The Nepal Martini Henry rifles...........

Before I get into the rifle I've got to apologize for not even realising this board was here, which is pretty unobservant for someone who has been on CSP almost since day one.

A friend of mine bought one of the Nepal rifles mail order and brought it to me to refinish for him. I have no idea which model it is other than there is no cocking lever on the right side of the receiver like the ones in the movie Zulu and it is the short levered model as opposed to the long lever.

The rifle is a mess. It is covered with 100 year old cosmoline and rust and the butt stock has a huge crack the length of it and about 1/32" wide going through to the center. He bought it with inspection and return rights and I told him to return it and by a M1 or a carbine instead but he insists that it's going to look beautiful on the wall of his eatery so refinish it.

I went to the Milsurps restoration forum and they told me to clean it "gently and lovingly" and not use steel wool or anything harsh on it, which is really good advice on a collector's grade rifle but this is a very neglected and sadly P.O.S. old rifle that's going to end up on the wall being glanced at by people between beers.

Long story short, a toothbrush with brass bristles, lots if OO and OOOO steel wool, half gallon of paint thinner and two rolls of paper towels later I've stumbled upon a rifle under all of that crud. The barrel has rifling, the short lever and drop block function flawlessly, it has a crisp trigger, great wood on the forearm, a rear sight no longer frozen in rust and generally "ain't too bad!"

I took the buttplate off, located the screw inside the hole that mounts the buttstock to the rifle and it won't budge after all this time. Question is, what to do? It's no longer a P.O.S. and it has great possibilites but it has that huge crack and I want to fix it somehow. If I could get that rusted screw out I might be able to clamp the wood and squeeze the crack together and get it to hold with some glue and a couple of countersunk screws. Or should I just use wood filler and let it go?????

Bob,

I bought one of the first ones to come out, from IMA. I was an old fan of "Zulu" and always wanted one. The rifle came (more or less) clean and in decent shape. I've been tempted to roll the dice and get one of the "uncleaned ones (maybe a long lever?) as a Project rifle. Wish ammunition wasn't so danged expensive! They are fun to shoot.

Good luck on restoring. How about some "before and after" pictures?

Bob,

I've done my fair share of butt stock removals and while I'm not familiar with the specific rifle you mention, I recommend you take the time to remove the butt stock bolt.

The Martini Henry has a long bolt that holds the butt stock to the receiver - it sounds like its rusted in place. The bolt has a single slot in its center. You need a screwdriver blade that fits the slot as closely as you can. I made mine from tool steel and ground it to fit. The secret is making the blade almost as wide as the diameter of the hole in which the bolt fits and making the blade have parallel sides that just fit into the slot - its trial and error. Next you need the shank of this screwdriver to have the ability to fit a "T" handle - I found a 5/8" socket worked well on the hex bar. This will give you the fit and the leverage necessary to break the thread free.

I'm not sure if the end of the bolt is visible from inside the receiver but I'd remove the fore stock, and strip the internals out of the lock mechanism anyway. If the bolt head is visible, you could try a good penetrating oil - it can't hurt.

Bob,

It sounds like your friend bought one of the Francotte as is Martini's.

You should be able remove the trigger group and all the internal will be attached. This is significant rifle in Martini Desigh.

A common problem with Martini's is rusty stock bolt. The shaft of the stock bolt gets rusty and the rust swells up in the hole on the stock. Often 4 or 5 inch is rusty and swollen and no about pentrating fluids will penetrate that deep. This could also be the reason for the stock split.

The best you can do is try and get the stock bolt looose.

Put the action in the padded jaws of a vise. The action should be in the vise with the barrel horizontal. With a large heavy flat tip screw driver, preferably a square shaft, try and move the screw. If you can fully remove it the better. If you can move it a little that's good also. Work it in and out increasing the rotation. When you turn the screw out just a bit, take a rubber mallet and tap the butt a bit to loosen things.

Be patient and keep trying.

