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Watched Badger's video of members playing around with tennis balls now I wanna play!!:)
Liberty Tree collectors has them for I think $135.00 seems a little pricey for what it is but anyway my question is, does it just hook on the the nose piece? Or does one also need some sort of adapter? Also, what can I use to launch tennis balls .i.e. blanks?
Yep... hooks right on, no adapter needed:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3/07/cup-1.jpg
Slapped wrist.......... I think that the photo shows the cup upside down! The half moon recessed sector on the cup, see it....., aligned with the muzzle......? That should be facing downwards to sit across the bayonet boss of the nose cap.
Additionally, there is a correct method of fitting the cup discharger to the rifle by adjusting the inner 'nozzle' so that on recoil, the load is taken on the face of the muzzle and not onto the nose cap. The claws and nose cap hold the cup assembly but the barrel supports it so that the recoil forces act down the length of the rifle THROUGH the barrel
I mention this detail in a thread some time ago so I won't go into it again. But this is the reason the cups were 'fitted' to a particular EY rifle. But as you won't actually be lobbing grenades, I don't suppose that it matters toooooo much!
Springfield Sporters lists them for $100.
I did some searching I'll do more tonight, before I do anything I want to fully understand it. I saw that video and the hamster in my head started turning the wheel! I know it's going to get me in trouble.....HeHe!! I'll bet some moron is thinking, how fun would it be to fill a tennis ball with black powder an some cannon fuse and launch it into his neighbors yard. Which is of course very dangerous and highly illegal.
It'd be even BETTER if for some reason the blank was a dud................ And the fuzed tennis ball of black powder just sat smouldering in the cup eh!
See my photo of what happens when a grenade explodes while still in the cup
Here's the "fun" video in The Screening Room (click here) bring referred to ... ;)
http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...ching_0002.jpg(Click PIC to Enlarge)http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...ching_0001.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...ching_0003.jpg(Click PIC to Enlarge)http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...ching_0004.jpg
It's a range video of members engaged in The Great Canadian Tennis Ball Challenge competitive match at Milcun, using WW1 Enfield Wire Wrapped Grenade Rifles and Dischargers (click here).
Make sure you turn ON your speakers and turn the volume up to hear the sound effects !
There's also another Knowledge Library entry on WW1 Enfield Wire Wrapped Grenade Rifles and Dischargers (click here), showing close up pics as well as instructions on how to use them.
Regards,
Doug
Allegedly Coors beer cans are the right diameter. Allegedly. By the way that's the only good use for Coors
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Don't know what would be funnier, the blank indeed firing or a group of fat guys all running in different directions! Spilling their Coors...
Peter, some of the Indian made cups have the nose cap bayonet stud notch cut into both sides of the grenade launcher cup bracket assy.
I object.Quote:
Originally Posted by gsimmons
Coors is actually also pretty good for extinguishing a campfire (sorry HOH). I have one of these cups with "S.I.R." stamped on it. Anyone know what that might be?
Ridolpho
That is what urine is for. I did not notice you were from the great white north. If you like Molsen I get the comment and I may have to admit that you are probably correct on both counts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ridolpho
Ridolpho, I'd like to know about the S.I.R. as well. The one that came with my Ishapore is marked the same way.
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South/Southern India Railways/railway company
Thanks, Peter!
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HOH: No nationalistic sentiments here. Molsen Canadian is also, at best, a beer-like substance. There are some good Canadian beers with a bit of flavour! Among US beers I'm a loyal "Oly" (Olympia) man as once, when I was a lad, it was the only beer on our local shelves during a government liquor distributors strike. Oh, and thanks Peter for that info. about "S.I.R.". Do you know if launcher cups were manufactured in India?
Ridolpho
Rudolpho, that IS the manufacture.
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After some research I have a few questions.
Is it nessesary to have the wire wrapping? "Which I don't"
I found a post where the fellow used a compound charge of 2400 & black powder. Has anyone just used BP filled blanks? If so which grade, ff fff or ffff?
IMHO, Yuengling, which is a regional brew is a nector of the Gods. Molsen is like bedding a fat chick... It's fun until your friends find out.. No insults intended..;)
Having an EY/grenade firing rifle without the binding is like having a Taxi without a sign - or a mickey mouse watch. Ok to look at but not much use when you need to tell the time. Just my take on things. I relate somewhere how the very last EY's were re-wired in the late 60's/early 70's.
