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My granddad acquired an old Remington Model 4 .25-10 rolling block rifle. I know it's not a milsurp but didn't figure it would hurt to ask. Does anyone know of any reproduction ammunition is available for this anywhere? I believe the ammo was discontinued back in the 40's. I can't find any vintage ammunition for it and I don't know if anyone makes any special order reproduction or anything.
Never even heard of that chambering before. Rimfire or centerfire? Theres a gun show in Columbia this coming weekend and sometimes theres a fellow by the name of William Widner (IIRC) who specializes in obsolete ammo. The only other sources that come to mind is Buffalo Arms or Old Western Scrounger. Good luck. -VH
I believe the .25-10 was the Stevens .25 rimfire round.
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Originally Posted by Johnny Peppers
Not quite. It was apparently developed by Remington as an "improved" Stevens. The dimensions appear to be slightly different. See "The American Cartridge" P.66
As a rimfire cartridge, it is extremely difficult to make a substitute - fireforming something else is not going to work.:lol: But from the dimensions, if I had to do it - and I'm not volunteering! - I would start off with something on the lines of a Winchester Magnum Rimfire, inserted in a brass sleeve to fit the 25-10 chamber. If you are lucky with the geometry, then the striker on the 25-10 will strike and ignite the WMR in the sleeve. If not, then some further work is required on the striker. But probably it will work with a little fettling, and the WMR bullet will scoot down the barrel. Accuracy will be awful.
Next problem: the bullet is to small for the bore. And if it is jacketed, it is far too hard to give any worthwhile obturation to fit the bore. Massive gas blow-by. So you need lead bullets with a hardness of something like 15+ BH and the appropriate diameter. Time for a special mold.... etc etc. :move eek:
In the end, the best answer is going to be turned sleeves fitted with 6mm "Flobert" caps at one end and your home-cast bullets at the other, loaded with black powder. The recess for the caps can then be milled excentrically if the striker cannot otherwise reach the primer and you do not want to alter the striker. Of course, that means that the cartridges can only be inserted with a specific orientation...
Lads, this is not B-S I'm spouting here. I've done it for a revolver that fires 44 Henry rimfire. Of course, if I had found a S&W Russian that fired a c.f. cartridge for 200 euros I would have bought that instead and saved myself the bother, but I had to use what I found. Which was r.f.
In short, you need to be a dedicated and experienced reloader with a well-equipped workshop and/or a very deep pocket.
Possible? Yes?
Worth the bother? Only you can answer that.
For me, the answer would be "Only if it is a very special type that I wish to use in competitions for historic firearms".
If it is not regarded as a rare type to be preserved in the original chambering, then I would simply take a look at the option of rechambering to 25-20. An RB is easy to strip down so that a gunsmith can insert a chambering reamer. The chamber is much more accessible than on a bolt-action rifle, and it should not be necessary to separate the barrel from the action body.
:wave:
Patrick
It's the .25 Stevens "Long" round, as there was a "Short" version developed later with about half the powder capacity. The Short version used approximately 5 grains of black powder, and the Long version used approximately 10 grains of black powder.
Or then again, maybe Remington has no idea what they made.
Model 4 Centerfire Rolling Block Rifle
You might consider converting it to centerfire and reloading your own. If you live in the states, you might contact the folks at BuffaloArms. Their online catalog shows several different .25 caliber shells that may work for you.
john
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Peppers
A good question, since they have decribed it as "Centerfire" and append a list of rimfire cartridges:lol:
Nevertheless, surely the simple answer would be ream the chamber out to 25-20 and convert the block to centerfire?
:wave:
Patrick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick
Feeling right frisky are we?
But it might work. Even in that tiny action.
I appreciate all the responses, but there will be no reaming, conversions, or alterations of any kind on this piece. We like to keep our vintage weapons 100% original as it is. But if .25-10 is interchangeable with 25 Steven, someone hammer the gavel on the verdict with that. I don't want to try it if it's not meant to be. Thanks for the supply sources too, I'll check to see if they can get their hands on some for me or not.
I contacted Buffalo Arms asking about the .25-10 ammo and they didn't know what I was talking about but suggested this: Buffalo Arms - Product Detail - 25 Remington Ammunition 117 Grain JSP Box of 20 - $32.00
Is this right or is it something else?
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Originally Posted by jmoore
Well JM, I don't know if you are feeling frisky, but speaking for myself, the spirit is willing even if the flesh is a bit wobbly. I think the conversion would be simpler than making a stock of "hand-carved" cartridge cases.
:wave:
Patrick
25 Remington is an entirely different animal. It's just a rimless version of the 25-35 Winchester. The 25 Stevens long looks like a scaled up 22 magnum, more or less.
Some of the cartridge companies will occasionally make a special run of obsolete rim fire ammunition, but I don't ever recall the .25 Stevens being one of them.
Personally I don't think the small No. 4 Remington RB is up to the .25-20 Winchester round.
The 25 rimfires have been gone for a long time. 40 years ago I looked for almost a year for 25 Stevens and it was impossible to find then so good luck trying to find it now and if by some stroke of luck you do find it then there is the fact that there will most likely be a lot more duds then good rounds. The last loading was at the beginning of WW2 by Remington and it has not been available since then.
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Originally Posted by MeatMarket
I appreciate that. I have the same attitude, which is why I am possibly the only person in this country shooting a .44 rf revolver. But that seems to leave you with the arduous do-it-yourself option as the only possibility if you want to shoot the rifle. Any rf ammo you can find in obsolete calibers is also going to be something that collectors would rather not see destroyed, even if it will still fire (which is doubtful).
So DIY cartridges or wallhanger? It's your choice.
:wave:
Patrick
I'm not sure if my granddad wants to shoot it or not. If so, it would just be a one time thing just for the sake of doing it. I know that he mainly just wants the ammunition as a collectible item.