I have had these stocks rusted on so tight that have had to drill through the side of the stock and cut the bolt. I also had one that even that didn't work and I ended up splitting the stock to get it off.

You do not want to do this with this stock as there is no repleacements.

Rick,

Haven't heard from you for a long while, how you been?

First the forearm. I got the forearm off with little trouble since only one screw and one pin hold it in place. The big surprise was that a lot of the cosmoline was still pliable and that about 40% of the metal under the wood was good and showed a lot of blue. The metal along the edge where the wood and metal come together was a different story, Very bad pitting in that area.

The only markings that I have found are 5.939 etched on the barrel, receiver, middle band and front band. The lever has a row of several markings that are stamped in but I have no idea what they are. :dunno:

As to the buttstock, I did find a screwdriver that was long enough and did exactly fit the slot with no slop. I wrapped an old pair of sweatpants around the stock and placed it in a vise, put the screwdriver firmly into the slot, clamped vise grips on the screwdriver and twisted as hard as I could. Nothing! I took a hammer and hit the screwdriver hard several times trying to jar the threads and break them free but still nothing.

I finally fell back on an old tried and true way of filling cracks (although much smaller cracks) and sanded the stock, collected the dust, mixed it with wood glue, placed a split cardboard paper towel roll in the screwdriver hole and filled the crack a little at a time. Took quite a while but I finally filled the crack all the way to the cardboard roll (someday someone may really scratch their head on that one!) and am letting it dry so I can sand that area and see where I'm at with it.

Kroil. See if you can get some Kroil down there on the screw, and let it soak over night.

Dean (the other one)

I did try the Kroil but it still wouldn't budge, and remembering that one of you had said there are no replacement stocks, I gave up on that idea before I broke the stock. I have it stabilized with a screw at the rear and one in the middle. The mixture of glue and sawdust does have the crack completely sealed and it doesn't show too obviously. The stock and forearm are both sanded and steel wooled and the raw umber tinting color has been applied. Next will come the BLO. I did find some numbers on the stock that have obviously been put in with an awl. The number is 3.84.

I went to the Nepalese website and as far as I can tell the lettering on the cocking lever seems to be Nepalese. Is there a chance that these rifles were actually made for the government of Nepal?

He also got a sling for the rifle. It has a fixed keeper on one end, a sliding keeper in the middle and the other end has four holes and a piece of leather thong. The sling has a crown imprinted into the leather on the end with the holes. Does anyone know how this sling goes on the rifle?

What name did you go by on the old forum Rick?

I always use Double D on the forums or some form of it.

Its just my intials

DD

sling installation:
http://www.martinihrnry.com/slinginstall.htm

woops. let's try that again with correct spelling
Sling Installation

Lets try that again:
Sling Installation

What's going on here ?
My posts disappear then reappear, like I'm watching a Topper movie.
Maybe a cup of coffee ?

Thanks to dogtag for the link and Deano for the emailed info.

I've looked at all the marks that dogtag's link showed for the rifles and this one has none of them. Nothing on the side plates, nothing on the barrel and nothing anywhere except for the 5.939 on the front and rear bands and under the barrel and under the receiver and the unknown markings on the lever that look like they could be Nepalese. It's obviously a Martini Henry short-levered rifle with all the proper parts but none of the proper markings.

Give me some help here please!

IMA and Atlanta Cutlery are both selling the short lever, "as found" rifles. They are known as the "Francotte Patent" with no cocking indicator or receiver markings. I'll email you the webpage from IMA.

Dean (the other one)

Greetings to all. New to this forum but not to collecting. I have ordered 4 so far of the Nepal Martini's. Took a chance on 2 at first figuring a couple of rust buckets would come.I was shocked at the good condition of them after you cut through the crud. I had to order 2 more. 3 of the 4 had origional slings that are still supple. All 4 have decient wood for their age. All of them still have a good deal of finish on the metal. 3 of the 4 had jammed actions. I found out why. There is a metal cleaning rod stop plate that butts up to the reciever that has two wood screws. If the rod is shoved in too far the screws pop out of the old wood and get jammed in the reciever causing the action not to operate. Just take the barrell bands off and drive out the pin on the stock forearm. May take a little wiggling but the front pice will come off. You then can repair the rod stop.I think these are a bargain but saw that the price is fixing to increase 40.00 ea.