Back to the re-wiring programme. The irony was that the old lathe bed with slowed down reduction motor was still at the workshop when it was (all-but) closed down last year. As was a big roll of the same wire we used to bind them PLUS the EY stencil used to mark the butt. And nobody else knew what it all related to............
Before reading your article Peter I couldn't wrap my head around how a rifle could be chucked to a lathe. Just goes to show there's a right tool for every job.
My rifle is regular Mk3 no wire wrapping, I don't intend to wrap it. Is it required to shoot tennis balls? I would think not since its not a 1 1/2 lb ball or are there other forces at work which require the strengthening? Or I'm totally off base and a EY rifle is required?
Most of the Indian RFI ones have the double cut for the bayonet boss.
Attachment 44496
Yep, got that Warren. A good idea too!
Those would be Part Five items here - not good to get caught with.
I see your edit Peter. well, guess I'll have to add a EY rifle to the collection because now that I know about this subject I HAVE to have one.:thup:
The Indian ones are the easiest cheapest to find.
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GSimmons: I'm still wondering about the S.I.R. being the place of manufacture. Skennerton in "The Broad Arrow" lists a bunch of unit markings (in India) that includes the South Indian Railway Volunteer Rifles (S.I.R.R.) Madras Railway Volunteers, Southern Maharatta Railway Rifles, etc. I see a trace of a fourth letter after "R" on mine but the only other visible marks are an A/18 and a 26 on both cup and clamp.
Ridolpho
SIR was a private contractor like NWR (North West Railways) MIL (Metal Industries, Lahore), who made bayonets during WWII.
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And who exactly said that they were Sect 5 items pray tell Mk7? Where are they EVER described in ANY official document as anything other than a cup discharger?
Now that would make sense to me. I know my share of infantrymen and if it's not that easy then there'll be a problem...mounting it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren
Made some grenade cartridges with a combination of Unique and black powder and used a cardboard disk to cover the neck opening and sealed with a dab of paint. New tennis balls that are still fuzzy fit tight but used worn smooth ones need to have duck tape wrapped around them to seal them better. All balls need duck tape placed on the bottom of the ball facing the muzzle to prevent a hole being blown in the ball.
It was fun and the ball only went a little over a hundred yds because it's too light and could be caught by a guy down range. If interested I can try to find the powder charge I used. Ray
Thanks Ray, yes that would be great. I think it was your old post I read where you finally had success with 2400/BP. Why a compound charge and not just straight BP?
You're right it was 2400 powder, I recall now. I had read some where that the original load was a combination of smokeless and black powder that's why I used the powders. I'll try to find the load I used as I worked it up and it seemed to shoot the ball furthest, Ray
Ok, I found the thread on making the cartridges on Gunboards, here it is. Ray
Need help in making grenade launching cartridges?
Roger that, thanks for the info...
An opinion received by the HBSA from the Home Office in 2000:-
Queries have been received about the legal status of grenade launcher attachments, one to a K98 Mauser rifle owned by a Second World War re-enactor and the other acquired by a museum and then seized by H.M. Customs. These are cup-like devices that attach to the barrel of the rifle so that a grenade can be launched from the rifle by the power of a blank round.
Grenade launchers would be subject to section 5(1A)(c) of the Firearms Act 1968 (as amended) as a launcher designed for firing an unstabilised exploding missile. While the launcher attachment itself would be a (section 1) component part, when it is attached to the rifle it would become a prohibited weapon.
It is unlikely that any grenades can be found for this launcher and the risk to public safety is minimal.
We suggest that the owner of a grenade launcher may wish to get it de-activated; there is a Home Office standard for rocket launchers, mortars etc, and the work needed on an attachment of this type would be very limited. This is what we have advised the police to suggest to the two owners of these, and there is no suggestion that anyone is going to be prosecuted.
We would not be surprised if these items are regarded by some collectors and dealers as accessories, however, they are unusual items and this cannot be a common problem.
This is a précis of a fax received by our Secretary on 18/2/00 from the Home Office
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
This thread was started to ask about attaching & using the launcher NOT to argue about nonsensical firearms laws.
As I have no idea what section 5 is nor want anything to do with it, can we keep it to use please.
