576) because it had proven impossible to get them to the Chinese. Due to Japanese blockade of China and control of its coastal areas, war aid had to be airlifted over the Himalayas from India, and limited resources in that regard resulted in the pistols being assigned such a low priority that the 4,000 or so which had actually made it to Karachi were simply sitting there in stockpile, with little likelihood of delivery. Clive indicates that application of the original six character Mandarin inscription ("National Property of the Republic of China") was actually discontinued during May 1944, though it is believed that all of the 4,000 pistols which had made it to Karachi had the marking. At the time production was halted in October something in the order of 14,000 of that model were still sitting in Canada or being completed by Inglis. It was all these completed but undeliverable Chinese model pistols which then ended up being diverted to Canadian and British service. My example (1CH4149) is one of the pistols completed toward the end of that "first contract run".

Late in the war (June 1944) production of No. 1 pistols for China was resumed at serial number 1CH6589 (no explanation provided by Clive for the apparent 12-number gap) and continued up to 5CH9928 when production halted for good in October 1944. The serial number of your examplel unquestionably makes it one of these "second run" No. 1 pistols. Most of these later-production No. 1 pistols did get shipped to China - ultimately to be used by one side or the other in the civil war between Nationalist and Communist factions (and possibly even against UN Forces in Korea - see below.) If I understand correctly, the "second run" Chinese-contract pistols were not marked in Canada with any Chinese characters - any such markings were applied in China. As you have already indicated, the particular two-character mark on yours (Gong Qiang) roughly translates as "Public (or Official) Gun".

As I'm sure you know, your pistol has unquestionably been refinished - that much is clear from the fact that the serial numbers on the frame and slide (engraved through the parkerized finish at time of completion by Inglis) are filled in with finish rather than remaining "in the white". The question is when that refinishing took place. According to Clive, the post-1949 Republic of China (i.e. Taiwan) is not known to have refinished or refurbished any of its Inglis pistols in any way, and they were quickly replaced with .45ACP pistols received as aid from the United States. As for the People's Republic of China, certainly by the time of the Korean War Soviet armaments aid had resulted in their standard military pistol cartridge being the 7.62x25mm Tokarev rather the 9x19mm, but apparently many Inglis pistols remained in service until as late as the 1980s, primarily with police and other armed civil units. Clive notes that ".... many pistols later released as surplus from the People's Republic show evidence of having undergone at a minimum a complete refinishing, and in some cases a complete overhaul .....", apparently in military arsenals.

At the end of the day, I suppose it may never be possible to determine whether your pistol is one which was refinished/refurbished by The People's Republic, or was refinished by a surplus dealer or the like .....

As previously noted, the separate C-broadarrow on my own "first run" CH-numbered Inglis would definitely seem to signify Canadian issue. The two after-market magazines which came with it (each stamped on both the body and baseplate with the serial number of the pistol) indicate that this particular pistol is one of the 1.578 pistols given to Belgium in 1950 as post-war aid. Canada's policy was to standardize its own small-arms arsenal as No. 2 pistols so most, if not all, pistols sent elsewhere after the war - i.e. Belgium, Holland, etc. - came from the No. 1 pistols in Canadian service or stores, with a view to disposing of as many of those as possible. (In fact, a later program resulted in any remaining No. 1-configuration pistols in Canadian hands being modified to No. 2 specifications by removing the adjustable rear sight and milling off its base, and then pinning and brazing a No. 2-type fixed sight in its place. Thus my Canadian-marked pistol in unaltered No. 1 configuration (albeit refinished) is a relatively "rare bird" that I am very pleased to have in my collection.)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...nglis_sm-1.jpg

Extremely Informative
Thank You

Grant, is that the Inglis you got from Lock, Stock and Barrel in B.C.?

Hal O'P -

Yes, indeed.

("Oldtimers' Disease" has me ever more firmly in its grasp, so I kinda "disremember" - :dunno: - were you the kind soul who referred me to them?)

I found a number of these pistols in Canadian service with the adjustable rear sight and groove for shoulder stock. I believe some destined for China were used to fill other Canadian contracts or just got mixed up. Anyway, a wild guess that about one in a hundred were this configuration being used by Canada. I was horrified years ago to degrease new 9mm with the fragile sticker still on the frame and put them in service to replace other pistols send to montreal for rebuild. Later I wound up in Montreal at 202WD rebuilding 9mm, Fn's and smg's etc etc... FN suppliued replacement barrels for the 9mm, they were easy to identify from the breech, seeing a round line where the barrel mated to the surrounding ramp and lock ribs.