Hey Lineman which rifles did you get? Saying you got Nepal Martini's is like saying you got a Winchester, lots of different kinds.

Did you get the Gehendra, the Martini Henry Francotte conversions or regular Martini Henry.

It sounds lke you got a Gehendra but that is assuming....

Got the Gehendra's. Whew ! Just spent all morning cleanning the 3rd one up. Was really gummed up with dirt and grease. Came out nice for the price. Now for a cold 4th of July brewsky. :beerchug:

"...no cocking lever on the right side of the receiver..." That's not a cocking lever. It's a cocked/not cocked indicator. The lever cocks it.
Go here. The Martini-Henry
"...made for the government of Nepal..." Possibly, but the Gurka troopies come from Nepal. Mercs, actually. 28,000 going through the selection process for 200 positions. A bunch you seriously want on your side.
"...the movie Zulu..." Thanks. Had to wait until Saturday night this week. Awfully decent of you. Zulu is the greatest movie ever made. Crank up the sound. YouTube - Zulu - Final Attack
I have a how-to to make reloadable .577-450 cases out of 3/4" brass bar stock with BP load data, if you want it. toheir@hotmail.com

Hi, I too have a Francotte modified, Nepalese Martini Henry style rifle, that I purchased from IMA. I too was amazed how dirty it was but it has come up quite nice. I am in the middle of rubbing down the stock and fore grip. The action comes out in one go, not the same as my Mk1 converted to Mk2 MH, but it is a tidy little package nonetheless, all I had to do was under the front action screw, then gently prise it out - I had given the whole action a jolly good soaking in spray de-greasant. It has all cleaned up well, though the bore is very worn, slight crack in te barrel near the muzzle on the underside and extensive pitting along the fore stock line as mentioned by others. I am sure that it will make a nice display piece which is why I bought it. I believe that these we built by Nepali arms manufacturers who copied the MH and that it is not one of the infamous Kyber pass copies as it does not have any identifying (false) marking and alll the components are well made.

It is covered in some Nepali markings - I am currently an Infantry Training Company Commander at the UK's Infantry Training Centre - my local Gurhka soldiers have had a look at the script, but they say some of the characters are not used anymore. This in my opinion corroborates the authenticity of it's life in the Royal Palaces - rather than a recent copy. The Gurhka soldiers are keen to know my rifles lineage, so they have agreed to consut their friends, families and elders to try to decipher the script - I think it is just the weapon serial numbers and initial thoughts from the boys appear to support this.

My Nepalese MH had a stuck stock bolt and I did the make your own screw driver and use a t handle approach - it worked and it has been removed, which is making the rstoration of the stock easier. I will upload phots once complete - I wish I had taken some pics before I started!!! I am using wire wool and white spirits to remove the grime and cr*p that has acumulated on the wood. I have cleaned the metal with a de-greasing spray and it looks ok. same detail for the bore.

I have two other original MH rifles: one is a Mk1/ Mk2 converted, obtained from IMA - it is a beautiful rifle, in full working order and on my firearms licence (I am a UK resident) and I have a MH Carbine, which I picked up in Afghanistan (Helmand) on my last operational tour there. It is being renovated by a friendly military armourer, as the blueing is completed gone, but otherwise it is a shooter. He has researched the original blueing/ browning cocktail recipe and has made and prepared baths for the purpose, so it should look great once it is done. He also has a Snider converted .577 breech loader of mine, which is also being restored- cant wait to get them back.