Steady on Warpig......... This is a forum and because YOU didn't want this info doesn't mean that nobody else does or indeed might be interested in reading about it. That is the VERY nature of a forum......yes? Reading back, I would venture to suggest that reloading cartridges to fire tennis balls isn't part of what you originally asked either except in a very convoluted or roundabout way. But it came on board and you're grateful. Yes again? Lets keep the forum a forum I say
Anyone else agree or disagree on this point
With all do respect Peter, I would argue its political. Would it be appropriate for me to give my opinion on U.K firearms laws? I would say no... Why? Because it would lead to politics.
What if the U.S had laws that said you could own an MG car but it could have no engine and only be painted pink? I think you'd have something to say no? If we were a automobile forum that had rules against politics where would that put you?... And me for that matter.
That was my thinking, I in no way wish to offend nor muzzle anyone if we're going to talk about let's talk about it.
Perhaps MK VII can start a thread.
Respectfully.... Jeff
I dont find the answer to Peters question political at all, its just an answer that Mk V11 has kindly posted, in fact its news to me and an eye opener, there are not many threads on this forum that stay on topic for long, bit like being in a pub shouting over each other and the conversation soon changes, the benifit of the forum is your not racing to get a gallon of ale down you before last orders, and dont suffer from memory loss after 5 pints and trying to remember someones name etc...
But warpig......., you're missing the whole point..... And please don't for one minute EVER think that you you will ever offend me (line 5, thread 39) - you won't! People junior and senior in rank (when I had a rank that is!) to me say they appreciate straight talking blokes! There are hundreds of 'political' type questions being asked on the forum that have no bearing on me at all. Indeed, I even asked some about US Law (like what happens if you find your dads old Thompson SMG in the garage one day bneing one example). And one for those living in Germany, answered by Villiers and others....... Do they still find old firearms/weapons hidden in Germany? They'll never affect me in a million years, although I'd like to find my dads old Thompson (- or Sten in our case here!).
By definition, forums WILL go off thread. It is what it is!
But just to go off thread ever MORE..... Regarding the answer you commented on (thread 36) then that's interesting for ALL of the UK SMLE owners because I was actually asked for an expert opinion to take to law on that VERY subject. And on the basis of what I said in my official capacity, any further legal proceedings were stopped. Now, to be honest, there's a lot of UK SMLE owners WOULD like to know that
Fair enough..
Even more off topic... Is it appropriate that every morning before work, I stand in my neighbors yard and do the Maori Haka war dance and challenge him to a fight to the death?:madsmile:
Copy my wife's landscape design will he.... " I don't think so "
Warpig1976
Lighten up Francis
On my neighbor.?? no way.!! this is the guy I want to launch tennis balls at.!!:madsmile:Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederick303
OK.
I laughed...
Refrence to the charicter in the Dirty Dozen?Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederick303
It's from Stripes...
I was not even close.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarPig1976
I have a golf ball launcher that threads onto an AK47. Both are legal to own here in Texas. However,,,,,, according to the two police officers I talked to at the golf course it's still illegal to discharge a firearm inside the city limits.Quote:
On my neighbor.?? no way.!! this is the guy I want to launch tennis balls at.!!
I know,, That's the catch 22 for me also. I belong to a VERY conservative club so using one there would be frowned on. I'm fortunate enough to have a mountain house in the pocono mts,,up there is where I'd have to play...
How far can you launch a golf ball Vincent? How does it attach to the threads?
That AK47 variant is VERY interesting Vince......... But how in heavens name do you shut the gas to the piston off? On our L1A1 rifles we could cut the gas off by rotating the gas plug. If you didn't, the gas cylinder would split wide open for about 4"
The golf ball launcher has the same LH threads as the AK47 muzzle brake. It screws on just like a muzzle brake.
It will launch a golf ball 100 to 150 yards depending on the blanks, condition of the ball and the wind.
Some Yugoslavian and Polish AK47s are set up to have the option to launch grenades. They have a valve that closes off the gas to the piston. This one has the Polish gas valve.
Attachment 45124
You can also buy a golf ball launcher for the AR15. I don't know how you would shut off the gas though. Come to think of it, they look a bit long and I doubt people buy them to launch golf balls. You know,, a long tube with 1/2x28 threads at one end. :move eek::nono:
Ah, got that Vince. We had some captured Hungarian AK's where lifting the grenade sight would shut the gas off. I was thinking of a straight screw-on version. There 's bound to be one squaddy in every section who would fire an AP grenade from a standard rifle!
Here's my recently acquired Japanese WWII Type 100 grenade launcher that was an early design where the grenade could be propelled by regular full power issued ammo and not blanks as the other launchers used at the time were.
