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Hello everybody, longtime lurker first time poster. I recently picked this up, mainly because I could not pass it up for the price. In your opinion would it even be worth the time, money and effort to try and restore this gun, or leave it and shoot it? Attachment 52165Attachment 52173Attachment 52172Attachment 52171Attachment 52170Attachment 52169Attachment 52168Attachment 52167Attachment 52166Attachment 52174
Welcome to the Milsurps site Beachloan
Really up to you looks pretty good but you'd need a new barrel, front sight complete, selection of + - sight blades, bottom & top woods, rear wood retainer, mid band, front band, a selection of bolt heads perhaps other bits and bobs then fitment of the barrel best a gunsmith does these bits bedding the bottom wood. Others may be able to tell you if the serial No. and Manu date is of any significance though it does not have and FTR on the receiver but has been Bubba'd rather significantly what say you forumers.
Depending on your view and not trying to deflate your endeavours probably wait until a complete one comes up at the right price, as no matter which way you look at it and unless you are never going to sell it will always be a bitsa and as a last thing it will cost you more to buy all the bits than it would to get an original.
If you got it for $50.00 and it shoots ok just leave it as it is all a matter of personal preference I guess, if you push on with a resto good luck and keep the thread going so the forum can assist you with any hurdles you may encounter. :thup:
If you follow the threads and info here you could do all of it except the barrel as that is a specialist task and something I would not mess with unless you are a competent gunsmith yourself
Very rewarding project if you want to learn about the Enfield inside out. Lots of great articles here about wood fitment.If patient the wood and small bits can be had without breaking the bank. The barrel would be the trickey part. The price of the barrel and having it properly fitted might prove cost prohibitive. Brian @ BDL (bdlltd.com) would be a good place to start.
beachloan: Not a lot of Longbranch Mk I (no-star) rifles out there. How long is the barrel? Is the bolt numbered to match? I think I'd be inclined to think about restoring it.
Ridolpho
If it shoots well, then I'd leave it "as is".
What Jim said too many parts to acquire starting with the barrelQuote:
Originally Posted by jmoore
This is a no4 mk1 and not mk1* If I came across this in NZ and the receiver looked as good as this I would snap it up and restore it myself as its pretty rare. There is no reason you cant shoot it while restoring it either just keep shooting until you have collected the parts. LB is a good version as parts tend to be pretty easy to come by in good nick and cheap.
Congrats.
It's a comparatively rare rifle and so I would restore it - and do it properly!
Congratulations on a rare find. I think you should take a shot on restoring it.. :thup:
Here's some additional information that might help you ...
With thanks to Advisory Panel member Lance, check out the entry in the Canada - Milsurp Knowledge Library (click here)
1941 No.4 Mk1 Long Branch Rifle (click here) .....
Barrel, receiver, bolt and wood were all match serial numbered on 1941 LB's ...
http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...20_Medium_.JPG(Click PIC to Enlarge)http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...20_Medium_.JPG
http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...20_Medium_.JPG(Click PIC to Enlarge)http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...20_Medium_.JPG
http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...20_Medium_.JPG(Click PIC to Enlarge)http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...20_Medium_.JPG
For additional comparisons by collectors, Lance has added pics of "waisted" front sight protectors mounted on a SMLE Mk VI Trials rifle and a No4. Mk1 Trials rifle.
Regards,
Doug
Could I ask, what did you pay for it, as that would be helpful for site members benefit?
I don't have any spare Long Branch barrels but I do have a couple of decent Savage barrels on hand. Patiently awaiting word from Criterion on the new production barrels.
Ridolpho: The barrel is 22" and the bolt does not match. Thank you for your input.
---------- Post added at 12:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:39 PM ----------
Well Gil, I am in somewhat of a unique situation in that I own a pawnshop and sometimes (especially with older firearms) have people walk in the door and just want to get rid of them. I paid $250.00 for this, a 1943 Mosin M91/30 and a Mossberg 152.
---------- Post added at 12:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:49 PM ----------
I would like to thank everybody for the warm welcome and wealth of knowledge I have already gained. I am still trying to decide what to do with this one, buy it myself and restore it (I do have a nice little collection of wartime firearms) or sell it off to someone that would do it correctly. From what I have read and some of the comments here it would seem only fitting that this was put back to as close to original as possible.
The nice thing about that rifle is not just that it is a LB no4mk1 (with no *) but also that it does not have the FTR markings from the UK electro etched onto the sidewall, or even worse had a conversion to mk1/2.
If it was on the Northern side of the US/Cdn border I would be happy to make a deal with you on it, but it being on the Southern side, the import fees make it uneconomical.
I'm sure limpetmine or one of the other LB guru's will chime in if I am wrong, but LB made approx. 15,000 No4 MkI (no star) rifles which I classify as rare; however, a MkI/2 is much rarer than a MkI. I am not sure if anyone knows how many are out there, but I have never seen one for sale and only know of a few collectors that own one. Two Enfields that are at or near the top of my current "Holy Grail" list are a 1941 LB MkI/2 and a 1941 Savage MkI/2.Quote:
Originally Posted by stencollector
I think you can get LB un-issued and unstamped bolts in the USA, $30US I think.
Springfield Sporters has some Longbranch parts.