So glad I found this forum to chat to like minded folks! I go back to the 'stan next year - looking forward to recovering a bunch more rifles!!!

George

geo1427, how did the restoration turn out. I am curious to see the pictures you have especially a before and after restoration. Please keep us informed with your progress. :thup:

I sent for the Francotte version and it came from IMA with a split stock but they also threw in another stock. I may be able to make one from the two.
A split can be completely separated and when cleaned it can be glued together again under presure to give a strong stock. IMA do have the replacement woodwork for the Martini Mk1and II but they are 250 dollars if you need them.
I prefer the original stocks they just need a bit of repair , if carefully done they look ok.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bob - The Beagle Master

I took the buttplate off, located the screw inside the hole that mounts the buttstock to the rifle and it won't budge after all this time. Question is, what to do? It's no longer a P.O.S. and it has great possibilites but it has that huge crack and I want to fix it somehow. If I could get that rusted screw out I might be able to clamp the wood and squeeze the crack together and get it to hold with some glue and a couple of countersunk screws. Or should I just use wood filler and let it go?????

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Same problem in one of my rifles (less the crack). I pulled the action and found the inside end of the screw had been peened over, probably because it was loose from being removed. I used a small chisel to cut the peened parts off, a Dremel would probably work as well. Using a tire iron ground to fit the slot it then came out easily. I also found the screw had been cracked and crudely welded at one time and I replaced it with an SAE bolt with a slot cut in the head. As I recall a 5/16 standard thread fits but you better check.

Another trick to loosening bolts is to add Acetone to penetrating oil like Kroil or PB Blaster. About 1/3 volume. It is very thin and carries the thicker oil into every crack. Most penetrants don't include it because it evaporates too fast and softens plastic, so if you soak parts with an acetone mix be sure the container is metal and cover it with aluminum foil, tightly. I used the acetone mix on my last batch of Francottes and they all came apart much easier.

Often cracks are caused by the swelling from rust. Best to remove the parts first then fill with an epoxy/wood putty.

I would try not to fill cracks with putty.

Why you may ask?

I worked some years ago with an old carpenter who had been in the Royal Navy for most of his life. Amazing old chap who could turn his hand to anything which required fine craftsmanhip and copied my manager a butt stock for an old SXS that had cracked clean through.

His view was that wood was a living thing, even hundreds of years after being cut down the wood continued to swell, shrink and move. if you understood how this worked with the grain and the cell structure you could correct cracks by reversing the movement.

If you have an open crack, and I mean one you can see into, it may have been caused by rusting of the stock bolt but you can get the wood to relax back to the original shape once you have removed the bolt. If you felt you needed mechanical surety you could then pin it and a thin smear of traditional wood glue would restore the cellular links across the crack.

The best way of doing this is with heat and moisture. I would try aggressive steaming of the wood until it softens and then clamping it in a vice or similair to close the crack. Let it dry for a few days and you may find it a relatively minor cosmetic problem to overcome. Steaming is used in boatbuilding as it gives temporary flexibility of timber by softening the fibres.


The acteone tip sounds good.

First of all - great project! I just recently picked up a Francotte Martini and the buttplate is missing. I am an amateur mold maker/casting hobbyist. I could take an imprint of the butt and try to make my mold based on that imprint, but this would be a little bit of a gamble. I would prefer to have access to an original butt plate to make my mold and match the correct brass type. Does anyone have a butt plate they could allow me to borrow and then send back to you? I know this sounds like a strange request and alot of trust to put into a stranger. I am willing to put a deposit down as well as pay shipping both ways. If the mold specs out, I could produce butt plates for others who are missing it.

jperkins26@hotmail.com

Perksalvage2010:
Don't know if you ever found a buttplate to copy, but original MH ones are available from IMA: Original British Martini-Henry Rifle Butt Plate MkII- Smooth ima-usa.com
The Martini-Henry Mks I-III, Gehendra, and Francotte rifles all have virtually the same buttplate, just with different inspection marks.