Because the rifle fires regular ammo it is dangerous to fire pointing up when launching a grenade unless it is done in a safe bullet impact area so I'm going to made some blanks like I did for the LE launcher to see if they would work. The only difference I can see is with the Type 100 the gas is vented up into the cup were in the LE launcher it's directly into the cup. The Golf balls are a loose fit but probably will work if patched with a paper napkin like I did with the tennis balls on the LE. Should be fun to try. The gas adjustment amount is opened and closed and locked with a wing nut on top the bullet passing through a tube on the bottom. Ray
Attachment 45134Attachment 45135
You don't see those every day.!!
Don't think a blank will work though, unless you block the bore somehow
We had a Corps Officer killed when a 'bullet trap' AP grenade went off while on the end of the rifle as he fired it. I seem to recall that the accident occurred when they were being tested for some middle eastern nation I have a feeling that it was an Aust made at ADI-Maribyong grenade. The subsequent enquiry didn't really get anywhere because the grenade and the end of the rifle had disintegrated too. Never established the cause.
You're right. The bullet tube needs to be blocked for a blank to work, RayQuote:
Originally Posted by WarPig1976
Pulled from Lone Sentry website.
The new Model 100 (1940) Japanese grenade launcher, has been test-fired by an Ordnance intelligence unit and found to have a maximum range of 132 yards. This grenade launcher is believed to be designed for use on the Japanese 7.7-mm Model 99 rifle. However, it can also be used on all other Japanese rifles. The launcher has the advantage of using only standard ammunition, and no special ammunition is required. The projectile used is the small Model 99 (1939) grenade. The grenade is propelled by the powder gases from ordinary ball ammunition.
The accompanying sketch shows the Model 100 grenade launcher attached to the rifle, and with its ammunition. The launcher weighs 1 pound 9 ounces and consists primarily of a small tube and a large tube mounted side by side.
The Model 99 grenade is placed in the large tube with the safety pin removed. The gun is aimed, and elevated at the proper angle, and a round of ball ammunition is fired. As the bullet passes through the small tube, the tube is blocked, and the expanding powder gases pass into the large tube through a by-pass, ejecting the grenade. The force of setback arms the grenade, and it explodes 4 to 5 seconds after leaving the launcher.
The wing nut, which can be seen in the pictures, operates the closure to a small gas port, which is probably used for adjusting ranges. The rifle can be fired from the shoulder when using this launcher. When this launcher is used, the report of the rifle is slightly muffled. The grenade is plainly visible in flight, and it leaves a trail of smoke behind it.
On preliminary firing tests the range at 30 degrees elevation was found to be greater than the range at 45 degrees. The ranges at 30 degrees were as follows:
Type of Rifle Range
7.7-mm Model 99 132 yards
6.5-mm Model 38, long 102 yards
6.5-mm Model 38, medium 111 yards
6.5-mm Model 38, short 117 yards
Good info WP76. They made the launcher to fit the t-99 or the T-38. The bullet tubes were made with different id bore sizes. The one I have is for the T-38.
When I first got the launcher I put it on a T-38 rifle and it really made the rifle/launcher combination a bit heavy and awkward so I was curious if it would fit on a T-38 carbine and as you see it does.
The launcher on the T-38 carbine is much lighter and easier to handle and I wonder if they actually did use the launcher on the carbine also as it would be a lot handier and easier to use as a grenade launching platform? I don't see there would be a problem as the light US M1 carbine was used to launch grenades so I don't see why the T-38 carbine couldn't be used. I bet you might even get a little more range/distance out of the shorter barrel which produces more muzzle blast/pressure?
As far as shooting the 100, I think there might be a problem shooting objects out of the 100 unless you are out in no mans land as you are firing a live round up in the air which is a no no and dangerous unless nothing is in front of you.
However I bet blanks would work in it like it did in the Lee Enfield as basically the principal is the same only instead of the gas going straight in the cup like the Enfield it just channels up and into the cup. I may have to try that. Golf balls would be perfect to try, they are just a bit undersize but could be patched for a tight fit and I think it would be easy to convert the 100 launcher to shoot blanks by just blocking the bullet tube in front of the of the muzzle with a thin metal or cardboard disk so all the force of the blank is diverted up into the cup. I don't see why it wouldn't work with the 100 launcher and can't see anyway that it could hurt the rifle or launcher, Ray
Attachment 45298Attachment 45297