Beachloan,
What a steal good on you and thanks for the info
If you do attempt restoration, it seems worthwhile to attempt a sleeve repair of the front end of the barrel. It is a '42 serial numbered to the action. The early Long Branch sight protector is a scarce part, and the early cocking piece is a little tough to find as well, but otherwise it would be straightforward.
What made/makes me shy away from the restoration route is the probability that the bolt is likely a replacement. That and the potential that the barrel needs the "heave-ho" as well. At which point it's just a cool action body.
Yes jmoore, you are correct the bolt is a replacement SN#y16618.
It seems that this one might just be a little more work than I have time to put into and although I would love to add it to my collection I don't think it is going to make it. If you walked into my store and saw this sitting as it is now, what is a fair price?
"We can rebuild him; we have the technology" ;)
" Better, stronger, faster!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Surpmil
A little less than 6 million I hope!
Only if you do not buy the parts on E-bay.Quote:
Originally Posted by CODFan
I am glad I am not the only one who remembers the 70s.
HOH: I'm still trying to forget the episode where Larry Csonka guest-starred.
Ridolpho
They say if you can remember the 60s you weren't there!Quote:
Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY
At least not in CA. ;)
To answer the OP's last question about value, I have had four or five LB MkIs now and have paid everything from $150. for a nice original complete example to $300 for one just like yours.
To really test the US market these days I guess you could put it on Gunbroker or list it here and take offers?
It's quite restorable IMO and should be restored. You probably won't find the really early parts like the hinged upper band and the waisted foresight protector, but personally I doubt those parts were on more than the first few thousand rifles. The barrel should be saved and sleeved IMO. It's been chopped far enough back you could probably make the joint under the forend where it wouldn't be seen.
The wood you have is a bit interesting because it is beech or birch apparently but with the early MkI configuration which includes the recess on the bolt handle side for the magazine cutoff that was never manufactured. So, if it is LB wood, that would be the first LB MkI forend in beech or birch I remember seeing.
Also interesting that the rifle has probably been refinished (the engraving on the receiver wall is not 'in the white') but the finish appears to be very similar to the original - or am I wrong? Were the MkI's phosphated after they were engraved?
Hinged forebands are easy now: Springfield Sporters lists the LB hinged band for $50. They tried them at $300 for a while IIRC, but have since lowered the price.
Low cut wood is not that hard to come by, but the real challenge will still be that front foresight protector. Although as surpmil mentions, it may likely never had it in the first place.
Plan on spending another $125+ for a LB MkI Back sight.
Also needs the Early Style Round Cocking Piece. $?
I have to thank you for that reply. I went downstairs for a totally unrelated matter, and found myself drawn to the hoard of Enfield parts I picked up at the Calgary show last weekend. It is a beautiful hoard, as any large group of Enfield no4 in the grease parts will be. I soon found myself opening up some of the bags of greasy parts, and amongst the 33 new in the grease LB cocking pieces I found this one used one:Quote:
Originally Posted by CODFan
That's the one, with the as yet unexplained mysterious little markings stamped in. I'm just redoing one that some target chappy took the hard facing rod to back in the day. Had to grind it all back and then have it built up with TIG.
Perhaps the letters represent successful measurement of inspection criteria? Although I do note that there are some slight differences in the lettering between mine and the one shown in the knowledge section on a no4mk1 LB. Mine has a Z where there should be a C. As well, mine has the addition of the larger number 9.
A B C D E .....
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ccc56ccc-1.jpg
One here "C5" and one "12CD5"
Mystery!
This one is in a '42 LB MK1*
Attachment 52559
That is a Jim Dandy looking sporter as far as they go, so I would be inclined to leave it and use it as is. I cannot see any gain to be had by buying somewhat expensive restoration parts and still ending up with a non original gun. That is about the first sporter I have laid eyes on that I would probably pay a significant sum for as an extra hunting rifle to enjoy.
This is a Parker Hale sporter!!! Leave it as is as I suspect they will become collectible in time!!
May I ask why you think this is a PH sporter? Because the ramp is a Parker Hale product?Quote:
Originally Posted by S-A-M3
Hi Limpetmine, Basically yes, but the proof could be the small PH stamp on the right rear of the action? Don`t know how many PH made,but there are a lot of them for sale on TM here in NZ.
Does the finish appear correct for a PH sporter though? My own Standard No4 has a much darker finish than this one appears to be?
If it's a sporter it's a bottom-end one: no sporting stock or barrel markings. I would say the value of restoring a MkI Long Branch is far greater than the value of preserving what might be a Parker Hale chop job.
Parker Hale sporters are about as unique as Leyland 'special editions' There's millions of them!
S-AM3, I'm not seeing it.
It looks like a hundred other "sporters" . In fact, it is very similar to one of my 1941's that I'm getting ready to send to Brian Dick to do a barrel swap. I'll check it over real well for the illusive PH stamp.
The poor 42 that is the barrel donor will be stuck in a plastic stock forevermore. Shudder.
Quote:
Originally Posted by S-A-M3
Hi Limpetmine, Despite my comments about leaving it as is, the fact that it is a No4 Mk1 LB, I think you are doing the right thing and building it back to original!!, regardless whether it has PH markings.
Lets see a photo of it finished. Stuart.